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-   -   Honda Accord V6 AT Transmission Failure | Repair Vs new gearbox at 50% discount (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/288255-honda-accord-v6-transmission-failure-repair-vs-new-gearbox-50-discount-2.html)

I'm only giving you this advice because you seem to know at least some engineering basics and aren't afraid to get your hands dirty. This is a good start.

Here's the gist of my thought process:
Everything can be fixed. Nothing is impossible. But the knowledge and the skills are rare, hard-earned, and tough to find. Your task right now is to see this through while minimising cost, identifying smart mechanics, and deciding which way to go.

Phase 1: Research
- Imagine that the car is sitting in your driveway and you have to fix it all alone. What would you do? Do that. Do some serious research online as to what commonly fails with these transmissions. Make a list of what all could go wrong. Try and find pictures of what failed parts look like. Catalogue the pics and have them handy.
- Get the car OBD scanned and start from there, too. What codes is the car showing right now? How are such codes usually tackled? What could they possibly indicate? How have other people tackled these problems?
You could use generic OBD readers but going to Honda for this is ideal. It shouldn't cost you much (Hyundai SVC charged me ₹200 to scan the Sonata for example).
Get to know your car (and specifically your trans) inside out. What oil is used, what capacity, operating temperature, etc. Buy the service manual for your car (steal it from Honda if you can!). You can also check out this link, which has service manuals for '05 Accords (USDM, but then the model sold in India was the US spec one).
https://charm.li/Honda/2005/Accord%20V6-3.0L/

Phase 2: Choosing where to go
Meet with the actual people who are going to be working on your car at both Sehmbi and Honda. Be firm with the managers that this requires grassroot level discussions and so you need to speak with them directly. Be blunt.
Have a freewheeling discussion with both mechs. How would they start diagnosing? What do they think has gone wrong? Tell them you know that these transmissions often face these issues, so have you ever had an Accord come in with trans trouble? How did they fix it then?

Listen to every single word they have to say, and take mental notes about their approach. Are they being scientific? Do they have access to the tools needed for the job? If the clutch packs are gone (example) how will they source new ones? Do they have the patience to do this job? Does it look like they'll mind if the car spends the next 15 days here?
What are the exact parts that Honda has ordered new for another customer but hasn't used? Ask Honda that you want to see them yourself. Go there and see. Check out the part numbers. Run those part numbers online - do they match your car?

Phase 3: Actually getting the work done
Be pertinent about every single detail. And bear in mind that your work has only just begun once you've decided which way to go. I would personally go there every single day and have them tell me what they did that day. I would expect them to walk me through the build as it occurs live, not hiding a single detail. I would expect them to provide reasons if they deviate from the course of action they laid out to me when I gave them the car - and it had better be a good reason.
Compare the failed parts with the pictures you stored earlier. Is it a wear and tear failure or did something major happen in there? Do they really need replacement?

Remember, if something goes wrong, these people can bring up a thousand reasons for not honouring your warranty. Assume you take it in writing - even that is not airtight. You'll have to approach courts if they don't honour the paper - I can only imagine the monetary and time costs of that route.
The car is ultimately your responsibility and its in your best interest to know every detail inside out. Don't be afraid to push other people to keep you in the loop.

... Just realised I spent nearly half an hour typing this out. DM me if you need more help and we'll connect over a call going forward.

Rooting for you and the Accord. Cheers

1. Negotiate the price of new transmission and new TC with the first garage. As they are unlikely to sell this to the next customer immediately, you can negotiate a better discount.
2. Get the transmission fitted at the SEHMBI garage as you have already given your car there.
3. This way you keep both the garages happy for your future works.
4. You have peace of mind for the upcoming years.

P.S: If you know that there is this particular issue with Transmission and TC with this model, would it make sense to sell your car once repaired and buy a more reliable car? Honda's as we all know is expensive with parts. Choice is yours.

Yes, in an ideal world I would start the process with Honda immediately, however finances are a bit of a tricky situation. I will speak to my dad about all the options and make the final call. Thank you

Yes I’m going to do some more negotiations with honda, sehmbi seems reliable enough but i trust honda over them considering they’ve done a similar job on my car before and also in a review I read about sehmbi they damaged an engine mount while fixing the transmission and left the car really dirty.

Selling the car doesn’t make sense because once listed with transmission repair it will greatly drop in value. Already being 18 years old it won’t sell for much so let’s say i get maybe 2-3 lakhs for it, it would be so much more expensive to buy a new car which my dad clarified is not happening.

I will keep checking and doing research and keep everyone updated. Thanks

Wow, I can’t thank you enough for the time you spent writing this and trying to help me out. I’ll address your points in short, if i do need more advice i will surely send you a pm with my number.

I did a decent amount of research on my own, I am already aware of things like operating temperature, fluid type and what fails commonly, which is the clutch packs and the torque converter.

The car is throwing no codes apparently according to the honda technician they even attached the code scanner receipt. I spoke to sehmbi and they said they will do an overhaul of the transmission, when I asked for more information he simply said clutches and all and didn’t give more information. I will press him more after he gives me his diagnosis. Meanwhile sehmbi themselves have said they will need 15 days to finish the job.

I saw the part numbers on the estimation and they match with my car. So no issues there, if my dad requests me to look at the parts from honda in person i’ll be sure to do that.

You’ve mentioned a lot more specific details to watch out for as well and i’ll be sure to do that. Being blunt is something i’m not too good at. I will try and change that for this fiasco if dealing with. Thank you so much once again for taking out the time to help with this. I’ll be sure to pm you if need be. Cheers.

Hey everyone, A quick update.
I just recieved pictures of the transmission and torque converter offered by honda and i’m not feeling too optimistic about them. The torque converter looks fine but the transmission seems used. Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in here and give me an opinion. My dad isn’t happy based on what he’s seeing. I think the torque converter looks good and at 50 percent off could be a great way to Frankenstein the rebuild from sehmbi. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

Both the components are used, make no mistake. Seems to me like they had someone come in with a failed trans and the dealership went scouting to the scrap market. How generous of them! And to think they're offering these to you at 50% of the new price - how kind! Such a dependable service center. /s

It's more crucial than ever at this point to open up the trans and perform a root cause analysis. Only once you know what's wrong should you make ANY purchases. It could be that the TC isn't even at fault.

I had a quick word with my mechanic, and he gave me a suggestion that actually makes some sense: convert the car into a manual. You might be able to find a trans from an I4 MT Accord.

Your challenges, as I envision them, would be to adapt the gearbox, make it fit the car, add a clutch system, and modify the cabin with the new shifter lever and the pedal.

That said, first you'd need to check if the car runs fine on the stock ECU while running the manual trans. If your car is even slightly drivable, I would disconnect the AT electronics from the rest of the car and try to drive it, see what error codes show up, if the car goes into limp-home mode, etc.

If it looks like the ECU doesn't really mind not having a transmission, you just need to figure out the mechanical bits of the transplant.

I know for a fact that the Sonata's ECU doesn't really mind if you use it with an MT (tBHP member 1self is in my city and has done it). It shows errors on the dash but the car runs fine. I also know for a fact that, with the right software you can just flip a switch and tell the Siemens ECU that the car is MT! Oh well.

Good luck - you'll need it.

Yeah this is unbelievable I genuinely can’t believe they were trying to trick me, they even sent the picture in full confidence. Incredible. What thoughts do you have on the integrity of this used set of trans and tc, if i call them out and get it for dirt cheap say under a lakh or maybe even lower would it be a feasible option? Or should I continue with the rebuild like you said and have them tell me what components have failed. They have told me i’ll have a diagnosis by them by tomorrow evening as they are still testing the car. I hope the TC is still good as it will majorly simplify things.

I was doing research about this as an option.
The problem would first be getting it to fit as it’s not a direct bolt on. there would need to be a bell housing swap or some sort of bracket and I have no idea where and how to source that from, even if i could there would be the issue of the starter motor and it having to be relocated. Next comes the ecu, people in america have swapped the auto on this for the 6 speed manual but that’s a direct swap and the car was made for it because it was tuned for the V6. I haven’t come across any articles of a k24 tranny swap onto a j30 engine. I’ll do some more digging on this and see what i can find. Overall seems like a big project and i’m not sure who’s going to be willing to take it. Thanks for the advice. If you have anymore thoughts or questions i’ll send a pm with my phone number right now to make this conversing a lot easier. Take care.

I am a big fan of keeping cars for a long time, while they're in top condition.

I think you might be taking on quite a bit of risk by ignoring the various oil leaks you've mentioned. The large expense on the gearbox might become a sunk cost if the leaks worsen.

My suggestion to you would be to either:
(1) Get the gearbox AND the oil leaks fixed Or
(2) Replace the car

My personal experience is that oil leaks can be very tough to diagnose and stop. You will need to find a competent mechanic, and the work might be very invasive. I was in your situation a few years back, when I bought my dream car used. I sank money into bringing it to top condition without fully addressing the oil leaks. Ultimately 7 months down the line I had to sell it due to the leaks, and ended up picking an ultra clean piece of the same car.

I would suggest that you don't consider this as a cost decision of 80k++ (for the transmission), but rather like 2L to get the leaks addressed too.

You would be absolutely correct in most situations, however the leaks i have are from the power steering rack, which is notorious for leaking in this generation accord, the transmission and the rear main seal. Everything else is solid. I once saw someone say, “On a honda everything will fail before the engine does”. But i will keep your words in mind if the costs start piling up. Thanks for the advice.

If the extra cost is not a problem, this is definitely the best option. As far as reliability is concerned, replacement is always better than repair.

This would’ve been the way to go, but if you notice the pictures in the update, the transmission parts honda is offering are very clearly used. I don’t know how to get a history on them. I will lowball the heck out of honda now that I’ve seen these are used parts. If they come down on the price significantly it’ll be a matter of rebuild vs used parts.

Did they confirm if this is a used tranny or new one? This is what a brand new gear box from the factory should look like. This is a Hyundai Verna replacement gearbox for a bad manual transmission.

Now we know why there's a 50% discount. The dealership probably got it from the scrap market dirt cheap. Maybe push or more discount citing that this is an old box and you don't know how much KMS it has been used for. Alternatively you could try and source a transmission from a totaled/scrapped accord and have the dealership install it for you.

SEHMBI to me seems hit or miss, some on the forum have had good experiences and some not so much. If things go south you are on your own here. With Honda you can perhaps get the OEM involved for solutions.

I'd rather go with Honda here because you seem to be convinced that they know what they're doing & their workmanship is something you attest to.

I still can't believe Honda ASC is offering customers used/scavenged parts and asking 50% money. Which Honda ASC is this?

If it was a brand-new part, going with Honda ASC would have made sense with this 50% offer. With Honda, customers can be better assured of the technician's knowledge/abilities and their tools. However, in this case of getting used parts, if there are issues post repair, I dont think Honda ASC will warrant it rather they will ask customer to bear any damages and costs.

Going with SEHMBI also is a hit or miss. They cant honor any issues post repairs and will ask customer to bear with damages. And their skills and tools used we cant be sure.

I feel both has its cons. Best to tread cautiously.

Cheers,
narayanang76

I don’t think it’s fair to judge honda too harshly on this. After all it was not an official honda quote/offer. This was proposed to me by the senior technician off the record. If anything the blame falls on him. I have rejected the offer and proceeded with the transmission overhaul from sehmbi. I will keep everyone updated as time goes on.