[vishy76]

VW Tiguan Haldex oil change & the ASC’s incompetency

Those who read my posts will know I own a 2019 Tiguan 2.0 TDI. The car had done around 43,000 km and the DSG oil and Haldex fluid hadn’t been changed. The only niggle with the Haldex was that there was a slight stutter from the rear inner wheel when making tight turns with throttle input sometimes. This is a known symptom which indicates the Haldex fluid needs changing and the Haldex pump strainer also possibly needs cleaning.

The working of a Haldex has been elaborated on very well on the net, so I will just stick to the periodic service requirements for the diff. The differential at the back has two parts, both with their own oil circuits:

• One part is for the Haldex hydraulic circuit. It comprises the clutch packs and the motor. The motor essentially engages and disengages the diff. This part uses a hydraulic fluid also called AWD/coupling oil
  
• The second part has the traditional differential with what I believe is a crown pinion pair. This portion uses 75W90 GL-5 grade oil which one will find in most hypoid gear applications. It’s also called gear oil in VW speak

VW doesn’t prescribe an interval for the diff oil. But I believe 7-8 years and 80,000 km is enough life. The Haldex oil however has an interval of 2-4 years depending on the type of car (TDI, Allspace, Elegance) and the oil used (there are 2-3 variations of the Haldex oil according to VIN).

I rang up the local dealer and told him I wish to book my car in for both these items and possibly the rear brake pads too. I was surprised to find that Haldex oil was not in stock. I was asked to ‘wait’ 8-10 days for it to be restocked. My dad has very irregular usage so the car wasn’t available again after 10 days. This occurred 2-3 times before I finally got frustrated and pulled some strings to have the parts arranged at the Ahmedabad ASC.

I was the first to reach the ASC at 9 am in the morning after driving down 150 km from Baroda. The SA was very keen on upselling an oil change with all filters saying it was due and I should do it considering I have already spent so much on the ATF and Haldex. However, I bluntly told him that I am not a fan of the Shell branded oil VW uses and I would much rather do it elsewhere. Then came the real downer, I was told I couldn’t stand on the shopfloor. Again, I pulled some strings and ensured that I was allowed to.

By the time all this drama had concluded, the technician had already done an underbody inspection and changed all 3 wiper blades (something I had demanded). Fair enough.

Then the DSG oil and filter was changed which took around an hour and a half. So far so good I said to myself.

By this time, I had started to let my guard down believing these folks knew what they were doing unlike some FNGs I had seen before. And why wouldn’t they? They were trained VW technicians, apparently using the best equipment, OEM parts and I had paid top dollar to have this work done.

However, when the time came to do the Haldex fluid change, all my hopes that these chaps would do a fair job came crashing down. Firstly, the technician very confidently opened the drain plug at the rear near the axle flange to drain oil. I made two observations which set the alarm bells ringing:

• The oil smelt like it had sulphur in it. I have worked enough with gearboxes and gear oils to recognise them based on smell alone. This was the first evidence that got me thinking it might be diff oil that has been drained
  
• The oil was also very thick, very much unlike the Haldex fluid I have seen and felt which is much thinner

I immediately asked the technician to stop and get me the new Haldex oil. I asked him to smell the Haldex oil and the drained (at this point unidentified) oil. He agreed they smelt different, but reasoned it could be because the old oil is ‘burnt’.

I still had a look of denial on my face. I wasn’t doubly sure who was right and who was wrong, but one thing I have learnt is to always double check if even an ounce of doubt exists in such cases. I stood my ground and asked the tech to check his parts database, while I tried pulling up a diagram on the net myself. I also contacted Tiguan whatsapp group member Aditya Venkatesh. He immediately confirmed my doubt that the diff oil or in VW parlance gear oil has been drained, not the Haldex oil. I also spoke to a couple of other techs on the shop floor, and both claimed that there was only ‘one’ oil for the rear diff.

At this point, I just wanted my car back. A fear crept in as to what would happen if these folks didn’t agree to what I was saying and went ahead with replacing the wrong oil. It took the tech 15-20 minutes to pull up the diagram on his VW ELSA manual indicating what I had insisted on is correct. Here’s a screenshot below from the net indicating the same diagram which is present on ELSA:


The drain plug that had been opened in my case:


He agreed a mistake had been made. I also contacted BHPian Viraat13 and asked him if the new oil being put in was the Haldex oil. I wanted to double check everything before proceeding. I had zero faith in the dealer at this point. Viraat assured me that Haldex oil only comes in 850ml bottles and since the bottle I had adhered to that requirement, it had to be Haldex fluid.

With the primary confusion cleared, there was now a secondary issue. What should be done with the diff fluid? Shall I change it now that I have drained it anyways? The dealer didn’t give me a choice. They didn’t have it in stock. I had to reuse the old fluid. Fortunately, the fluid was in very good shape. It had no metal debris, smelt perfect and had the usual pale yellow colour. After refilling it, the Haldex drain plug was cracked open and the hydraulic oil was drained. I again asked the tech to smell the old (now Haldex) oil and the new. He agreed both smelt the exact same. The car took in around 700-800ml before fluid started overflowing from the fill port.

After all this, the service advisor had the shamelessness to come and tell me that I had seen the Haldex fluid change and that I should retire back to the customer lounge now. I also raised this issue with the Service manager, but he was more interested in upselling an oil change, filters and even a roadside assistance package.

This experience raises serious questions about VW’s tech training and what really happens on the shopfloor:

• What if I, just like any obedient owner, had been in the customer lounge? I am sure my diff would have been ruined
  
• The Tiguan isn’t precisely a unicorn. It obviously isn’t as common as a Virtus/Taigun, but Haldex oil change intervals are as low as 2-3 years now. How can the techs not know how to do this job?
  
• Most techs didn’t even know that there are two distinct oils at the back in the diff. I was shocked to hear this

Additionally, this doesn’t absolve VW itself from taking part responsibility. As is obvious from the diagrams and images, the fill and drain ports for the Haldex oil and differential oil are very close to each other. Although this isn’t an excuse for a VW ASC technician, other mechanics might get confused.

This is a word of caution to all owners who have Haldex equipped VAGs. Ensure that the oil drained is the correct spec and the oil being filled in is also correct. DO NOT leave anything to doubt. Haldex hydraulic fluid is meant for the clutch packs. It will instantly ruin the differential gear pair and bearings causing diff lock up. Conversely, differential gear oil is only meant for hypoid gears. It will ruin the Haldex electric pump motor, NRV and the clutch packs.

Perhaps, the only silver lining on this dark cloud is that the diff has now gone silent. The slight stutter I would face sometimes when taking sharp turns with throttle input has vanished. The gear shifts have also tightened up slightly.

I am not exactly sure if I should be happy about the entire episode though, especially considering I paid Rs. 53,000 for this. Rs. 33,000 for the Haldex and DSG oil change alone and the rest for rear brake pads, wiper blades, a key battery, windshield washer tank cap and brake bleeding too. And to think that the Manager and SA still wanted to upsell me a service, wash and RSA in the face of all this. Sigh.

It seems I am better off buying tools and doing this myself henceforth.

[Jeroen]

Thanks for sharing. Just one other thought: when changing oil on items such as gearboxes and differentials you should always open the filler plug first before opening the drain plug!

Very simple reason, you want to make sure you can get that filler plug out before letting the old oil out! I always use this simple procedure. And it has saved my bacon more than once. See my “fiddling with cars thread”. I had my Mini on the ramp at my friend Bernd place for a quick gearbox oil change. I could not get the filler plug out. If I had already drained the oil, I would not have been able to get new oil back in.

Jeroen

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thanks for sharing. Just one other thought: when changing oil on items such as gearboxes and differentials you should always open the filler plug first before opening the drain plug!

Very simple reason, you want to make sure you can get that filler plug out before letting the old oil out! I always use this simple procedure. And it has saved my bacon more than once. See my “fiddling with cars thread”. I had my Mini on the ramp at my friend Bernd place for a quick gearbox oil change. I could not get the filler plug out. If I had already drained the oil, I would not have been able to get new oil back in.

Jeroen

You have made a very pertinent point. In fact, I do the exact same when working on my old Fiat too.

However, expecting even basic professionalism from these chaps seems to be futile. I just wanted to get the job done and have my car back. At one point, I was also contemplating putting the old oil back and just taking the car with me without doing the Haldex.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Thanks for sharing!

This is precisely why, despite falling head over heels for the Tiguan and Kodiaq, I still went ahead and bought an Innova Hycross. Technically inclined customers like you who are particular about observing the work being done and actually pointing out when things aren’t being done correctly are a rarity. Most of us would, having faith in the company authorised dealership, leave the car at their mercy, believing it to be in good hands.

But having seen the ground reality of recruitment and training at these dealerships, I concluded that it is best to go with a product in which there isn’t much to ruin in the first place.

Even at Mercedes-Benz dealerships, the kind of labour that works on the shop floor isn’t always well trained. They are the typical young lads you’d find working with your local ustaad mechanic, and have no model specific training. I once caught a glance of them working on my car, and saw them being very ham-handed with it. I got a rear power window switch replaced. Anyone could have done it, but I went to the dealership particularly because I didn’t want the trim to be damaged. Guess what? When my car came back, it turned out that they had yanked it with a flat headed screw driver and damaged the door armrest. Best to stick with independent specialist garages who actually know what they are doing.

[SilverSmoke]

Got Haldex fluid changed some 6 months back - no issues for now. I was there standing close to my Kodiaq but I had no idea of two fluids. Hoping they did it right way.

I believe DQ 381 also has two fluid compartments, one for hydraulics - solenoids & one for clutches. Service supervisor dumbly argued with me DSG takes engine oil from oil sump hence it doesn't need a change.

[lemedico]

Even with the cock ups, I'm surprised your Haldex servicing was supposedly straightforward, unlike as shown in this video. Haldex chapter starts at around 12:20

https://youtu.be/tdrh9uYOeL0?si=KUkLYTG4C1zJKlqz

Prerak Kataria has to get the stuff arranged from foreign vendors, and with long shipping times. I'm assuming the hardware on his car and your VW are the same

Your local VW garage's servicemen should watch this video, and others on the channel, to learn how to do a good job on a VAG car.

[ike]

Originally Posted by vishy76

However, I bluntly told him that I am not a fan of the Shell branded oil VW uses and I would much rather do it elsewhere.

Any particular reason why you avoid the VW branded shell Oil?

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by lemedico

Even with the cock ups, I'm surprised your Haldex servicing was supposedly straightforward, unlike as shown in this video. Haldex chapter starts at around 12:20

https://Youtu.be/tdrh9uYOeL0?si=KUkLYTG4C1zJKlqz

Prerak Kataria has to get the stuff arranged from foreign vendors, and with long shipping times. I'm assuming the hardware on his car and your VW are the same

Your local VW garage's servicemen should watch this video, and others on the channel, to learn how to do a good job on a VAG car.

Prerak's car has a much older diff in terms of age and it's possibly one gen older than my Tiguan too. Issue with that Haldex is the fact that it was introduced in India at a time when nobody knew anything about Haldex service including ASCs. Lots of Yetis and Superb VR6 AWDs suffered due to poor Haldex maintenance.

The same has happened in the video. If you change Haldex oil on time, you generally don't need to remove the pump and clean the strainer for 2-3 fluid changes. But since it wasn't done, the pump strainer got choked, eventually starving the pump and leading to failure.

He had to source the pump gaskets from abroad since most ASCs frown when it comes to even ordering these.

Originally Posted by ike

Any particular reason why you avoid the VW branded shell Oil?

I have tried it in my Jetta before and didn't find it great. I prefer using Fuchs or even Rowe oil.

[1.2GT3GT]

@vishy76, please check the below link. I'm not sure whether I have selected the exact same model that you have, please correct if required.

https://partsfinder.bilsteingroup.co...s%2C+Chemicals

Almost all the fluids that you might need seem to be listed in that link: DCT oil and filter, Haldex oil, differential oil, etc.

[Raz]

Hi Vishy76

Can you please let me know which ASC where you getting your vehicle serviced at?

Originally Posted by vishy76

I am not exactly sure if I should be happy about the entire episode though, especially considering I paid Rs. 53,000 for this. Rs. 33,000 for the Haldex and DSG oil change alone and the rest for rear brake pads, wiper blades, a key battery, windshield washer tank cap and brake bleeding too. And to think that the Manager and SA still wanted to upsell me a service, wash and RSA in the face of all this. Sigh.

It seems I am better off buying tools and doing this myself henceforth.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by 1.2GT3GT

@vishy76, please check the below link. I'm not sure whether I have selected the exact same model that you have, please correct if required.

https://partsfinder.bilsteingroup.co...s%2C+Chemicals

Almost all the fluids that you might need seem to be listed in that link: DCT oil and filter, Haldex oil, differential oil, etc.

I have local distributors who can supply these. No point importing these with all the customs and import duties here.

Originally Posted by Raz

Hi Vishy76

Can you please let me know which ASC where you getting your vehicle serviced at?

I got all this done at VW Ahmedabad (Narol).

[1.2GT3GT]

Originally Posted by vishy76

I have local distributors who can supply these. No point importing these with all the customs and import duties here.

To clarify, I’ve bought parts and consumables from Febi Bilstein distributors here in my region. I didn’t have to import them myself.

It is good if you already have access to local distributors. Do they provide you with Volkswagen items or other brand alternatives?

[1.2GT3GT]

If you are looking for detailed repair manuals, you can access them through this site with paid subscriptions for as little as 7 euros for one hour of access. One hour should be enough to download all the PDFs for your model.

https://volkswagen.erwin-store.com/e...owCarRepair.do