premium vs normal fuel during run-in period of the car

binoyjude · 7th April 2009, 01:48

I think the premium fuel is just ways of making more profit for the OIL companies.My uncle who is in IOL told me that their is not much difference.And more over normal cars do not need premium fuel.
What i think its just like Energy boosters.Once you car get addicted to it.I am sure you cant Avoid it

Roy.S · 7th April 2009, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by carboy

Psychological - you are paying more money. Hence you feel it is runningbetter. This is pretty normal.It's like people buying expensive wires for audio systems & feeling that it improves the sound.

At lower speeds during city drives I feel that premium fuel offers no significant advantages but on the highway the difference is noticeable esp at triple digit speeds.
And better wires do improve the sound quality- both in home audios and car systems. This has been discussed in:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...k-wires-7.html

RajeshK · 7th April 2009, 20:00

Oil companies have also been unable to explain how they reached the price mechanism. MRTPC asked the companies to "clarify the quantitive difference between normal fuel and branded fuel along with supportive documents". The query failed to get the companies to furnish anything more than letters from additive suppliers in support of their claim. While the suppliers, the Singapore branch of Chevron and Oronite, spoke about benefits of branded fuel, it has failed to impress the commission.

Read the whole article at -> Does branded petrol really give you that extra mile? - India Business - Business - The Times of India

carboy · 7th April 2009, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy.S

At lower speeds during city drives I feel that premium fuel offers no significant advantages but on the highway the difference is noticeable esp at triple digit speeds.
And better wires do improve the sound quality- both in home audios and car systems. This has been discussed in:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...k-wires-7.html

I just skimmed through a few posts in the thread - I am pretty well
convinced that thick lamp cord (which is very cheap) is as good as any
expensive wire.

Dr.Sumit Bhatti · 7th April 2009, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RajeshK

Oil companies have also been unable to explain how they reached the price mechanism.

Please go through my explanation in detail starting around post #69 http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1199678 and then work your way through the various links to other similar threads.

Let me know your conclusions.

Gansan · 30th July 2009, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think the situation also depends on whether you are in a Euro II or Euro III city. In a Euro II city normal petrol is 87RON while E-III petrol is 91RON. IOC-XP is 93RON. Other premium fuels RONs are not specified. I am keeping 97RON out of this discussion since it is far more expensive.

Sir,
The manual of my brand new Alto recommends usage of "Unleaded fuel with a RON of 87 or higher". Going by what you mention, Chennai being a Euro III city, even normal unleaded must be 91 RON. I am using Shell premium (which may be about 93 RON) since I feel it makes the engine run smoother, as I have been using this for my bike for a long time.

Since the operative word here seems to be "87 or higher", how can higher RON + additives harm the engine as some members seem to fear? Can you kindly throw some light on this? I would like to continue with Shell Premium if it will not harm the engine in any way-even if it does not offer more mileage. My usage of the car is not much, so the extra cost does not matter.

At the time of taking delivery the sales guy told me to use normal petrol. When I queried about premium fuel, he said I can use it if I wish, but it was not necessary.

ImmortalZ · 30th July 2009, 22:13

The argument against premium fuels is that it is not better petrol. Just additives mixed in. Not all engines and their components respond to additives well, especially diesels. I'm not aware if Shell Premium is higher octane or just like PSU premium fuel, which is normal fuel + additives. These additives do not enhance the octane rating of the fuel and thus from a fuel quality perspective, it is no better. You can even say that they are worse since it is no longer "pure" fuel.

Either way, if your engine is not designed to use higher octane fuel, there is no point in pumping in higher RON petrol. It is not going to make your engine any smoother or make more power or whatever unless there is something wrong with it. It's just a placebo effect. If your engine doesn't like the additives, you're gonna end up with problems. Manufacturers like BMW go as far as to void warranty on part failures caused by additives in premium fuel.

rr_zen · 30th July 2009, 22:32

The safest bet would be to stick to regular fuel. I was a hardcore fan of premium fuels and have my car filled up everytime with Speed. After 4 plus years and with all the knowledge I gained from TBHP, I decided to to switch to regular fuel. It was twin treat for me not only with spending less on fuel but also with the car returning a better fuel average.

mobike008 · 30th July 2009, 23:41

OT: Never filled up in a Shell outlet. Just wanted to know if they have diesel too? If yes, normal diesel is available and is the price same as other companies?

Bubby · 31st July 2009, 00:19

I will keep it simple. I own a Petrol as well as a Diesel car and from the very beginning I have been using Premium qualities of both the fuels. To me premium fuels have always given better FE values.
Once I tried filling both my cars with normal fuels, the FE decreased for both the cars by 2kmpl, so if by spending 5 & 2rs extra/l I get 2 extra kms then why should I fill normal fuels.

TRAUMASURG · 31st July 2009, 00:29

Follow the owner's manual and manufacturer's recommendations If your car is designed to run on regular gas use regiular there is no advantage for using premium except throw money.On the other hand if your car is designed to use premium and instead you use regular you will notice engine knock and if car is equipped with catalytic converter as required in the West it can be damaged and will result in expensive repair

Bubby · 31st July 2009, 00:50

I will keep it simple. I own a Petrol as well as a Diesel car and from the very beginning I have been using Premium qualities of both the fuels. To me premium fuels have always given better FE values.
Once I tried filling both my cars with normal fuels, the FE decreased for both the cars by 2kmpl, so if by spending 5 & 2rs extra/l I get 2 extra kms then why should I fill normal fuels.

Gansan · 31st July 2009, 06:31

@TRAUMASURG
My vehicle manual recommends 87 RON or higher. The premium fuel may be same RON as normal unleaded or a bit higher. It may additionally contain some additives for cleaning the injectors and fuel system. I like to use it since I feel it gives me a smoother ride, and also the probability of adulteration is lesser as compared to normal fuel. I just want to ensure it can't cause any harm in a new engine, and don't mind the additional cost as my car usage is very low anyway.

Found this on the Hindustan Petroleum site:
Power - Our Offerings - Retail(Petrol Pumps etc.) :: Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Limited

sgiitk · 31st July 2009, 09:46

I have a feeling that the situation may differ between Euro III cities and others. In EIII cities regular is 91ON and in EII cities 87ON. While IOC XP is 93On everywhere, there is no information on the other PSUs permium fuels.

Thus in a EIII city you are getting the same, but with additives, whose role is a matter of debate. In an EII city if you use XP you have an Octane Advantage.

I must qualify - apparently a new car has lower Octane requirements
In general the incidence of adulteration is lower in Premium Fuels.

Note one thing: As per the EIII (and if I remember correctly BSIII) specs Premium should be 95ON. This may be the reason IOC calls it Petrol with additives and not premium in their billboards in these cities.

toll gate · 31st July 2009, 10:01

Premium Gas has a higher octane rating. It is slower to explode giving a longer duration push on the piston resulting in less "pinging", faster acceleration, more power, and ultimately better performance.

Much of the value depends on the engine it's put into. If the engine is designed to use it then it does add a little bit to the performance, and it is less wearing on the engine, but the cost usually exceeds the value received.

Much of the difference in brands is the additives put in to make the gas burn cleaner and in their advertisements better.

The higher the octane, the less violent the explosion that occurs in the cylinder.

7th April 2009, 01:48	#31
binoyjude BANNED Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New delhi Posts: 59 Thanked: 0 Times	I think the premium fuel is just ways of making more profit for the OIL companies.My uncle who is in IOL told me that their is not much difference.And more over normal cars do not need premium fuel. What i think its just like Energy boosters.Once you car get addicted to it.I am sure you cant Avoid it
	() Thanks

7th April 2009, 20:00	#33
RajeshK BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 696 Thanked: 260 Times	Oil companies have also been unable to explain how they reached the price mechanism. MRTPC asked the companies to "clarify the quantitive difference between normal fuel and branded fuel along with supportive documents". The query failed to get the companies to furnish anything more than letters from additive suppliers in support of their claim. While the suppliers, the Singapore branch of Chevron and Oronite, spoke about benefits of branded fuel, it has failed to impress the commission. Read the whole article at -> Does branded petrol really give you that extra mile? - India Business - Business - The Times of India
	() Thanks

30th July 2009, 22:13	#37
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,179 Thanked: 488 Times View My Garage	The argument against premium fuels is that it is not better petrol. Just additives mixed in. Not all engines and their components respond to additives well, especially diesels. I'm not aware if Shell Premium is higher octane or just like PSU premium fuel, which is normal fuel + additives. These additives do not enhance the octane rating of the fuel and thus from a fuel quality perspective, it is no better. You can even say that they are worse since it is no longer "pure" fuel. Either way, if your engine is not designed to use higher octane fuel, there is no point in pumping in higher RON petrol. It is not going to make your engine any smoother or make more power or whatever unless there is something wrong with it. It's just a placebo effect. If your engine doesn't like the additives, you're gonna end up with problems. Manufacturers like BMW go as far as to void warranty on part failures caused by additives in premium fuel.
	() Thanks

30th July 2009, 22:32	#38
rr_zen Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 1,799 Thanked: 400 Times View My Garage	The safest bet would be to stick to regular fuel. I was a hardcore fan of premium fuels and have my car filled up everytime with Speed. After 4 plus years and with all the knowledge I gained from TBHP, I decided to to switch to regular fuel. It was twin treat for me not only with spending less on fuel but also with the car returning a better fuel average.
	() Thanks

30th July 2009, 23:41	#39
mobike008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 11,695 Thanked: 14,800 Times View My Garage	OT: Never filled up in a Shell outlet. Just wanted to know if they have diesel too? If yes, normal diesel is available and is the price same as other companies?
	() Thanks

31st July 2009, 00:19	#40
Bubby BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 503 Thanked: 168 Times	I will keep it simple. I own a Petrol as well as a Diesel car and from the very beginning I have been using Premium qualities of both the fuels. To me premium fuels have always given better FE values. Once I tried filling both my cars with normal fuels, the FE decreased for both the cars by 2kmpl, so if by spending 5 & 2rs extra/l I get 2 extra kms then why should I fill normal fuels.
	() Thanks

31st July 2009, 00:29	#41
TRAUMASURG BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: MASSENA, NY. Posts: 87 Thanked: 32 Times View My Garage	Follow the owner's manual and manufacturer's recommendations If your car is designed to run on regular gas use regiular there is no advantage for using premium except throw money.On the other hand if your car is designed to use premium and instead you use regular you will notice engine knock and if car is equipped with catalytic converter as required in the West it can be damaged and will result in expensive repair
	() Thanks

31st July 2009, 00:50	#42
Bubby BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 503 Thanked: 168 Times	I will keep it simple. I own a Petrol as well as a Diesel car and from the very beginning I have been using Premium qualities of both the fuels. To me premium fuels have always given better FE values. Once I tried filling both my cars with normal fuels, the FE decreased for both the cars by 2kmpl, so if by spending 5 & 2rs extra/l I get 2 extra kms then why should I fill normal fuels.
	() Thanks

31st July 2009, 06:31	#43
Gansan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,534 Thanked: 5,544 Times	@TRAUMASURG My vehicle manual recommends 87 RON or higher. The premium fuel may be same RON as normal unleaded or a bit higher. It may additionally contain some additives for cleaning the injectors and fuel system. I like to use it since I feel it gives me a smoother ride, and also the probability of adulteration is lesser as compared to normal fuel. I just want to ensure it can't cause any harm in a new engine, and don't mind the additional cost as my car usage is very low anyway. Found this on the Hindustan Petroleum site: Power - Our Offerings - Retail(Petrol Pumps etc.) :: Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Limited
	() Thanks

31st July 2009, 09:46	#44
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	I have a feeling that the situation may differ between Euro III cities and others. In EIII cities regular is 91ON and in EII cities 87ON. While IOC XP is 93On everywhere, there is no information on the other PSUs permium fuels. Thus in a EIII city you are getting the same, but with additives, whose role is a matter of debate. In an EII city if you use XP you have an Octane Advantage. I must qualify - apparently a new car has lower Octane requirements In general the incidence of adulteration is lower in Premium Fuels. Note one thing: As per the EIII (and if I remember correctly BSIII) specs Premium should be 95ON. This may be the reason IOC calls it Petrol with additives and not premium in their billboards in these cities.
	() Thanks

31st July 2009, 10:01	#45
toll gate Newbie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	As far as my own understanding of this goes Premium Gas has a higher octane rating. It is slower to explode giving a longer duration push on the piston resulting in less "pinging", faster acceleration, more power, and ultimately better performance. Much of the value depends on the engine it's put into. If the engine is designed to use it then it does add a little bit to the performance, and it is less wearing on the engine, but the cost usually exceeds the value received. Much of the difference in brands is the additives put in to make the gas burn cleaner and in their advertisements better. The higher the octane, the less violent the explosion that occurs in the cylinder.
	() Thanks