Speed Petrol Causing Sludge in OIL ??

amit_mechengg · 7th February 2008, 23:25

Gurus, it happened the other day when i took my Alto to the MUL people in pune. my problem was that my alto wasnt speeding over 120 KMPH mark.Also pickup had reduced.did all the works right from decarbonising the engine, throttle body cleaning.fuel injector cleaning etc. but still the problem persisted.
when i took the technical head for a test drive on express highway he experienced the same problem and immediately asked me whether i fill in SPEED OR POWER or Any high octane fuel. My answer was yes as from the begining i was filling speed 93 or power or super shell all premium fuels.
i thought he was just kidding to anticipate the problem. but he cleaned the IC valve, throttle body, the exhaust system etc. dont know what else he did when i was sitting in the reception.
then we again went for the test drive and to my surprise now my alto was easily racing beyond 140 KMPH mark.
then he showed me the oil. it had developed sludge in just 6000 km of running. we did a engine flush out, filled in new castrol oil with bardahl additive.we also changed the gear oil and put the bardahl gear oil suppliment.
again i took the test drive. now my car was restored to new. felt so gud.

but guys is it true that this might have happened due to Premium fuels. i have got a strict advice from MUL people that i run only on UNLEADED normal OCTANE fuel only i suppose 91 or 89.

nitrous · 7th February 2008, 23:30

How does fuel get into the oil sump?
Sludge formation can be due to many factors.
Oil quality could also be suspect. Why didnt U shift to semi-synth or synthetic?

vikram_d · 7th February 2008, 23:54

I agree with Nitrous. The so called technical head is taking you for a ride. Fuel does not mix with oil unless there is a problem with your car's piston rings. Also there is no Speed 93. It is just called speed and it is 91 octane.

Also your notificatrion from MUL is completely useless as we dont get 89 octane fuel anymore. All petrol sold in india even the non additive one is 91 octane.

PS: I'm sure the techincal head made a fat commision on all the additives he sold to you.

phamilyman · 8th February 2008, 00:00

sorry guys,

speed is 89 octane IIRC. xtrapremium is 91 octane.

amit_mechengg · 8th February 2008, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikram_d

I agree with Nitrous. The so called technical head is taking you for a ride. Fuel does not mix with oil unless there is a problem with your car's piston rings. Also there is no Speed 93. It is just called speed and it is 91 octane.

speed 93 and speed 97 is there available in market. fuel doesnt mix with oil.but the high temp caused due to high octane fuels cause oil to burn and delevelop a sludge acc to him. well he hasnt charged me anything for fixing the fault though. earlier i had put shell MGO oil in my alto with STP engine oil suppliment.

amit_mechengg · 8th February 2008, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

sorry guys,

speed is 89 octane IIRC. xtrapremium is 91 octane.

speed is not 89 its 93 and 97

vikram_d · 8th February 2008, 00:06

It is not 93 it is 91 octane with additives. There is no 93 octane fuel available in India.

ported_head · 8th February 2008, 00:09

All unleaded petrol sold in metros enforcing Euro 3 norms is 91 octane. Speed is 91 octane plus additives. Speed 97 is exactly what it says. BPCL has discontinued 93 octane fuel.

HP has only 91 octane fuel. And so does IOC. They have their products with additives also. I don't know what sort of strategy Shell follows.

pingping · 8th February 2008, 00:12

I have been using SPEED petrol in my alto for past two years and never experienced such problem (but I dont cruise beyond 90kmph). But i can tell you one thing for sure, mileage significantly improves on those fuels. Pl. advice me whether changing the oil well before the adviced running time would eliminate the above discussed problem if at all if it exists.. Thanks

amit_mechengg · 8th February 2008, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikram_d

It is not 93 it is 91 octane with additives. There is no 93 octane fuel available in India.

are baba speed 93 is sold on many bharat petroleum pumps
check the links below guys.

Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited: Speed 93

The Hindu : BPCL launches Speed-93 brand

BPCL SPEED 97 for speed 97

vikram_d · 8th February 2008, 00:32

Arre baba the speed 93 page Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited: Speed 93 is more than 3 years old.

Irrespective of what the outdated BPCL website says there is no 93 octane in India.

Try this page

Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited-Speed Fuels

amit_mechengg · 8th February 2008, 00:35

but do u guys think that normal unleaded fuel is better than high octanes?

nitrous · 8th February 2008, 00:37

Check those years,man. 2003,2004.
If 91 octane creates sludge, then every alto(few lakhs of them) in the country should be sludged at 6,000 kms.
I think they didnt change your oil at the last "oil change".
And believe me you, sludge kills the engine.

vikram_d · 8th February 2008, 00:41

Even normal unleaded petrol is 91 octane and I have found it better than premium fuels at least in my case.

TDR · 8th February 2008, 01:42

As a member from (Northern) Europe this thread has really caught my attention.

Here, there are three kinds of "unleaded" petrol being sold.
- 90 octane unleaded petrol (called "normal")
- 95 octane unleaded petrol (called "super")
- 98 to a 100 unleaded petrol (called "super plus")

The 90 octane is usually used by the bigger, conventional (older) engines
from the likes of Mercedes, GM, etc. Non-turbo, non-supercharged, 4 cilinder, 8 valve...

The 95 octane is for the "mainstream" cars, the biggest group, here.

Whilst 98 to a hundred octane is for very modern engines like the VW/Audi FSI engines, Alfo Romeo's, etc... and the tuned ones.

Petrol with lead... you cannot buy it anymore, just petrol with a lead substitute. Usually of 98 ocatane.

I currently own a Suzuki Alto MKIII (Maruti Zen MPI). It could run on 90
octane fuel but... to be honest... I tried it but it was really not a success.
The engine did NOT like this 90 octane... it was really struggling...

On 95 octane it runs just like it should. 98 to one 100 octane did nothing but improve slighty on the mileage.

Since this in contrast as to what I read here, my question, would be "the engine of my car is a Maruti one, the exhaust system has a catalic converter, does this influence the needs of a higher octane fuel than
similar Maruti engines in India, perhaps, without a catalic converter?".

TDR

7th February 2008, 23:25	#1
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,252 Times View My Garage	Speed Petrol Causing Sludge in OIL ?? Gurus, it happened the other day when i took my Alto to the MUL people in pune. my problem was that my alto wasnt speeding over 120 KMPH mark.Also pickup had reduced.did all the works right from decarbonising the engine, throttle body cleaning.fuel injector cleaning etc. but still the problem persisted. when i took the technical head for a test drive on express highway he experienced the same problem and immediately asked me whether i fill in SPEED OR POWER or Any high octane fuel. My answer was yes as from the begining i was filling speed 93 or power or super shell all premium fuels. i thought he was just kidding to anticipate the problem. but he cleaned the IC valve, throttle body, the exhaust system etc. dont know what else he did when i was sitting in the reception. then we again went for the test drive and to my surprise now my alto was easily racing beyond 140 KMPH mark. then he showed me the oil. it had developed sludge in just 6000 km of running. we did a engine flush out, filled in new castrol oil with bardahl additive.we also changed the gear oil and put the bardahl gear oil suppliment. again i took the test drive. now my car was restored to new. felt so gud. but guys is it true that this might have happened due to Premium fuels. i have got a strict advice from MUL people that i run only on UNLEADED normal OCTANE fuel only i suppose 91 or 89.
	() Thanks

7th February 2008, 23:30	#2
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	How does fuel get into the oil sump? Sludge formation can be due to many factors. Oil quality could also be suspect. Why didnt U shift to semi-synth or synthetic?
	() Thanks

7th February 2008, 23:54	#3
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	I agree with Nitrous. The so called technical head is taking you for a ride. Fuel does not mix with oil unless there is a problem with your car's piston rings. Also there is no Speed 93. It is just called speed and it is 91 octane. Also your notificatrion from MUL is completely useless as we dont get 89 octane fuel anymore. All petrol sold in india even the non additive one is 91 octane. PS: I'm sure the techincal head made a fat commision on all the additives he sold to you. Last edited by vikram_d : 8th February 2008 at 00:04.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:00	#4
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	sorry guys, speed is 89 octane IIRC. xtrapremium is 91 octane.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:06	#7
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	It is not 93 it is 91 octane with additives. There is no 93 octane fuel available in India.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:09	#8
ported_head Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 2,387 Thanked: 20 Times	All unleaded petrol sold in metros enforcing Euro 3 norms is 91 octane. Speed is 91 octane plus additives. Speed 97 is exactly what it says. BPCL has discontinued 93 octane fuel. HP has only 91 octane fuel. And so does IOC. They have their products with additives also. I don't know what sort of strategy Shell follows.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:12	#9
pingping BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pondicherry, Chennai Posts: 77 Thanked: Once	I have been using SPEED petrol in my alto for past two years and never experienced such problem (but I dont cruise beyond 90kmph). But i can tell you one thing for sure, mileage significantly improves on those fuels. Pl. advice me whether changing the oil well before the adviced running time would eliminate the above discussed problem if at all if it exists.. Thanks
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:32	#11
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	Arre baba the speed 93 page Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited: Speed 93 is more than 3 years old. Irrespective of what the outdated BPCL website says there is no 93 octane in India. Try this page Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited-Speed Fuels Last edited by vikram_d : 8th February 2008 at 00:37.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:35	#12
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,252 Times View My Garage	but do u guys think that normal unleaded fuel is better than high octanes?
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:37	#13
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Check those years,man. 2003,2004. If 91 octane creates sludge, then every alto(few lakhs of them) in the country should be sludged at 6,000 kms. I think they didnt change your oil at the last "oil change". And believe me you, sludge kills the engine.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 00:41	#14
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	Even normal unleaded petrol is 91 octane and I have found it better than premium fuels at least in my case.
	() Thanks

8th February 2008, 01:42	#15
TDR Newbie Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Heerlen, The Netherlands, EU Posts: 23 Thanked: 3 Times	As a member from (Northern) Europe this thread has really caught my attention. Here, there are three kinds of "unleaded" petrol being sold. - 90 octane unleaded petrol (called "normal") - 95 octane unleaded petrol (called "super") - 98 to a 100 unleaded petrol (called "super plus") The 90 octane is usually used by the bigger, conventional (older) engines from the likes of Mercedes, GM, etc. Non-turbo, non-supercharged, 4 cilinder, 8 valve... The 95 octane is for the "mainstream" cars, the biggest group, here. Whilst 98 to a hundred octane is for very modern engines like the VW/Audi FSI engines, Alfo Romeo's, etc... and the tuned ones. Petrol with lead... you cannot buy it anymore, just petrol with a lead substitute. Usually of 98 ocatane. I currently own a Suzuki Alto MKIII (Maruti Zen MPI). It could run on 90 octane fuel but... to be honest... I tried it but it was really not a success. The engine did NOT like this 90 octane... it was really struggling... On 95 octane it runs just like it should. 98 to one 100 octane did nothing but improve slighty on the mileage. Since this in contrast as to what I read here, my question, would be "the engine of my car is a Maruti one, the exhaust system has a catalic converter, does this influence the needs of a higher octane fuel than similar Maruti engines in India, perhaps, without a catalic converter?". TDR
	() Thanks