Starting problem in INDICA...

Rudra Sen · 18th February 2005, 08:19

Quote:

a. The starter motor is the trouble maker
b. This is a common problem for all Indicas.

This is something really abnormal!
Starter motor is doing nothing when the car is moving. So how that can be the cause for heating?

Coolant again, either good quality or bad has nothing to do with car heating up. Coolant has a much higher boiling point.Hence we use that instead of water. Off topic may be, but please check if your radiator cap is holding the right pressure.

It also can be and most likely so as tsk1979 says, it's thermostat switch problem. The only sure and easy way to solve this is to go with Psycho's solution.
Remove the original AC coil fan with a manual fan (switch it on as you start your AC).

But why all these with a new car?
I'll blame these service stations for this. Just go there and pile on. You're still within your warranty period.

sandeepmdas · 18th February 2005, 10:37

Hi All,

It seems that there is a misunderstanding as far as this topic discussion is concerned.

What Anu is trying to say is – and my problem is- the following scenario:

a. Cold-start your Indi(ca/go…whatever). It will start smoothly, waking up your neighbors.
b. Drive the car around for 20-30 minutes.
c. Now find an empty side street. We are about to start our test run and never do this in a busy street for godssake.
d. Stop the car without obstructing traffic. Take a deep breath and turn off the engine.
e. Try to start the car. Either it will not start or the starter will hesitate a lot before getting caught.

That’s our problem. The car starts in the morning -first attempt- but fails to start when the engine is hot.
Please read Anu’s first posting again. “(when) it is heated up, it will not start”. Apparently you guys mistook it as “it is heated up, it stops” or “it is heated up, it stalls”. All the remaining postings –thermostat, 9” fan, Thunda Raja-were based on this misunderstanding.
It is not a problem with heat exchange. This is electro-mech failure guys.

But I am a bit worried after reading that the problem persists even after a starter motor replacement. That’s real trouble.

I will keep you guys posted.

Psycho · 18th February 2005, 15:17

Hey guys thanks for clearing that up:

1) Anyways if the case is not due to the starter motor, I would suggest that you get your deisel pumps pressure checked, it could be a bit high leading to the flooding of the cylinder, this usually results in the starter catching up and turning the engine without starting it... usually requires a few cranks before it starts.

2) Check for a air leak into your diesel lines.

3) If the starter motor does not start cranking the engine when it is hot then yes you will have to check both the electrical and the starter

By the way "Is the starter in the linked to this unit in such a way that it will not start cranking till the heater indicator goes off OR for a given period of time?" I need to know this as I do not own an indica and it will help troubleshoot this more accurately.

hianooo · 18th February 2005, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho

"Is the starter in the linked to this unit in such a way that it will not start cranking till the heater indicator goes off OR for a given period of time?"

U should wait untill the heater indicator goes off and then start the car...

cheers
aNu

sandeepmdas · 19th February 2005, 09:57

Psycho,

Thanks for your excellent inputs.

There is this LED light, which looks like an Anaconda that glows yellowish for some time, say 10 seconds. After that it goes off and then you can start. The car has 4 glow plugs, I learnt.

One more thing I noticed is that I can start the car if I try to start instantly –just immediately, literally- when the engine stops. For e.g the engine stopped while I was reversing, and I tried to start the moment it stopped, it restarted. But after completing the reverse, I deliberately allowed the engine to die and then tried to restart after 5 seconds. It refused to start.

Any clue?

Thanks
sandeep

sandeepmdas · 10th March 2005, 09:55

Team,

The problem with my car has been rectified.

Benz Automobiles –the best service facility for TATA in Trivandrum- did the following:

They replaced the Starter motor (made by Lucas-TVS).
The battery-to-motor wiring is freshly soldered and re-harnessed.

The car is now fine. Life is beautiful again, oops, not quite; there is the TDS cut from this month’s salary…

I think this is the right time to end my contributions to this thread.

Thank you guys, thank u all…

-Sandeep

nikhilv12 · 14th April 2007, 12:46

I have the same problem with my indica.. The authorised dealer, here in trivandrum, blamed it on the starter motor, and replaced it.

It was working fine for around 2 months after that, when the same problem started again. But, now that i have a k&n air filter and a free flow exhaust, it does not happen all the time!!!

I took it to a local mechanic last week, he said it is the problem with the glow plugs!!!!

could you please help me out in this!!!

Vineet panwar · 14th April 2007, 13:12

hi,

Little off the topic ( not indica) but i am also facing same problem with my Ford lair with 20K done on meter.My car stops nearly after 15-20 kms of driving with AC on,but then i switch off the AC it goes fine! I went to the service station twice n they checked n cleaned n decarbonised things,but the problem still exists.I went to them again and now they came saying that my Fuel pump has to be replaced,as it gets over heated with AC load.Any suggestion ?

zenopio · 14th April 2007, 15:02

get your heating plugs checked ..even my frends indigo has the same problem. he changed his heating plugs.its normal now

nitrous · 14th April 2007, 15:35

[QUOTEnikhilv12]But, now that i have a k&n air filter and a free flow exhaust, it does not happen all the time!!![/quote]
Is it a Petrol Indica or a Turbo diesel one?

nikhilv12 · 14th April 2007, 21:01

its a diesel, non turbo....

vivekiny2k · 14th April 2007, 21:18

i have had exactly thew same problem.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ont-start.html

the problem was starter motor, which wears out with time electrically (insulation getting weaker) and mechanically. Replaced it and it worked fine. before doing that you may want to check if battery is the culprit, by replacing the battery and observing the behaviour. highly unlikely though.

another thing people have suggested is hitting hard with a bat on the starter motor, which may release and start. i cud not try because it was not so easily accessible, and identifiable, didn't want to dent my engine :-D

the reason it starts instantenously is it's it's not as hot, but leaving it off for a few mins allows the engine to dissipate it's heat and starter absorbs it (is it called heat soak?)

vivekiny2k · 14th April 2007, 21:23

by the way, another component that fails is the solenoid (eletromagnet that momentarily completesthe circuit, built with the starter).

on net, there are step by step procedures on troubleshooting it. one of the links is given below.

Diagnose Engine No Start or Run

arunforu1 · 17th April 2007, 09:45

Hello all, same problem happened with my indica, the culprit is starter motor bush.

Get either stater motor replaced or atleast bushes cleaned or replaced, which has to be done by lucas-tvs, it is very very common to indicas.

appears nearly at 40,000 kms, if warranty is over simply get the bushes cleaned. If still in warranty get the motor replaced.that is the solution, do not go for battery change, as TATA guys will suggest, unless you have got your battery checked & declared dead.

vivekiny2k · 17th April 2007, 18:15

and get it done before it fails completely, having you to get it towed.

18th February 2005, 10:37	#17
sandeepmdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Varkala Posts: 1,537 Thanked: 2,491 Times	Hi All, It seems that there is a misunderstanding as far as this topic discussion is concerned. What Anu is trying to say is – and my problem is- the following scenario: a. Cold-start your Indi(ca/go…whatever). It will start smoothly, waking up your neighbors. b. Drive the car around for 20-30 minutes. c. Now find an empty side street. We are about to start our test run and never do this in a busy street for godssake. d. Stop the car without obstructing traffic. Take a deep breath and turn off the engine. e. Try to start the car. Either it will not start or the starter will hesitate a lot before getting caught. That’s our problem. The car starts in the morning -first attempt- but fails to start when the engine is hot. Please read Anu’s first posting again. “(when) it is heated up, it will not start”. Apparently you guys mistook it as “it is heated up, it stops” or “it is heated up, it stalls”. All the remaining postings –thermostat, 9” fan, Thunda Raja-were based on this misunderstanding. It is not a problem with heat exchange. This is electro-mech failure guys. But I am a bit worried after reading that the problem persists even after a starter motor replacement. That’s real trouble. I will keep you guys posted. Last edited by sandeepmdas : 18th February 2005 at 10:54.
	() Thanks

18th February 2005, 15:17	#18
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,043 Thanked: 110 Times View My Garage	Hey guys thanks for clearing that up: 1) Anyways if the case is not due to the starter motor, I would suggest that you get your deisel pumps pressure checked, it could be a bit high leading to the flooding of the cylinder, this usually results in the starter catching up and turning the engine without starting it... usually requires a few cranks before it starts. 2) Check for a air leak into your diesel lines. 3) If the starter motor does not start cranking the engine when it is hot then yes you will have to check both the electrical and the starter By the way "Is the starter in the linked to this unit in such a way that it will not start cranking till the heater indicator goes off OR for a given period of time?" I need to know this as I do not own an indica and it will help troubleshoot this more accurately.
	() Thanks

19th February 2005, 09:57	#20
sandeepmdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Varkala Posts: 1,537 Thanked: 2,491 Times	Psycho, Thanks for your excellent inputs. There is this LED light, which looks like an Anaconda that glows yellowish for some time, say 10 seconds. After that it goes off and then you can start. The car has 4 glow plugs, I learnt. One more thing I noticed is that I can start the car if I try to start instantly –just immediately, literally- when the engine stops. For e.g the engine stopped while I was reversing, and I tried to start the moment it stopped, it restarted. But after completing the reverse, I deliberately allowed the engine to die and then tried to restart after 5 seconds. It refused to start. Any clue? Thanks sandeep
	() Thanks

10th March 2005, 09:55	#21
sandeepmdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Varkala Posts: 1,537 Thanked: 2,491 Times	Team, The problem with my car has been rectified. Benz Automobiles –the best service facility for TATA in Trivandrum- did the following: They replaced the Starter motor (made by Lucas-TVS). The battery-to-motor wiring is freshly soldered and re-harnessed. The car is now fine. Life is beautiful again, oops, not quite; there is the TDS cut from this month’s salary… I think this is the right time to end my contributions to this thread. Thank you guys, thank u all… -Sandeep
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 12:46	#22
nikhilv12 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trivandrum Posts: 273 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	I have the same problem with my indica.. The authorised dealer, here in trivandrum, blamed it on the starter motor, and replaced it. It was working fine for around 2 months after that, when the same problem started again. But, now that i have a k&n air filter and a free flow exhaust, it does not happen all the time!!! I took it to a local mechanic last week, he said it is the problem with the glow plugs!!!! could you please help me out in this!!!
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 13:12	#23
Vineet panwar Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 2 Thanked: 0 Times	hi, Little off the topic ( not indica) but i am also facing same problem with my Ford lair with 20K done on meter.My car stops nearly after 15-20 kms of driving with AC on,but then i switch off the AC it goes fine! I went to the service station twice n they checked n cleaned n decarbonised things,but the problem still exists.I went to them again and now they came saying that my Fuel pump has to be replaced,as it gets over heated with AC load.Any suggestion ?
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 15:02	#24
zenopio BANNED Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: hyderabad,london Posts: 441 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	get your heating plugs checked ..even my frends indigo has the same problem. he changed his heating plugs.its normal now
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 15:35	#25
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	[QUOTEnikhilv12]But, now that i have a k&n air filter and a free flow exhaust, it does not happen all the time!!![/quote] Is it a Petrol Indica or a Turbo diesel one?
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 21:01	#26
nikhilv12 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trivandrum Posts: 273 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	its a diesel, non turbo....
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 21:18	#27
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	i have had exactly thew same problem. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ont-start.html the problem was starter motor, which wears out with time electrically (insulation getting weaker) and mechanically. Replaced it and it worked fine. before doing that you may want to check if battery is the culprit, by replacing the battery and observing the behaviour. highly unlikely though. another thing people have suggested is hitting hard with a bat on the starter motor, which may release and start. i cud not try because it was not so easily accessible, and identifiable, didn't want to dent my engine :-D the reason it starts instantenously is it's it's not as hot, but leaving it off for a few mins allows the engine to dissipate it's heat and starter absorbs it (is it called heat soak?)
	() Thanks

14th April 2007, 21:23	#28
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	by the way, another component that fails is the solenoid (eletromagnet that momentarily completesthe circuit, built with the starter). on net, there are step by step procedures on troubleshooting it. one of the links is given below. Diagnose Engine No Start or Run
	() Thanks

17th April 2007, 09:45	#29
arunforu1 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 254 Thanked: 7 Times	Hello all, same problem happened with my indica, the culprit is starter motor bush. Get either stater motor replaced or atleast bushes cleaned or replaced, which has to be done by lucas-tvs, it is very very common to indicas. appears nearly at 40,000 kms, if warranty is over simply get the bushes cleaned. If still in warranty get the motor replaced.that is the solution, do not go for battery change, as TATA guys will suggest, unless you have got your battery checked & declared dead.
	() Thanks

17th April 2007, 18:15	#30
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	and get it done before it fails completely, having you to get it towed.
	() Thanks