[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Out of curiousity, how do you check an ECU other then hooking it up to an OBD analyser. Are you suggesting it needs to be tested standalone on a test rig?

Both can be done but the OBD would be a cheaper option and it would give any preliminary faults.

OBD reader would give you faults with the engine through the ECU but if there is a problem with the ECU itself? I know the won't function properly but just a check can be done for peace of mind.

Anurag.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Both can be done but the OBD would be a cheaper option and it would give any preliminary faults.

OBD reader would give you faults with the engine through the ECU but if there is a problem with the ECU itself? I know the won't function properly but just a check can be done for peace of mind.

Anurag.

How do you propose to check the ECU???

You need a special test rig for that. Specialized companies, e.g. Bosch dealers, specialised car electronics firm might have one, but even advanced dealer service centers usually don't have a test rig for ECU. Not sure what the situation in India would be though,

The easiest way to test the ECU is actually swapping it for a new one and see if the problems persist. That does require to have the use of a spare ECU obviously.

There is a whole bunch of ECU related stuff, output related that is available on OBD, even on the P-codes. Always find someone who can also read and analyse the car specific codes.

See: http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/

Scroll down: DTC codes P0600-P0699 are specifically related to ECU output. Admittedly, if there are no codes, that does not mean the ECU is working 100%, but as I said ECU faults are rear

Jeroen

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

How do you propose to check the ECU???

I am clueless that why I am on this forum and this hread to clear my doubts!

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Scroll down: DTC codes P0600-P0699 are specifically related to ECU output. Admittedly, if there are no codes, that does not mean the ECU is working 100%, but as I said ECU faults are rear

I know the ECU faults are rare but just wanted to get a overview of it.

In my one year that I have had the OBD II reader hooked up onto my Ritz never I have found an error code recorded/displayed.

Anurag.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I am clueless that why I am on this forum and this hread to clear my doubts!



I know the ECU faults are rare but just wanted to get a overview of it.

In my one year that I have had the OBD II reader hooked up onto my Ritz never I have found an error code recorded/displayed.

Anurag.

Great, no error codes, means everything is well!

Mind you, on most system there is actually a code that shows you that the ECU has run through its calibration cycle correctly. To put it differently, on most system if everything is ok you will see one code! (Although I can't remember if that would be a generic of car specific code.)


Jeroen

[srinih75]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

How old is the car and how many kms clocked till date? I have feel the ECU also needs a check and the sensors on the engine. I am happy TASS is coming to check your car and try to solve the issue.

I too am glad that TML is taking interest in this issue. The car is close to 7 years old and has run 1.1Lakh KMs. The funny thing is in a day the CEL need to come only once, then it wont return until the next day!

Anyway, I am not planning to change any part until its fully understood that its the actual problem maker. All I can guess is something is wrong with the part which sends fuel or sends signal to the fuel pump. Engine I kind of feel is starving and unable to complete its combustion cycles effectively. Diesel engines as you can imagine gets into a loop where without much fuel it cannot generate power, without power it cannot produce compression... and without compression again no power... (repeat). Hope TML/TASS can help fix the problem.

[wanderernomad]

Originally Posted by srinih75

I too am glad that TML is taking interest in this issue. The car is close to 7 years old and has run 1.1Lakh KMs. The funny thing is in a day the CEL need to come only once, then it wont return until the next day!

.

Have they done any preliminary analysis? What is their initial response?

[srinih75]

TML is going to do their analysis on Monday. They said they will pick my car up and run some tests. I guess I will come to know what is going on next week.

Btw, today I tried to do some more tests of my own. When the engine begins to spew smoke and I see it slow down, I just went to the shoulder and drove in 2nd gear for 15-30 seconds and the CEL didnt get turned on. It then ran the next 40 kms without any issues. Also the engine after such an episode becomes super refined (many times I feel it has switched off).

Anyway, will post here on what TML has to say when they inspect my car on Monday.

[srinih75]

Hi all, got my car back today. So far so good. Ran about 20 kms and it was I can say to my satisfaction - humming like a Ferrari. No knocking or harshness. The typical Dicor clatter has vanished as well. The problem was bad wiring on the sedimentor assembly. This had caused some kind of ECU errors which resulted in certain related "burn" problems that had resulted in soot formation within EGRS and Catalytic Convertor. All this had put strain on my engine which resulted in poor performance. Anyway, the root cause was electrical/wiring problem. I am planning a trip to Coimbatore in this car in about 10 days. I will report to this group on what I find. So far what I found is the NVH levels have really become super low. Gear shifts have become smooth (though it wasn't part of the repairs) and pick up is pretty constant even in low rpms.

I guess TML has finally cracked the puzzle of my car and hope to keep it going for another 3-4 years.

Btw on an unrelated topic, heard TML is coming up with few cool models and variants of existing vehicles in late 2014 early 2015. It includes an AT Aria as well. I am waiting for the Aria or even Manza for that matter come with an AT, if priced well, it will sell like hot cakes.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by srinih75

The problem was bad wiring on the sedimentor assembly. This had caused some kind of ECU errors which resulted in certain related "burn" problems that had resulted in soot formation within EGRS and Catalytic Convertor.

. Anyway, the root cause was electrical/wiring problem.

Glad to hear it got sorted. And, as often with these problems, it is a basic electrical/wiring problems. Easy to fix, but can be a real bugger to find.

Jeroen

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by srinih75

The problem was bad wiring on the sedimentor assembly. This had caused some kind of ECU errors which resulted in certain related "burn" problems that had resulted in soot formation within EGRS and Catalytic Convertor. All this had put strain on my engine which resulted in poor performance. Anyway, the root cause was electrical/wiring problem.

Good that the problem was identified and solved. What was the cost involved and workmanship was good (re-fitting properly etc)?

I have got a doubt reading the above para, the excess soot that was developed over the time would have built up on the EGR and exhaust system! So doesn't the EGR need cleaning and something to the exhaust system too?

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Glad to hear it got sorted. And, as often with these problems, it is a basic electrical/wiring problems. Easy to fix, but can be a real bugger to find.

Wiring system is like our nervous system, less known and less fiddled with!

Anurag.

[srinih75]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Good that the problem was identified and solved. What was the cost involved and workmanship was good (re-fitting properly etc)?

Overall bill came to INR 1570. On this the main item consumed was diesel for INR 900 which was used to test the car over 200kms. When I opened the hood find everything in order. There were initially few poorly strapped wires, all are in neat order - I guess they have put in those originally missing harness. I can now see the floor from the engine compartment - which wasn't the case earlier.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I have got a doubt reading the above para, the excess soot that was developed over the time would have built up on the EGR and exhaust system! So doesn't the EGR need cleaning and something to the exhaust system too?

The EGR system was fully cleaned up this time around. Even the cat convertor. There is an entry in the invoice for these and charged at INR 0.00.

Not sure if anyone has ever thought of cleaning EGR or the exhaust system. The engine decarbonisor which is done I guess doesn't take care of this. Probably it would be a good idea to do this every 60k or at least 100k service for diesel engines.

In all, I guess TML has taken this very seriously. Especially from what I understood a special team had come from Pune to work on my car and they spent two weeks at Bangalore and my car was completely inspected and tested by them. Not sure if there were similar issues on other DICOR engines, but if that was the case probably we can see all the lessons learnt on their next set of DICOR and CR4 engines. Which I feel is a good thing.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Wiring system is like our nervous system, less known and less fiddled with!

I agree.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by srinih75

The EGR system was fully cleaned up this time around. Even the cat convertor. There is an entry in the invoice for these and charged at INR 0.00.

Good that both were cleaned as it would have been like a half service done without the cleaning. Good one Tata!

Originally Posted by srinih75

Not sure if anyone has ever thought of cleaning EGR or the exhaust system. The engine decarbonisor which is done I guess doesn't take care of this. Probably it would be a good idea to do this every 60k or at least 100k service for diesel engines.

I have done the EGR cleaning in my Ritz VDi (now at 105500 kms) on 50K service and again at 100K service.

Anurag.

[srinih75]

Yesterday I drove my car for over 80kms and there was no CEL or other errors. The vehicle however began loosing pickup after about 20 minutes and it became a bit harsh. I didn't stop the car to see what it would do. It again didn't go beyond 2k rpm and had to drive a significant distance on NICE road on 4th gear. Later at a traffic light I turned the engine off and after it restarted, he was happy again. On my return journey it was event free.

From my discussion with the CML advisor he said he has a spare sedimentor which he can fix on my car to rule out that being the problem (That's the only part which is now untouched). The symptom of a failed sedimentor is engine will begin to raise itself. Here its slowing down.

Anyway, I decided to drive my car to Coimbatore as it is and see what happens. Probably over the weekend I may visit CML and see if it can be arranged quickly as I need to preserve my current part.

I will keep all posted. Btw, my car is running 108000+ kms. Hope to get this all fixed and use the car for another 3-4 more years.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by srinih75

From my discussion with the CML advisor he said he has a spare sedimentor which he can fix on my car to rule out that being the problem (That's the only part which is now untouched). The symptom of a failed sedimentor is engine will begin to raise itself. Here its slowing down.

Sorry to hear about the problems. I am not familiar with the term sediment or? Could you explain what it is and does? Thanks?

Jeroen

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by srinih75

From my discussion with the CML advisor he said he has a spare sedimentor which he can fix on my car to rule out that being the problem (That's the only part which is now untouched). The symptom of a failed sedimentor is engine will begin to raise itself. Here its slowing down

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Sorry to hear about the problems. I am not familiar with the term sediment or? Could you explain what it is and does?

If I'm not wrong the Sedimentor is the part of the fuel filter that separates the water from diesel.

Either that is full of water or it is not working as it is intended to.

Anurag.