Airconditioning in the Gypsy

madmaxdave · 30th July 2008, 07:47

Guys I know offroaders ae not supposed to have AC but I have a Hardtop gypsy which I use for long journeys and it gets very hot nowadays. My local mechanic fitted a very effective AC but prob is that it over heats the engine.Maybe that is cause the radiators are parllel and one in front of the other - ac radiator then engine one. problem is where to relocate it.Will try to post pics as soon as possible .

GTO · 30th July 2008, 11:34

I know just what you are talking about, having probably the only Classic with an air-con in the country. Its actually not that difficult:

1. A better radiator & electric fan should keep any overheating problems at bay. My Jeep required some tinkering to set it right, but the engine never goes over the 80 - 85 degree mark anymore, whatever the conditions. There will be a certain amount of trial and error, no doubt. You only need the time, inclination and an expert mechanic.

2. Once its properly setup, the air-con will keep you comfortable in the summers, but it obviously wont cool the insides as much as say, a proper sedan. I don't know how well insulated the hardtop Gypsy is, but the soft-top on my Classic has king size gaps all around. Good news that its a small cabin and thus, the air-con blows chilled air literally into your face. I installed a powerful superking blower & compressor in my Classic. Many Moderators / BHPians from Mumbai will vouch for its effectiveness.

Without an air-con, Indian weather conditions make it imposible to use your 4x4 as a daily drive. I am extremely happy with my setup.

Start with:

- Checking the condition of your radiator, and the potential of any upgrades (in size and quality)

- Evaluating the possibility of a bigger / electric fan.

- Checking the condition of your overall cooling system (waterpump etc.).

- Posting pictures for more suggestions!

anupmathur · 30th July 2008, 12:23

Changing the fan size of the engine driven fan would help, though it will also generate more noise. Since there is no place to fit an electric fan for the condenser, the only route is to enlarge the engine fan.
A large fan (I'd used the contessa fan those days) - needs a flat-disc type new hub to be fabricated - and an ambassador sized radiator had almost completely solved overheating problems in my Gypsy. And I'm talking north India's 45 degrees type summers.

The hard-top of the Gypsy is very well insulated already - it is a double wall fibre top.

Another not so appealing solution is to mount the condenser on the roof (on top of the driver's cabin), with a high rake angle to keep vertical height under control. A good sized electric fan will be needed to assist with the normal air-flow direction. At higher speeds, the electric fan is redundant and can be switched off. The plumbing for this and the overall look when fitted does not meet with the approval of most users.

A sandwich assembly for condenser and radiator is never very successful unless the fins are regularly hosed down to remove lodged dust, leaves and bugs!

tsk1979 · 30th July 2008, 13:38

We used to have similar problem when we got AC fitted in the NE. The mechanical fan was not sufficient at idle.
Therefore our mechanic fitted an auxilary fan electric which used to come on when AC was switched on. Bingo problem solved.
You will see many old cars(with ACs fitted later) with fan visible outside. This is connected to AC switch, when you switch off AC it comes on.
The best part is there is no load on the stock wiring as it has its own relay and wiring.

anupmathur · 30th July 2008, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

... when you switch off AC it comes on.

LOL, stop confusing the elderly! Surely you mean when the AC comes ON?!

tsk1979 · 30th July 2008, 14:20

Yes, Its a typo

. When you swich on AC it comes on.

madmaxdave · 30th July 2008, 22:04

thanx guys,will try it out soon.am in Jammu and everything is shut down right now.will post pics soon.

Captain Pings · 31st July 2008, 09:57

Our king had the condenser coil mounted under the body - towards the right hand side under the driver with a small capacity (water proof) lelctric fan - the mechanical fan for the radiator was inadequate at low RPM (read delhi traffic) and the engine would rapidly heat up.

Fitted en electric fan from the Opel Corsa with a switch onto the forward part of the Radiator and this was very efficient at keeping the engine temp. normal in slow traffic too.

Must note here that we never did any serious mud plugging to such depths as to immerse the cooling fan on the underside - only fording water - and ensured that the a/c was not running during that. The a/c setup lasted a good 8 years with the original fan on the underbody till i sold it last year - she's still Team BHP owned - though unsure on the user ID (rahul - where are you?)!

As for the insulation - the cabin is well insulated - i found a simple trick helped in Peak Summers when no passengers in the rear - a simple lace curtain (like the govt amby's with lace curtains on the side) - better than a transparent plastic roll down sheet (tried - not happy) - which can be drawn across and effectively reduces the cabin space for the a/c to labour on.

Good luck sorting out the a/c problems matey!

madmaxdave · 3rd August 2008, 21:32

As you can all see in the news Jammu is shut down totally. and maybe by the time things open up the summer will be over.

jyobeb · 4th August 2008, 09:38

The original radiator of the Gypsy is totally inadequate for air conditioning. Change the radiator to a larger one with more cores and your problems will disappear.

SirAlec · 4th August 2008, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyobeb

The original radiator of the Gypsy is totally inadequate for air conditioning. Change the radiator to a larger one with more cores and your problems will disappear.

Radiator is used for AC.?? You meant condenser, I guess.

Use a higher wattage fan. This is the simplest upgrade. If the problem is not solved, then think of custom remote mounting of the condenser.

Please post the images of the bay. That will help us a lot.

anupmathur · 4th August 2008, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirAlec

Radiator is used for AC.?? You meant condenser, I guess.

He does mean radiator. The load of the AC compressor is borne by the engine, so that large radiator is very much needed.

As I have mentioned in my post earlier, I had fitted an ambassador radiator in my Gypsy.

Blue Thunder · 4th August 2008, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyobeb

The original radiator of the Gypsy is totally inadequate for air conditioning. Change the radiator to a larger one with more cores and your problems will disappear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirAlec

Radiator is used for AC.?? You meant condenser, I guess.....

I guess what jyobeb meant was that the original radiator is not enough to keep the engine at normal temp, when the a/c is working (when the a/c is used, it will load the engine , since the Gypsy engine doesnt have surplus engine power, the additional load of the a/c will make the engine overheat). Hence, a larger radiator will help to keep the engine at normal temperatures, when the A/C is on.

.

SirAlec · 4th August 2008, 20:36

I was thinking otherswise as condenser is fitted just before the radiator and condenseor also radiates lot of heat. So the stock fan is inadequate to cool the radiator.
My bet is that your mechanic hasn't fitted compressor more than 130cc which hardly takes any load on engine. I may be wrong though.
Also please mentioned that its 410 or 413?

jyobeb · 4th August 2008, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

I guess what jyobeb meant was that the original radiator is not enough to keep the engine at normal temp, when the a/c is working (when the a/c is used, it will load the engine , since the Gypsy engine doesnt have surplus engine power, the additional load of the a/c will make the engine overheat). Hence, a larger radiator will help to keep the engine at normal temperatures, when the A/C is on.
.

Exactly. The amount of water circulated needs to be more and also, the surface area for cooling also needs to be greater.
Been there, done that on my Gypsy in 1999. An electric condenser fan is also a must for using the AC inside the city.

30th July 2008, 07:47	#1
madmaxdave Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: NOIDA Posts: 15 Thanked: 4 Times	Airconditioning in the Gypsy Guys I know offroaders ae not supposed to have AC but I have a Hardtop gypsy which I use for long journeys and it gets very hot nowadays. My local mechanic fitted a very effective AC but prob is that it over heats the engine.Maybe that is cause the radiators are parllel and one in front of the other - ac radiator then engine one. problem is where to relocate it.Will try to post pics as soon as possible .
	() Thanks

30th July 2008, 11:34	#2
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,492 Thanked: 300,283 Times View My Garage	I know just what you are talking about, having probably the only Classic with an air-con in the country. Its actually not that difficult: 1. A better radiator & electric fan should keep any overheating problems at bay. My Jeep required some tinkering to set it right, but the engine never goes over the 80 - 85 degree mark anymore, whatever the conditions. There will be a certain amount of trial and error, no doubt. You only need the time, inclination and an expert mechanic. 2. Once its properly setup, the air-con will keep you comfortable in the summers, but it obviously wont cool the insides as much as say, a proper sedan. I don't know how well insulated the hardtop Gypsy is, but the soft-top on my Classic has king size gaps all around. Good news that its a small cabin and thus, the air-con blows chilled air literally into your face. I installed a powerful superking blower & compressor in my Classic. Many Moderators / BHPians from Mumbai will vouch for its effectiveness. Without an air-con, Indian weather conditions make it imposible to use your 4x4 as a daily drive. I am extremely happy with my setup. Start with: - Checking the condition of your radiator, and the potential of any upgrades (in size and quality) - Evaluating the possibility of a bigger / electric fan. - Checking the condition of your overall cooling system (waterpump etc.). - Posting pictures for more suggestions! Last edited by GTO : 30th July 2008 at 11:37. Reason: Adding point
	(1) Thanks

30th July 2008, 12:23	#3
anupmathur Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 3,095 Thanked: 306 Times	Changing the fan size of the engine driven fan would help, though it will also generate more noise. Since there is no place to fit an electric fan for the condenser, the only route is to enlarge the engine fan. A large fan (I'd used the contessa fan those days) - needs a flat-disc type new hub to be fabricated - and an ambassador sized radiator had almost completely solved overheating problems in my Gypsy. And I'm talking north India's 45 degrees type summers. The hard-top of the Gypsy is very well insulated already - it is a double wall fibre top. Another not so appealing solution is to mount the condenser on the roof (on top of the driver's cabin), with a high rake angle to keep vertical height under control. A good sized electric fan will be needed to assist with the normal air-flow direction. At higher speeds, the electric fan is redundant and can be switched off. The plumbing for this and the overall look when fitted does not meet with the approval of most users. A sandwich assembly for condenser and radiator is never very successful unless the fins are regularly hosed down to remove lodged dust, leaves and bugs! Last edited by anupmathur : 30th July 2008 at 12:25.
	() Thanks

30th July 2008, 13:38	#4
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,816 Times View My Garage	We used to have similar problem when we got AC fitted in the NE. The mechanical fan was not sufficient at idle. Therefore our mechanic fitted an auxilary fan electric which used to come on when AC was switched on. Bingo problem solved. You will see many old cars(with ACs fitted later) with fan visible outside. This is connected to AC switch, when you switch off AC it comes on. The best part is there is no load on the stock wiring as it has its own relay and wiring.
	() Thanks

30th July 2008, 14:20	#6
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,816 Times View My Garage	Yes, Its a typo . When you swich on AC it comes on.
	() Thanks

30th July 2008, 22:04	#7
madmaxdave Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: NOIDA Posts: 15 Thanked: 4 Times	Ac in gypsy thanx guys,will try it out soon.am in Jammu and everything is shut down right now.will post pics soon.
	() Thanks

31st July 2008, 09:57	#8
Captain Pings BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 61 Thanked: 3 Times View My Garage	Our king had the condenser coil mounted under the body - towards the right hand side under the driver with a small capacity (water proof) lelctric fan - the mechanical fan for the radiator was inadequate at low RPM (read delhi traffic) and the engine would rapidly heat up. Fitted en electric fan from the Opel Corsa with a switch onto the forward part of the Radiator and this was very efficient at keeping the engine temp. normal in slow traffic too. Must note here that we never did any serious mud plugging to such depths as to immerse the cooling fan on the underside - only fording water - and ensured that the a/c was not running during that. The a/c setup lasted a good 8 years with the original fan on the underbody till i sold it last year - she's still Team BHP owned - though unsure on the user ID (rahul - where are you?)! As for the insulation - the cabin is well insulated - i found a simple trick helped in Peak Summers when no passengers in the rear - a simple lace curtain (like the govt amby's with lace curtains on the side) - better than a transparent plastic roll down sheet (tried - not happy) - which can be drawn across and effectively reduces the cabin space for the a/c to labour on. Good luck sorting out the a/c problems matey!
	(2) Thanks

3rd August 2008, 21:32	#9
madmaxdave Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: NOIDA Posts: 15 Thanked: 4 Times	Thank's a lot guy's.Ping esp relevant info given thanx As you can all see in the news Jammu is shut down totally. and maybe by the time things open up the summer will be over.
	() Thanks

4th August 2008, 09:38	#10
jyobeb Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Madurai Posts: 1,010 Thanked: 703 Times	The original radiator of the Gypsy is totally inadequate for air conditioning. Change the radiator to a larger one with more cores and your problems will disappear.
	() Thanks

4th August 2008, 20:36	#14
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	I was thinking otherswise as condenser is fitted just before the radiator and condenseor also radiates lot of heat. So the stock fan is inadequate to cool the radiator. My bet is that your mechanic hasn't fitted compressor more than 130cc which hardly takes any load on engine. I may be wrong though. Also please mentioned that its 410 or 413?
	() Thanks