[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think the warranty was changed to 6 months/5000km about a year back, and most Service Centres stick with 3 months for obvious reasons. It is 3 months for the City!

Thanks, but even if its 6 months/5k kms, visiting ASC at 5k is a joke, especially when your running is high and then no oil/filter is to be changed.

City and Jazz of course get oil/filter changed at 5k, which again is ridiculous, figured this out a little while back.

OT: if one is using synthetic oil, Mitsubishi recommends oil change at 20k/1 year. Of course, our driving conditions are debatable, but thats the largest I have seen from any OEM.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by alto99

The relevant sections are here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1719665 It says 10K kms or 6 months whichever earlier for all but the last one which says 5K kms or 6 months. It is 6 months if you dont drive more than 5K kms in 6 months.

Thanks for that link, alto99!

Also, I just realized that I got confused and read 5k kms/*3* (not 6) months in your earlier post. That confusion arose because the warranty is for 80k kms/4 years (including the extended warranty) in my case, which equates to 5k kms in 3 months.

5k km in 6 months makes a lot more sense, relatively speaking. So from the manual it looks like a visit every 3 months is not really required if the car hasn't done 5k kms in 3 months.

But H.A.S.S. puts a sticker saying the next service is 3 months/5k kms away.

So now who does one believe? The manual or the service centre?

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Just wait for the Brio to be launched. You will then get 6 months across the board. They will not be able to handle the load otherwise.

Regards,
spadix

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by spadix

But H.A.S.S. puts a sticker saying the next service is 3 months/5k kms away.

So now who does one believe? The manual or the service centre?

The manual any day. One interesting observation - I had the service guys calling me at three months, but got the sms only now (at six months). Obvious. I agree that oil change at 5k (non synth) is ridiculous. I do not think Honda makes such lousy engines.

Just wait for the warranty to be over and then do your own thing.

[dot]

Honda tends to come strong on you for a 3 month service. We just need to say no thank you.

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

OT: if one is using synthetic oil, Mitsubishi recommends oil change at 20k/1 year. Of course, our driving conditions are debatable, but thats the largest I have seen from any OEM.

Probably a very interesting point.

The following is OT perhaps:

If I try to think about it, our driving conditions are probably very harsh for the transmission, but is it similarly bad for the engine? I would not think so.

If traffic is an issue, what it is really doing to the engine? During bumper to bumper traffic engine is either idling or pulling at 1000-2000. Is it really that strainful for an engine which has been tested to run at its redline for days? Futher all commercial engines are detuned to extend their longivity, read it somewhere in TBHP couple of years back.

If dust is an issue, I would guess engines are well sealed in any car.

If temperature is an issue, think about the extreme temperature the same engine experiences in US. From -20C to +40C in many regions of NA. I dont think our temperature ranges are that high. In fact a good engine oil is supposed to take care of this seasonal fluctuations.

So this leads to me believe that regular (5k or 10k) oil change should be more than enough to take care of any engine anywhere and keep it healthy.

The transmission is a different story altogether.

Looking forward to hear some comments.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by dot

Honda tends to come strong on you for a 3 month service. We just need to say no thank you.

Most engines can easily do 20k kms on synthetic oil, no issues. And then with what I always say "No one knows how to make petrol engines as good as Honda"; an i-vtec will have no problem if you do 20k on synthetic. And I mean it, its been 5k kms since I got synthetic in both Honda/mitsubishi and still when I see the oil in deepstic, it looks brand new. Further, VW too use 15k/1 year interval for oil change and I for once didnt feel the oil was in odd shape, when it was changed at 12k kms.

The issue is that our dusty conditions clog the air filter very soon, so once the air filter is clogged, some dust manages to enter engine and make the oil contaminated.

I clean my air filter every 2k kms, using a dryer (on cold air). In fact the one in lancer/cedia is the easiest to pull out. Even a 5 year old kid can take it out. But in most cars, you have to open the filter case and then clean it. In fact, you will be surprised at the amount of dust you find in filter after 2k kms. How many of us do that, almost none. So at 10 k kms, the oil is not in its best form and hence a change is recommended.

A lay man doesnt even know where an air filter is located in their car, forget about cleaning them. An OEM has to consider this, hence, shorter oil change intervals.

Second, if one has a heavy foot (high revvs), it makes oil loose its viscocity earlier than normal. Therefore, you need to change oil sooner than normal. A high revving engine will have more wear than a normal engine. Again, an OEM has to consider it. Of course, engines are detuned for longitivity but there are many people who use cars for short distances, hence the engine run cold, which isnt good for oil's viscocity again. In Winters, I make sure, I dont cross 2k rpm till the tempreture in engine reaches its optimum level.

When we talk about bumper to bumper traffic, most of the abuse is taken by the clutch and hence, you will a clutch of any car lasting as little as 20-30k kms and the same clutch lasting for more than 1 lac kms, depending on driving.

Manual gearboxes anyways doesnt require oil change very early, I see that one of civic is changed at 60k and that of cedia/lancer at 1 lac kms.

So this leads to me believe that regular (5k or 10k) oil change should be more than enough to take care of any engine anywhere and keep it healthy.

10k is a safe assesment taken by OEMs for all kinda driving conditions.



I read this article from JD Power a few months back before I switched to synthetic. Certainly worth a read.

Synthetic Motor Oils | J.D. Power

[dot]

I agree with you on all the counts. So nothing really to add. When I meant transmission takes the brunt of bumper to bumper traffic, I really meant the clutch. I wonder what is the case of an AT in this scenario.

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

I clean my air filter every 2k kms, using a dryer (on cold air). In fact the one in lancer/cedia is the easiest to pull out. Even a 5 year old kid can take it out. But in most cars, you have to open the filter case and then clean it. In fact, you will be surprised at the amount of dust you find in filter after 2k kms. How many of us do that, almost none. So at 10 k kms, the oil is not in its best form and hence a change is recommended.

Thanks for this info. Have to admit, I am part of laymen and never clean the air filter myself. Now this is going to change!

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by dot

I agree with you on all the counts. So nothing really to add. When I meant transmission takes the brunt of bumper to bumper traffic, I really meant the clutch. I wonder what is the case of an AT in this scenario.

In the late 1970s a lot of local taxi fleets in Europe switched to ATs as they found that in town running the fuel consumption was more than made up by the transmission maintenance savings. I will stick with this. I had a Zen AT which did about 60,000 before I sold it, no transmission maintenance. Of course the CV Joints were changed once. On the flip side do expect higher brake wear.

[dot]

Coming back to the grr grr noise, I found two instances on the net which could be close to the issue I am facing.


Humming noise - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum

Pullley ?? - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum

Both seem to suggest that the alternator is having issues. Any idea on this one?

I sprayed WD40 on the pulley, didnt seem to make any difference.

[sushrutha]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

I clean my air filter every 2k kms,
How many of us do that, almost none.

I often clean my cars air filter, atleast once in 15 days.
Whenever I give my car for water wash in a service station(once in 15 days atleast), I make sure my cars get the air filter cleaned by the compressor air which they use for vaccuming the car.
Have been following the same since many years.

[dot]

Finally I got a youtube video which captures the grr grr noise exactly. here is the link.

YouTube - ‪Honda Civic 1.8 Engine Noise‬‏

Kindly listen to the grr grr noise comes from the 3rd sec onwards in this video.

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by dot

Honda tends to come strong on you for a 3 month service. We just need to say no thank you.

Probably a very interesting point.

The following is OT perhaps:

If I try to think about it, our driving conditions are probably very harsh for the transmission, but is it similarly bad for the engine? I would not think so.

The transmission is a different story altogether.

Looking forward to hear some comments.

Spot on DOT. I agree that engines would not be affected by the terrible road conjestion and dust. Transmission and suspension, well thats a different story altogether.

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

The issue is that our dusty conditions clog the air filter very soon, so once the air filter is clogged, some dust manages to enter engine and make the oil contaminated.

I clean my air filter every 2k kms, using a dryer (on cold air). In fact the one in lancer/cedia is the easiest to pull out. Even a 5 year old kid can take it out. But in most cars, you have to open the filter case and then clean it. In fact, you will be surprised at the amount of dust you find in filter after 2k kms. How many of us do that, almost none. So at 10 k kms, the oil is not in its best form and hence a change is recommended.

A lay man doesnt even know where an air filter is located in their car, forget about cleaning them. An OEM has to consider this, hence, shorter oil change intervals.

When we talk about bumper to bumper traffic, most of the abuse is taken by the clutch and hence, you will a clutch of any car lasting as little as 20-30k kms and the same clutch lasting for more than 1 lac kms, depending on driving.

Manual gearboxes anyways doesnt require oil change very early, I see that one of civic is changed at 60k and that of cedia/lancer at 1 lac kms.


10k is a safe assesment taken by OEMs for all kinda driving conditions.

Guilty as charged, I used to be so obsessed by the external beautification of the Civic that I would seldom open the bonnet. But that's about to change. In my last service the SA informed me that the air filter was clogged terribly. I intend to open it up and clean it every 2 months or so.
Superb post Gaurav!

Since my car barely did 5.5K in the first year of my ownership, I plan to service the car just once a year. That will include the oil change and any other complains that I may have.

[dot]

Another video of a similar noise.

YouTube - ‪car noises dec 08‬‏

The car in this video has a similar noise but its way too loud compared to the noise coming in my car. My car sounds very close to the first video. Please see my previous post also.

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by dot

Honda tends to come strong on you for a 3 month service. We just need to say no thank you.

This is exactly what I have been doing for the last six months. I got my car serviced in Dec 2010 at about 3K kms and went in for an oil change as well. I have been getting reminders every month since March 2011 to come in for a service which I have been promptly declining since my car is yet to touch 4K kms. The S.A. is fully supportive of this and has asked me to come in only when the car has touched 6K kms.

[gaurav_chopra04]

@Dot and Hiren, I am glad, the post was of help.

@sushrutha, air filter cleaning once every 15 days using compressed air is great. In fact, its the best way to clean it. I don't get my car washed from outside so don't get the opportunity to clean the filter using compressed air. So I just hit it gently against a wall to get rid of major dust and then use dryer to clean it thoroughly.

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I used to be so obsessed by the external beautification of the Civic that I would seldom open the bonnet.

you reminded me of a recent sachin's castrol commercial.

@ DOT, I will be a liitle worried for the noise, if I were you. Please take advise from a good independent garage. Alternator is no issues but engine and transmission should be fine.

[dot]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

@ DOT, I will be a liitle worried for the noise, if I were you. Please take advise from a good independent garage. Alternator is no issues but engine and transmission should be fine.

@gaurav, Thanks.

Yes, I think some action is needed. If there is indeed an issue, it should be nipped at the bud. I spend a lot of time on google, youtube and around the engine bay for the last couple of days.

Now I dont think that the noise is from alternator. It is probably coming from the serpentine belt. Maybe it is loose.