Linea VGT in a Swift?

rajatsingh78 · 14th January 2009, 18:06

Hi Guys,

I recently read an article on Fiat Linea in an automobile magazine, this car has the same engine as in Swift VDi, ie, 1248cc multijet with a Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT), any idea if this turbo is a direct fit to the Swift VDi ? or will a Pete's box be more economical as compared to get a VGT for the Swift ?

Cheers,
Rajat

swale84 · 14th January 2009, 18:26

I don't think the VGT is the ONLY difference between the two engines.
There's also a vacuum accumulator and the ECU mapping would be different. The tubes & hoses would naturally be different.
Theoretically though, if you can get hold of the parts and the ECU remapped, I think it might just be doable - space permitting

cruiser_1982 · 14th January 2009, 18:33

I would suggest a pete's tuning box. It is plug-and-play, proven and tested and can be installed in 15 minutes. On the other hand, there will be a lot of work involved in installing a VGT and installing the tubes, hoses, etc. May get messy and your vehicle's reliability may go down.

rajatsingh78 · 15th January 2009, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruiser_1982

I would suggest a pete's tuning box. It is plug-and-play, proven and tested and can be installed in 15 minutes. On the other hand, there will be a lot of work involved in installing a VGT and installing the tubes, hoses, etc. May get messy and your vehicle's reliability may go down.

I think you are right, but any idea how much would the pete's tuning box cost for Swift VDi, and since I have an extended warranty, it is possible to remove it myself (and putting the OEM ECU back in) before visiting the dealer for regular services, if this happens I think this would be the best option, considering the fact that this will increase the bhp from 75 to 90 with no major mods

invincible7 · 15th January 2009, 21:01

Rajat what you have said is very much possible and some of the members here have done that. Using the Petes box and removing before going for car regular service under warranty.

The price i think is around 25K not sure, you can check petes site for the exact prices.

swale84 · 15th January 2009, 21:28

YOu could also PM Amey, he has one on his swift. I remember it being around 30K, but I could be wrong.

JayD · 15th January 2009, 21:51

I think ripper was thinking along the same lines. But will it be practical?? How will u control the VGT operation??

15th January 2009, 22:11

I did do some asking around and was told that it is going to be next to impossible to get the VGT into the swift. In addition to the hardware compatibility and space issues, We'll need a whole new set of ECU maps.
VGT control is difficult even for sophisticated tuners abroad, we can forget about it!

Apparently it will be much easier just to put in a bigger FGT turbo and upgrade the intercooler, get a standalone ECU and boost controller.

I'm not dreaming about the VGT anymore.

The Pete's box costs around 28k, and is plug and play, and supposedly boosts the power to 90bhp and torque to 230nm, which is very similar to the linea's figures anyway. So, yes- it is going to be much more easier and cheaper to get a Pete's dabba.

If anyone has info on an intercooler upgrade in the swift, please let me know

kpzen · 15th January 2009, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rippergeo

If anyone has info on an intercooler upgrade in the swift, please let me know

OMG Doc ! Hope u are not prescribing turbo, VGTs and intercoolers to your patients..

I'll give u an idea.
Plonk the 1.5 Crdi in your Swift.

drpullockaran · 15th January 2009, 23:53

I read somewhere that the mechanical parts to convert the 1.3 engine of the swift into a 1.6 is minimal. Is comeone thinking along these lines. The 1.6 is sold in China and elsewhere too.
Drool on. Infact I had pleaded with Mangesh to influence the top honchos at FIAT to bring out the 120bhp version of the 1.6 engine when they release the Linea but they have not taken heed as you all know.

Fiat Bravo: All the strengths of the new 1.6 Multijet 16v engine

::ITALIASPEED::

If you want more power in the 120bhp vgt version then you can put in

this.
P-Tronic additional box-units :: power kit ::engine chips :: diesel chips :: power box-units :: diesel tuning :: power box-unit :: chiptuning :: increase engine power :: diesel booster :: TDI tuning :: additional box-unit (NEW)

If you have the FGT with 115bhp then you can put in the P-Tronic and still have the same torque as the VGT with the P-tronic.

16th January 2009, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

I read somewhere that the mechanical parts to convert the 1.3 engine of the swift into a 1.6 is minimal.

Doc, would you please give us more details on this?

sameel · 16th January 2009, 09:34

are you guys joking?? or plain crazy?? 1.3 to 1.6??!

even a rebore job wont be able to increase the capacity to 1.6L ??

consider the simple math. .3\1.3 = .23

therefore 23% increase in engine capacity by changing mechanical parts!!

you will have to change the whole engine block. FGT unit might be retained. but still

1.3l to 1.6l without reboring is impossible.

and mind you guys the reboring is not as simple as a job in gasoline engines.

you have to deal here with five set of injections per cylinder for each power stroke.

the fuel spray pattern will go for a toss if the reboring is done like this!!

the best and cheap way for you guys will be to put in a bigger turbo . small problem though the swift engine bay is too small. the oem turbo is only as huge as ones palm!!

1.6 gasoline engine can be taken by the chassis but not the 1.6 diesel engine.

dont think in lines of power boosting only!! think of reliability also.

if you guys want then i can lay down all the options available for power increase. but dont think of 1.3 to 1.6 . its impossible without some serious engine block upgrades!

and any idea on the complexity involved to take care of the vibration balancing??

the firing order is 1-3-2-4 there is a tolerance level of +-.07% ( i might be wrong not sure of the tolerance this is OEM dependent) for the change between cylinder capacities.

for example like cylinder 1 is 300cc then cylinder 2 can be like 301cc or 299cc etc. and based on this the ECU adjusts the SOE for each injectors!

but with 1.3l to 1.6l this whole tolerance thing will go for a real bad toss. and the spray pattern wont be proper. hell injections can even overlap! and yes the injectors would have to be upgraded as well!!

meaning the injectors will have higher current rating like say instead of .1A current required for OEM injectors, the after market ones will require .12A since the valves have to open more! or its possible that the after market injectors are rated at .1A itself. even then the injection windows will have to be changed to meet the higher capacity! ECU will have to be re-programmed accordingly..

the complxity goes on..

in short dont think on those lines. lolz. trouble over right?
cheers
sameel

16th January 2009, 21:22

@sameel- i'm glad you're here.
I dont think drpull is talking about reboring, He's talking about the block being changed, we'll wait for details.

So tell us, what are the options

You've already said bigger FG turbo. what else? And wont we need a standalone ECU for that?

josepeter · 16th January 2009, 21:54

Shouldn't the increased power be complemented by better brakes and stiffer springs etc! Or is it safe to get the power upgrade to 90 without upgrading the rest of the car?

narry · 16th January 2009, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

I read somewhere that the mechanical parts to convert the 1.3 engine of the swift into a 1.6 is minimal. Is comeone thinking along these lines. The 1.6 is sold in China and elsewhere too.
Drool on. Infact I had pleaded with Mangesh to influence the top honchos at FIAT to bring out the 120bhp version of the 1.6 engine when they release the Linea but they have not taken heed as you all know.

Fiat Bravo: All the strengths of the new 1.6 Multijet 16v engine

::ITALIASPEED::

If you want more power in the 120bhp vgt version then you can put in

this.
P-Tronic additional box-units :: power kit ::engine chips :: diesel chips :: power box-units :: diesel tuning :: power box-unit :: chiptuning :: increase engine power :: diesel booster :: TDI tuning :: additional box-unit (NEW)

If you have the FGT with 115bhp then you can put in the P-Tronic and still have the same torque as the VGT with the P-tronic.

hi
since i am based in china there no diesel cars sold in china
also suzuki swift sold in china is 1.5 petrol and 1.3
there is suzuki swift 1.6 sport sold in china
hope things are clear
since i live in china
regards
narry

14th January 2009, 18:06	#1
rajatsingh78 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Agra/Ghaziabad Posts: 291 Thanked: 29 Times	Linea VGT in a Swift? Hi Guys, I recently read an article on Fiat Linea in an automobile magazine, this car has the same engine as in Swift VDi, ie, 1248cc multijet with a Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT), any idea if this turbo is a direct fit to the Swift VDi ? or will a Pete's box be more economical as compared to get a VGT for the Swift ? Cheers, Rajat
	() Thanks

14th January 2009, 18:26	#2
swale84 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 459 Thanked: 9 Times	I don't think the VGT is the ONLY difference between the two engines. There's also a vacuum accumulator and the ECU mapping would be different. The tubes & hoses would naturally be different. Theoretically though, if you can get hold of the parts and the ECU remapped, I think it might just be doable - space permitting
	() Thanks

14th January 2009, 18:33	#3
cruiser_1982 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 313 Thanked: 16 Times	I would suggest a pete's tuning box. It is plug-and-play, proven and tested and can be installed in 15 minutes. On the other hand, there will be a lot of work involved in installing a VGT and installing the tubes, hoses, etc. May get messy and your vehicle's reliability may go down.
	() Thanks

15th January 2009, 21:01	#5
invincible7 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi NCR Posts: 665 Thanked: 173 Times	Rajat what you have said is very much possible and some of the members here have done that. Using the Petes box and removing before going for car regular service under warranty. The price i think is around 25K not sure, you can check petes site for the exact prices.
	() Thanks

15th January 2009, 21:28	#6
swale84 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 459 Thanked: 9 Times	YOu could also PM Amey, he has one on his swift. I remember it being around 30K, but I could be wrong.
	() Thanks

15th January 2009, 21:51	#7
JayD Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cochin! At last Posts: 3,236 Thanked: 2,568 Times View My Garage	I think ripper was thinking along the same lines. But will it be practical?? How will u control the VGT operation??
	() Thanks

15th January 2009, 22:11	#8
rippergeo Posts: n/a	I did do some asking around and was told that it is going to be next to impossible to get the VGT into the swift. In addition to the hardware compatibility and space issues, We'll need a whole new set of ECU maps. VGT control is difficult even for sophisticated tuners abroad, we can forget about it! Apparently it will be much easier just to put in a bigger FGT turbo and upgrade the intercooler, get a standalone ECU and boost controller. I'm not dreaming about the VGT anymore. The Pete's box costs around 28k, and is plug and play, and supposedly boosts the power to 90bhp and torque to 230nm, which is very similar to the linea's figures anyway. So, yes- it is going to be much more easier and cheaper to get a Pete's dabba. If anyone has info on an intercooler upgrade in the swift, please let me know Last edited by rippergeo : 15th January 2009 at 22:14.
	() Thanks

15th January 2009, 23:53	#10
drpullockaran BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ERNAKULAM Posts: 962 Thanked: 385 Times	Far easier to put in the variables for the 1.6 version of the engine I read somewhere that the mechanical parts to convert the 1.3 engine of the swift into a 1.6 is minimal. Is comeone thinking along these lines. The 1.6 is sold in China and elsewhere too. Drool on. Infact I had pleaded with Mangesh to influence the top honchos at FIAT to bring out the 120bhp version of the 1.6 engine when they release the Linea but they have not taken heed as you all know. Fiat Bravo: All the strengths of the new 1.6 Multijet 16v engine ::ITALIASPEED:: If you want more power in the 120bhp vgt version then you can put in this. P-Tronic additional box-units :: power kit ::engine chips :: diesel chips :: power box-units :: diesel tuning :: power box-unit :: chiptuning :: increase engine power :: diesel booster :: TDI tuning :: additional box-unit (NEW) If you have the FGT with 115bhp then you can put in the P-Tronic and still have the same torque as the VGT with the P-tronic. Last edited by drpullockaran : 16th January 2009 at 00:02.
	() Thanks

16th January 2009, 09:34	#12
sameel BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: cochin Posts: 268 Thanked: 3 Times	are you guys joking?? or plain crazy?? 1.3 to 1.6??! even a rebore job wont be able to increase the capacity to 1.6L ?? consider the simple math. .3\1.3 = .23 therefore 23% increase in engine capacity by changing mechanical parts!! you will have to change the whole engine block. FGT unit might be retained. but still 1.3l to 1.6l without reboring is impossible. and mind you guys the reboring is not as simple as a job in gasoline engines. you have to deal here with five set of injections per cylinder for each power stroke. the fuel spray pattern will go for a toss if the reboring is done like this!! the best and cheap way for you guys will be to put in a bigger turbo . small problem though the swift engine bay is too small. the oem turbo is only as huge as ones palm!! 1.6 gasoline engine can be taken by the chassis but not the 1.6 diesel engine. dont think in lines of power boosting only!! think of reliability also. if you guys want then i can lay down all the options available for power increase. but dont think of 1.3 to 1.6 . its impossible without some serious engine block upgrades! and any idea on the complexity involved to take care of the vibration balancing?? the firing order is 1-3-2-4 there is a tolerance level of +-.07% ( i might be wrong not sure of the tolerance this is OEM dependent) for the change between cylinder capacities. for example like cylinder 1 is 300cc then cylinder 2 can be like 301cc or 299cc etc. and based on this the ECU adjusts the SOE for each injectors! but with 1.3l to 1.6l this whole tolerance thing will go for a real bad toss. and the spray pattern wont be proper. hell injections can even overlap! and yes the injectors would have to be upgraded as well!! meaning the injectors will have higher current rating like say instead of .1A current required for OEM injectors, the after market ones will require .12A since the valves have to open more! or its possible that the after market injectors are rated at .1A itself. even then the injection windows will have to be changed to meet the higher capacity! ECU will have to be re-programmed accordingly.. the complxity goes on.. in short dont think on those lines. lolz. trouble over right? cheers sameel
	() Thanks

16th January 2009, 21:22	#13
rippergeo Posts: n/a	@sameel- i'm glad you're here. I dont think drpull is talking about reboring, He's talking about the block being changed, we'll wait for details. So tell us, what are the options You've already said bigger FG turbo. what else? And wont we need a standalone ECU for that?
	() Thanks

16th January 2009, 21:54	#14
josepeter BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 416 Thanked: 565 Times	Shouldn't the increased power be complemented by better brakes and stiffer springs etc! Or is it safe to get the power upgrade to 90 without upgrading the rest of the car?
	() Thanks