[Raccoon]

Dr. Bhatti, let me add one more thanks for your v informative articles.

Could you just elaborate on this point if possible -

8. No additive can promise extra mileage beyond 5% taking into account all possible effects. If you notice, branded fuels are around 10% more expensive.

How does an additive promise 5% extra mileage? AFAIK, all additives that promise extra mileage, horse power, etc. have been found to be bogus. Also, the additives we are talking about don't even promise this. All they are claimed to do is to reduce carbon in the combustion side in an IC engine (you have not mentioned this), and remove gum, varnish, etc. (you have mentioned this). As far as I remember they don't explicitly claim to inhibit corrosion... at least System G dosent (cant recall the claims made by "premium" fuels, made in this regard, but I dont think they do either).

Now if the function of the additives is limited to the above, then how can they provide consistent 5% increase in performance? Yes, they can clean up you engine and hence help fuel efficiency indirectly... but point is if the engine is already clean, then how can they increase efficiency even by 5%?

Would really appreciate if you could clarify the theory behind this. It is very difficult for an end user to establish this, as even if you try out ordinary and branded fuels from the same bunk, you can never be sure which one is adulterated by how much. Nor are driving conditions similar. So its very difficult for the ordinary end user to ascrtian if premium fuels do indeed give 5% extra fuel efficiency... and hence offset their extra cost at least to some extent.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by dadu

Now how can we push the oil companies to install these ATC's who needs to be contacted, what needs to be done ??

A. The Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices (MRTP) Act, 1969 was to be phased out by 2005-2006, thereby dividing the cases under this law into two sub-groups. The MRTPC was to be dissolved and these cases would then be governed by:

1. a. The Consumer Protection Act, 1986 (68 of 1986).
b. The Consumer Protection (Amendment) Act, 2002 (62 of 2002) brought into force w.e.f. 15.3.2003.
c. The Consumer Protection Regulations, 2005.
d. The Bureau of Indian Standards (Recognition of Consumers' Associations) Rules, 1991 brought into force w.e.f. 9.10.1991.

2. a. The Competition Act, 2002.
b. The Competition (Amendment) Act, 2007 (12 of 2003) brought into force w.e.f. 13.1.2003. See Section 4 (Abuse of dominant position).

The time for the roll out of the Competition Act was for setting up the Competition Commission of India (CCI). However, this was delayed by writ petitions in the Supreme Court of India. The Government of India may, under the powers conferred upon it under this Act, exempt any Company from the purview of this Act.

B. Appropriate amendments will be required to
a. The Standards of Weights and Measures Act, 1976 (60 of 1976) brought into force w.e.f. 8.4.1976.
b. The Standards of W&M (Enforcement), Act,1985 (54 of 1985) brought into force w.e.f. 4.9.1985.
c. Standards of Weights and Measures (General) Amendment Rules, 2004.

C. Consumer Awareness Drive. 99% customers do not know what an ATC is.

D. The Right to Information Act, 2005 (22 of 2005) brought into force w.e.f. 15.6.2005 will also help in gathering information in public interest.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sumit Bhatti

...not filling in 'premium' fuel is 'emosional attyachar'.

8. No additive can promise extra mileage beyond 5% taking into account all possible effects. If you notice, branded fuels are around 10% more expensive.
10. Higher performance (compression) engines will require higher octane fuel to prevent knocking. MPFI vehicles can handle a wider range of fuels.

11. You can use branded fuels in premium cars...

Hi Dr. Bhatti: IIRC, there were articles in the newspapers some time ago, wherein the debate was whether these premium fuels were at all safe. We've gone the unleaded way for quite some time now, and as most of us know, the lead in petrol increased the flash point of the fuel and rendered it less prone to knocking (essentially increasing the octane number).

Once lead went, the oil co.s quietly started putting in manganese, in the form of methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT), to raise the octane number in their premium fuels. The following points may be noted about MMT:

• Lowest cost lead alternative, octane response less than lead.
• 10-20% of the MMT derived manganese from the fuel is emitted from the tailpipe- the majority remains within the engine, catalyst and exhaust system
• Most major auto-makers recommend against using MMT, advising that any damage caused by MMT not covered by the warranty
• Because of growing concerns Regarding Adverse Health Effects of Manganese & Possible Damage to Advanced Pollution Controls, Very little MMT is Used in OECD Countries and it is Banned in India & Brazil. (from [COLOR=#008000]www.cleanairnet.org/baq2006/1757/docs/SP10_3.ppt)[/COLOR]
• BUT as per the newspapers, oil cos. worldwide continue to use MMT, since, while US and Canadian authorities have reservations about the health and environmental effects of MMT, it still has an official clean bill of health due to inconclusive medical testing. (http://www.news-medical.net/?id=335)
• And our imported fuels are said to also contain MMT, though WE at the refinery end do not apparently add it.

We shall be greatly obliged to have your expert opinion on this. If indeed MMT is present in the premium fuels to improve their ON nos., it would be criminal on our part to continue to use them.

[anupmathur]

Further to the above posts, am I right in believing that higher octane number does not increase the calorific value of a fuel?
So how can anyone claim that premium fuel gives better FE?

[Raccoon]

^^^Yes higher octane does not mean higher calorific value.

As for your second point, I'm assuming you are implying that premium fuels have higher octane rating. AFAIK, both "premium" and ordinary fuels are supposed to have the same octane rating as of now ie. 91.

But, if you assume that "premium" fuels have higher octane, then they can give better FE only in vehicles that have compression ratios that can make use of the higher octane fuel... as they will run more efficiently! Otherwise, there will be no increase in FE.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

]We shall be greatly obliged to have your expert opinion on this. If indeed MMT is present in the premium fuels to improve their ON nos., it would be criminal on our part to continue to use them.

Q. 1. Does thinking about fuel additives give you a headache, or are they a pain in your neck?
A. 1. Try a tablet of Combiflam. The active ingredients in this popular tablet are paracetamol and ibuprofen, two of the largest prescription and over the counter (OTC) drugs in the world. (Cautiono not have it on an empty stomach, or if you suffer from asthma, liver or renal disease).

Q. 2. So what do fuel additives and these medicines, paracetamol and ibuprofen, have in common?

Q. 3. Is there a Masonic Lodge in your neighborhood? Ever wondered how that quiet, deserted building remains untouched by urbanization? Who pays its Corporation Taxes, or for its upkeep? Who funds it?

A. 3. Well. You do. Every time you fill up fuel, you contribute, too.

First, a little bit of history:

In the 1920’s Tetra ethyl lead (TEL) was added to motor spirit (MS) to
1. Enhance the octane and to reduce engine knock.
2. It also prevented damage to valve seats by being deposited there.

But too many deposits would be counter-productive; hence a lead scavenger Ethylene Dibromide (EDB / Dibromoethane) was added. It is a toxin, too. (Source: US EPA)

Though Pb was a known cumulative toxin long before this blending, its toxic state was known as ‘Plumbism’. Besides fuel, lead-based paints and plumbing pipes and lead contaminated soil were major causes of Plumbism. This made it difficult to pin it down at that time.

Q. 4. Lead was never a by product of crude, so the oil industry had to source it from other suppliers, the largest being Associated Octel. Patent protection runs out after twenty years. Was lead withdrawn when too many suppliers including DuPont, entered the Lead market?

Q. 5. Did TEL, being patentable, also prevent you and me from adding home made or locally procured ethanol into our fuel?

This continued till the late 70’s / 80’s and in India, well into the mid 90’s. UK banned sale of leaded petrol on 1st January 2000 in line with the EU.

I was one of the first retailers of unleaded petrol (ULP) in India when it was introduced in 1995 (1996 in Pune). The phase out of leaded petrol went on till 2000. That’s when the debate of what replaced Lead (Pb) was raging. Was ULP really better, or had the oil industry discovered anything cheaper than Pb. Was it more Benzene (C6H6), that carcinomatous aromatic whose structure was discovered by Kekule as he dreamt of a snake holding on to its own tail? (Source: Our School Textbooks)

Incidentally, Kekule was accused of Cryptomnesia (A form of memory biased plagiarism) in relation to the Ouroboros. (Source: Wikipedia. Pages on Kekule, Ouroboros, Cryptomnesia)

"No, it’s not Benzene," said oil company officials, "Benzene is a natural constituent of crude oil, in fact, and it is removed to an acceptable level, not added. We are concerned about safety, therefore we add a more expensive Methyl Ter(tiary) Butyl Ether (MTBE) and Ethyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (ETBE)."
(Source: Verbal discussions with oil industry officials).

MTBE and ETBE were also found to be toxic environmental pollutants. In 2002, the then Hon. Petroleum Minister Shri Ram Naik announced in Parliament that MTBE and ETBE would be phased out. (Source: Lok Sabha TV Coverage)

Then MTBE was replaced by Ethanol. Both improve combustion, and hence reduce pollution.
A. 5. Ethanol was a known blend before TEL.

And further probing came up with the name of an additive called Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (MMT).

MMT is an octane booster that also enables older generation vehicles to use ULP without adverse effects on their older engines.

Manganese in MMT, like all trace elements, is both important to human health (It is required for many vital enzymatic reactions) and deleterious in large quantities. Manganese toxicity is commonly seen in Miners. It manifests as asthenia, anorexia, apathy, headache, impotence, leg cramps, speech disturbances and occasionally even more severe encephalitis-like and Parkinson’s-like syndromes, psychosis and pneumoconiosis. (Source: Harrison’s Principles of Internal Medicine, 14th Edition.)

Then came mention of detergents, surfactants, anti-foaming agents, degreasers, de-emulsifiers, de-icing agents, octane boosters, anti-corrosives, lubricants, aftermarket additives, colorants, dyes, stabilizers, markers and such additives.

I often wondered if the only thing in this universe that was more complex than this hydrocarbon soup we call fuel, was the primordial soup that formed in the first instants of the Big Bang.

For example:
Q. 6. what constitutes basic gasoline?
Is it medium hydrocarbon chains?
Is it a mixture of alkenes, aromatics, cycloalkanes and alkanes and isomerates?
Is it a mixture of butane, hexane, para-xylene, meta-xylene, ortho-xylene, isomeric alkanes, n-butane, higher aromatics, n-hexane, n-nonane, 1-nonene, cyclohexane and toluene ? (Source: Key Centre for Polymer Colloids)

Back to the answers:

Paracetamol is derived from coal-tar and benzene!
Combiflam is marketed in India by the firm Sanofi – Aventis which was formed in 2004 when Sanofi-Synthelabo purchased Aventis. Aventis itself, was formed in 1999 when Rhone Poulenc S.A. merged with Hoechst A.G. (Source: Aventis)

IG Farben, which, through it’s subsidiary Degesch manufactured Zyklon B, the pesticide used in the Holocaust, was broken down after World War II into well known companies like Agfa, BASF, Bayer and Hoechst.

IG Farben had strong links with Standard Oil Trust owned by J. D. Rockfeller who was a prominent Illuminati, an elite group of the Freemasonry. This is the most confusing and debatable link. (Though Author Dan Brown's books: The Da Vinci Code and Angels & Demons are not direct sources, it would be worthwhile reading them)

In 1911, the Supreme Court of the United States found Standard Oil Company of New Jersey in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and held that Standard Oil, which by then still had a 64% market share, originated in illegal monopoly practices and ordered it to be broken up into 34 new companies. These included, among many others, Continental Oil, which became Conoco, now part of ConocoPhillips; Standard of Indiana, which became Amoco, now part of British Petroleum (BP); Standard of California, which became Chevron; Standard of New Jersey, which became Esso (and later, Exxon), now part of ExxonMobil; Standard of New York, which became Mobil, now part of ExxonMobil; and Standard of Ohio, which became Sohio, now part of BP. Rockefeller, who had rarely sold shares, owned substantial stakes in all of them. (Source: Wikipedia Page on John D. Rockfeller)

The world’s largest manufacturer of Ibuprofen is Abemarle Corporation.

Dr Reddy's Laboratories (DRL) has signed a global distribution agreement for Ibuprofen Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient (API) with a US-based specialty chemicals company, Albemarle Corporation in 2008. (Source: Pharma Express)

TEL was blended into gasoline by Ethyl Gas Corporation, a joint venture between General Motors Corporation and Standard Oil Of New Jersey (Esso) and DuPont in 1924. It was finally named Ethyl Corporation in 1942. It had a tie –up with Associated Octel. It also made MTBE. It also makes MMT and bromide additives (EDB).

In 1962, Albemarle Paper Manufacturing Company bought out Ethyl Corporation. General Motors exited.

In 2004, Ethyl Corporation changed its name to NewMarket Corporation, the parent company of Afton Chemical Corporation and a namesake Ethyl Corporation that still manufactures TEL for some third world markets, ATF and fuels used in racing. (Source: NewMarket Corporation)

Indian Oil Corporation (IOC)’s XtraPremium Petrol and XtraMile Diesel are formulated by additives from Afton Chemical Corporation. (Source: IOC)

Bharat petroleum Corporation Limited (BPCL)’s Hi-Speed Diesel is formulated using additives from Ethyl Corporation, USA. BPCL’s Speed Petrol has additives from Chevron. (Source: BPCL)

Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Limited (HPCL) is silent about the source of its Power and Turbojet ‘imported’ additives. (Sources: HPC, multiple, all)

I wonder if all this research answers your question or does it raise new ones ?

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sumit Bhatti

I wonder if all this research answers your question or does it raise new ones ?

Talk about asking a simple question and getting a complex answer! Phew... That history lesson went a few metres over my head ( and I daresay, of quite a few other members on T-BHP). A synopsis of your dissertation should read as below:

1. We don't know if Indian oil cos.' premium fuels contain MMT or not (it's a secret), but we suspect they do.
2. Corporate financial shenanigans are at the root of this veil of secrecy.
3. Use allegedly MMT-spiked fuels at your own peril until research catches up and actually tells you it killed 10,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx people worldwide.
4. Paracetamol is derived from coal-tar and benzene but won't make you or your car go faster.

I hope that puts the MMT issue in proper perspective.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

And our imported fuels are said to also contain MMT, though WE at the refinery end do not apparently add it.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

1. We don't know if Indian oil cos.' premium fuels contain MMT or not (it's a secret), but we suspect they do.
3. Use allegedly MMT-spiked fuels at your own peril until research catches up and actually tells you it killed 10,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx people worldwide.
4. Paracetamol is derived from coal-tar and benzene but won't make you or your car go faster.

I hope that puts the MMT issue in proper perspective.

You are spot on !

Another thought: Could MMT be added to crude itself? Crude oil also has numerous additives added to aid it's transport and to protect it's storage areas. (Source: ProTec) If not MMT, then which aromatics are increased in India's own domestic crude refining?

Somehow, in spite of extensive search, I have not been able to find out HPCL's source of Power and Turbojet additives. Has anybody had better luck?

I have gone through a Team-BHP thread on Acetone (Nail polish remover) added to fuel. Exothermic reactions are well documented with Drano crystals, a household declogger abroad. (Wikipedia. Page on Drano). Just give me some time for further research into safety before anyone tries to pop paracetamol into the tank ! (After all, paracetamol is derived from Nitrobenzene)

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Could you just elaborate on this point if possible -
Would really appreciate if you could clarify the theory behind this. So its very difficult for the ordinary end user to ascrtian if premium fuels do indeed give 5% extra fuel efficiency... and hence offset their extra cost at least to some extent.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Further to the above posts, am I right in believing that higher octane number does not increase the calorific value of a fuel? So how can anyone claim that premium fuel gives better FE?

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Yes higher octane does not mean higher calorific value.
As for your second point, I'm assuming you are implying that premium fuels have higher octane rating. AFAIK, both "premium" and ordinary fuels are supposed to have the same octane rating as of now ie. 91.
But, if you assume that "premium" fuels have higher octane, then they can give better FE only in vehicles that have compression ratios that can make use of the higher octane fuel... as they will run more efficiently! Otherwise, there will be no increase in FE.

“In search of the optimum power stroke”:

Different brands of fuel give different performance because of the combination of driving style, engine design, vehicle mass, fuel octane distribution, fuel volatility, and the octane-enhancers used.


A. Definitions:

RON = Research Octane Number, light load conditions.
MON = Motor Octane Number, high speed / heavy load conditions.
DON = Distributive Octane Number = RdON = most accurate description of fuel response under actual driving conditions = [(RON + MON) / 2] = AKI (Anti-Knock Index)
PON = Pump Octane Number, Octane displayed at Petrol Pumps in India, Europe, Australia is usually = RON; in the USA, it is usually = DON.
dRON = Delta RON
FEON = Front End Octane Number
ON = Octane Number. Can be higher than 100*. For example, LPG > 110, ATF > 130, Racing Fuels > 110.

B. Reference Fuels:

Iso-octane = A hydrocarbon whose octane equivalent is arbitrarily defined as 100. * However, it is not the most octane resistant hydrocarbon available.

n-heptane = A hydrocarbon whose octane equivalent is zero.

ON is measured with reference to a mixture of these two hydrocarbons. For example 91 ON petrol has the same knock resistance as a mixture of 91% iso-octane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane) and 9% n-heptane.

C: More Definitions:

ONR = Octane Number Requirement = the ON of the fuel which will provide initial knock or trace knock under high speed and high load conditions. Engine design and environmental conditions cause engine ONR to vary widely.
ORI = Octane Requirement Increase.

ONR may increase if:
1. The compression ratio is increased.
2. The coolant temperature increases.
3. Combustion Chamber deposits are present.
4. The ambient temperature increases (Inlet air temperature).
5. Fuel mixture is lean.
6. Engine ignition timing is advanced.
7. The engine is turbocharged

ONR may minimized if:
1. The absolute humidity decreases.
2. The altitude increases.
3. Engine ignition timing is retarded.
4. Improper valve timing.
5. Combustion chamber shape is ideal (Hemispherical with spark plug in center).

D: Sensitivity = (RON – MON). It predicts the change in anti-knocking behavior of the fuel under different operating conditions. High sensitivity fuels have a larger difference between RON and MON.

E: DON: If ON is distributed differently through-out the boiling range of a fuel, then engines can knock on one brand, but not on another brand. This "octane distribution" is especially important when sudden changes in load occur, such as high load, full throttle, acceleration. The fuel can segregate in the manifold, with very volatile fractions reaching the combustion chamber first and, if that fraction is deficient in octane, then knock will occur until the less volatile, higher octane fractions arrive.

F: dRON: The test fuel is carefully distilled to obtain a distillate fraction that boils to the specified temperature, which is usually 100 ºC. Both the parent fuel and the distillate fraction are rated on the octane engine using the Research Octane method. The difference between these is the delta RON (100 ºC), usually just called the delta RON. The delta RON ratings are not particularly relevant to engines with injectors.

G: FEON: Front End Octane Number = RON @ 100 ºC: Paraffin’s are the major component in gasoline, and the ON decreases with increasing chain length or ring size, but increases with chain branching. Overall, the effect is a significant reduction in octane if front end volatility is lost, as can happen with improper or long term storage (Stale Fuel). Fuel economy on short trips can be improved by using a more volatile fuel, at the risk of carburetor icing and increased evaporative emissions. MTBE improves FEON. It is important in cold start conditions where the low boiling parts of fuel get a chance to vaporize. FEON also increases engine efficiency during the low speed acceleration stage.

H: There are four basic types of performance additives in ‘premium’ gasoline:
1. Detergents: These remove and prevent deposits such as carbon in the engine's intake system. They do not enhance octane.
2. Octane Enhancer: Lead used to be added to gasoline as an octane enhancer. The common octane enhancers include MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether), MMT (methyl-cyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl), and alcohols.
3. Oxidation, Corrosion and Rust Inhibitors: These are designed to prevent formation of gums and varnish in gasoline during storage due to evaporation on storage or reactions between various components and oxygen or certain metals like copper. (Stale Fuel) They also help protect the fuel system parts from rust.
4. De-emulsifiers: These ensure water separates rapidly from fuel, reducing the risk of customers finding water in the fuel they buy at the pump.

I: Summary:
One of the major sources of water in fuel, besides condensation, is the use of water as a buffer while transporting fuels through large pipelines. Petrol and Kerosene heads are always separated by water.

Fuel blends differ, therefore actual energy content varies from season to season and from batch to batch, by up to 4% more or less than the average, according to the US EPA.

Clean engines, less deposits, clean injectors and better lubricity keep the engine running at optimum efficiency and extends its life.

All these factors do make a small difference in FE with the use of premium fuels.

(Sources: Shell Canada Jargon Dictionary, Free Dictionary by Farlex, Ondeo / Nalco Fuel Field Manual, Faqs.org, the Handbook of MTBE and Other Gasoline Oxygenates, US EPA, Wikipedia Page on Gasoline, Automotive Technology)

[anupmathur]

LOL, Dr. Bhatti, none of us are planning on writing a dissertation on octane values and fuel additives!

Phew, that was a huge answer! I read it twice in entirety. But the question remains unanswered.

The question asked was a very very simple one:

Does premium fuel give up to 5% better FE?

I go to a petrol bunk and see two grades being offered: Regular and Premium.
Of course the premium is more expensive , say by 5%.
Everything else being same, will this premium give me 5% better FE?

My understanding is that it will not.
Other factors (like my car, my driving style and my daily commute) being constant, FE will improve ONLY if the calorific value of the fuel is higher.

The Premium being sold to me does not have higher calorific value. It may have many additives but it has nothing to enhance the calorific value.

Am I right in believing this?

[Bubby]

Bhatti ji, Mathur ji, Raccoon ji and SS ji, all Sir ji's, everything is going over and above everything I have

Do let us know of the conclusions, obviously when you reach at one.

@ anup ::: I always get better FE when I use premium fuels, either Petrol or Diesel and the percentage increase is in FE has always been more then 10%.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Bubby

@ anup ::: I always get better FE when I use premium fuels, either Petrol or Diesel and the percentage increase is in FE has always been more then 10%.

How come I don't?

This is a very difficult parameter to ascertain in daily drives, but you are claiming a ten percent increase! That's huge!

Are there others who have seen this kind of benefit?

[Bubby]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

How come I don't?

This is a very difficult parameter to ascertain in daily drives, but you are claiming a ten percent increase! That's huge!

Are there others who have seen this kind of benefit?

The exmaples are :::

In my AVEO when I use normal Petrol I get a FE of 11kmpl, whereas with premium I get 12.5-13kmpl.

In my PALIO when I use normal Diesel I get a FE of 18kmpl, whereas with premium I get 21kmpl.

All figures are from my daily commute from home-work-home, 66kms a day, the start times ( the traffic scene ) are the same in all cases.

[getsurya]

Hi All,

I cannot comment on the scientific reasons as I do not know them, However, whenever I have used Xtra Premium Diesel in my ride the car is smoother and the mileage is improved by atleast 1kmpl! Infact to ascertain this i have used Normal and Premium alternate weeks for 2 months and I do find the difference! So, now only Xtra Premium goes into my car! Might be placebo but numbers do support that effect!!

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Bubby

Bhatti ji, Mathur ji, Raccoon ji and SS ji, all Sir ji's, everything is going over and above everything I have

Ask Dr. Bhatti simple questions to get back complex answers. Two simple questions:

1. Do premium fuels give up to 5% better FE or performance? If yes, why - i.e. by what mechanical/chemical/miraculous mechanism? If no, then why charge premium prices on these fuels?
2. Are the additives in premium fuels more harmful to humans than
regular fuels? If yes, why is such additive use not being stopped?

Dr. Bhatti, can we have straight, short answers to these questions, understandable by lay people like us? We hope you will NOT launch into another of your 6000-word literary incomprehensibilities... We are depending on your knowledge to provide us simple answers on this forum, so please don't disappoint us.