New trouble with Indigo

kpbhatt · 7th February 2009, 11:00

i have started facing a wierd problem on my indigo in the last one month.

i had done regular servicing at 55K kms. Also did wheel alignment and balancing.

On the trip to Mumbai the car started swaying on the expressway and started rocking like a boat. We stopped to check the source and realised the car doesnt move straight if the steering is straight. I have to incline the steering towards the right to keep the car moving straight. After returning to Pune, took it to the local mechanic shop who had serviced it and he pointed out the problem to wheel alignment. It was redone and the car worked fine for 2 weeks. The same problem resurfaced after a broken timing belt was replaced on Sunday last week. Since I was at work, my driver took it to the workshop. He mentioned that the alignment was correct, however the tyres were responsible . They (this is what i was told) changed the tyres from a newer indigo and the car ran just fine. However with my tyres it did not.

So the conclusion was that these tyres are not good and need a replacement. My father is a tyre tech expert and been in the field for more than 40 yrs and is at Mumbai. I asked him if this could indeed be true. He differed and said that since the tyre tread is intact there is no reason this is the source of the problem. We also did rotation to convince that this wasnt the problem. The source of the problem seems to be elsewhere. The car still sways to the left if the steering is straight and rocks like a boat and loses composure over even the smallest of potholes or irregularities on the road. Can any experts point out to what could be a possible source of problem and where to look at ?

thanks
KPB

Avenger · 7th February 2009, 15:44

there is a rod between the front wheels which helps in balacing. i used to own indigo and had similar issue. the rod might be bent/broken and needs replacement.
perform one more eheck:. whenever taking a turn when the road is damp/wet, check which tyre loses grip earlier. check that side first.

Hope this helps!!

adityamunshi · 7th February 2009, 16:59

I think its called the tie-end rod.

Nikhilb2008 · 7th February 2009, 17:30

Tie rod end doesnt help with balancing. It helps in alignment. That is the one which basically decides the toe of the vehicle.

The problem could be that the person doing the alignment isnt tightening the tie rod end properly. So, it's becoming loose quickly.

If tyres are gone, then it should rock like a boat. It should just drag towards one side.

siddartha · 7th February 2009, 17:39

was there any wobbling or harsh vibrations at the steering wheel?

kpbhatt · 7th February 2009, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by siddartha

was there any wobbling or harsh vibrations at the steering wheel?

Yes there is some wobbling at the steering wheel; I have to hold the steering wheel real tight to keep the direction in check. I am suspecting some trouble with the steering column too however am wary of the local mechanic opening it or working on it.

siddartha · 7th February 2009, 17:58

the steering column can develop play , but that will manifest itself as "thud" or that type of sound when you hit a bump , so the problem is definitely not in the steering column.

i think you should get the tie rod ends changed , just to be sure.

greenhorn · 7th February 2009, 18:05

+1 for the tie rods. happens a lot

BaCkSeAtDrIVeR · 7th February 2009, 18:35

Are the tyres wearing out evenly?

kpbhatt · 7th February 2009, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Are the tyres wearing out evenly?

Yes they are -- there is even wear and tear on all tyres. I will have some trusted or known mechanic around to have a look at the tie rods

SirAlec · 7th February 2009, 23:09

1. First check the Wheel (i am assuming you are not using alloy) for any deformation. A machine/wheel straightener can be used.

2. Alignment and balancing.

Also is braking perfect or it wobble more during braking??

tsk1979 · 8th February 2009, 00:11

Check the front shocks.
Stand near the wheel, and press the fender downwards(don't press the car down on bonnet as it can dent the bonnet).
After pushing the car down with your weight, leave it.
It should come up.
If it comes up and then kind of goes up and down in oscillations, the front dampers are shot, and are not damping the oscillations.
Typically when this happens, in a straight line the car waves left right.
Other thing to check are the tie rods and crossmember.
Faulty tie rod and ball joint can cause alignment to go out within weeks. It will also ruin your tires.
And last but not the least, do you see the wheel wobbling excessively while on balancing machine, if so its a bent rim, a problem all to common on the indigo and indica due to heavy engine and flimsy rims

kpbhatt · 8th February 2009, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Check the front shocks.
Stand near the wheel, and press the fender downwards(don't press the car down on bonnet as it can dent the bonnet).
After pushing the car down with your weight, leave it.
It should come up.
If it comes up and then kind of goes up and down in oscillations, the front dampers are shot, and are not damping the oscillations.
Typically when this happens, in a straight line the car waves left right.
Other thing to check are the tie rods and crossmember.
Faulty tie rod and ball joint can cause alignment to go out within weeks. It will also ruin your tires.
And last but not the least, do you see the wheel wobbling excessively while on balancing machine, if so its a bent rim, a problem all to common on the indigo and indica due to heavy engine and flimsy rims

thanks -- will check and confirm..

Avenger · 9th February 2009, 17:46

KP,

My experience was similar. I had my front right tyre go out in 2K Kms just because of this issue.

The tie rod was adjusted by the service person and i had no issues after that. I ran the car for 5k Kms after that. no issues with tyres. check the tie rod at A*S*S or get it replaced.

Avenger

kpbhatt · 9th February 2009, 22:19

Went to a nearby workshop mechanic who gave me an estimate of 14K. Thought of comparing this with a TASC which is near my place.
Here is the breakup of the cost of repairs and the items that have gone bust

1. Front and Rear Struts -- 14.5K
2. Rear Suspension Bush -- Rs 1463
3. Lower link Rod Rear -- Rs 500
4. Oil Sump Gasket kit -- Rs 400
5. Driveshaft Oil Seal -- Rs 250
6. Lower link Bush Kit -- Rs 800
7. Lower Ball joint -- Rs 1200
8. C Mount -- Rs 830
9. GSL Bushkit -- Rs 300
10. Splash Guard -- Rs 434
11. Oil Castor Rig -- Rs 500
12. Ball Joint -- Rs 1700
13. Diesel Return and Main line -- Rs 256
14. Wheel Alignment -- Rs 650

Total estimate of Rs 24K + taxes on labor. The behaviour of the car in the first post was due to the shot Struts and they need immediate replacement. What do you suggest guys -- i am giving it for servicing at TASC on Wednesday and it would take @ 3-4 days to complete all of the above

7th February 2009, 11:00	#1
kpbhatt BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 349 Thanked: 33 Times View My Garage	New trouble with Indigo i have started facing a wierd problem on my indigo in the last one month. i had done regular servicing at 55K kms. Also did wheel alignment and balancing. On the trip to Mumbai the car started swaying on the expressway and started rocking like a boat. We stopped to check the source and realised the car doesnt move straight if the steering is straight. I have to incline the steering towards the right to keep the car moving straight. After returning to Pune, took it to the local mechanic shop who had serviced it and he pointed out the problem to wheel alignment. It was redone and the car worked fine for 2 weeks. The same problem resurfaced after a broken timing belt was replaced on Sunday last week. Since I was at work, my driver took it to the workshop. He mentioned that the alignment was correct, however the tyres were responsible . They (this is what i was told) changed the tyres from a newer indigo and the car ran just fine. However with my tyres it did not. So the conclusion was that these tyres are not good and need a replacement. My father is a tyre tech expert and been in the field for more than 40 yrs and is at Mumbai. I asked him if this could indeed be true. He differed and said that since the tyre tread is intact there is no reason this is the source of the problem. We also did rotation to convince that this wasnt the problem. The source of the problem seems to be elsewhere. The car still sways to the left if the steering is straight and rocks like a boat and loses composure over even the smallest of potholes or irregularities on the road. Can any experts point out to what could be a possible source of problem and where to look at ? thanks KPB
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 15:44	#2
Avenger BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 57 Thanked: 3 Times	there is a rod between the front wheels which helps in balacing. i used to own indigo and had similar issue. the rod might be bent/broken and needs replacement. perform one more eheck:. whenever taking a turn when the road is damp/wet, check which tyre loses grip earlier. check that side first. Hope this helps!!
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 16:59	#3
adityamunshi BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Baroda Posts: 771 Thanked: 6 Times	I think its called the tie-end rod.
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 17:30	#4
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,196 Thanked: 10,138 Times	Tie rod end doesnt help with balancing. It helps in alignment. That is the one which basically decides the toe of the vehicle. The problem could be that the person doing the alignment isnt tightening the tie rod end properly. So, it's becoming loose quickly. If tyres are gone, then it should rock like a boat. It should just drag towards one side.
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 17:39	#5
siddartha BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: bangalore Posts: 671 Thanked: 24 Times	was there any wobbling or harsh vibrations at the steering wheel?
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 17:58	#7
siddartha BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: bangalore Posts: 671 Thanked: 24 Times	the steering column can develop play , but that will manifest itself as "thud" or that type of sound when you hit a bump , so the problem is definitely not in the steering column. i think you should get the tie rod ends changed , just to be sure.
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 18:05	#8
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,397 Times View My Garage	+1 for the tie rods. happens a lot
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 18:35	#9
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR BANNED Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kochi Posts: 2,522 Thanked: 752 Times	Are the tyres wearing out evenly?
	() Thanks

7th February 2009, 23:09	#11
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	1. First check the Wheel (i am assuming you are not using alloy) for any deformation. A machine/wheel straightener can be used. 2. Alignment and balancing. Also is braking perfect or it wobble more during braking??
	() Thanks

8th February 2009, 00:11	#12
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Check the front shocks. Stand near the wheel, and press the fender downwards(don't press the car down on bonnet as it can dent the bonnet). After pushing the car down with your weight, leave it. It should come up. If it comes up and then kind of goes up and down in oscillations, the front dampers are shot, and are not damping the oscillations. Typically when this happens, in a straight line the car waves left right. Other thing to check are the tie rods and crossmember. Faulty tie rod and ball joint can cause alignment to go out within weeks. It will also ruin your tires. And last but not the least, do you see the wheel wobbling excessively while on balancing machine, if so its a bent rim, a problem all to common on the indigo and indica due to heavy engine and flimsy rims
	() Thanks

9th February 2009, 17:46	#14
Avenger BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 57 Thanked: 3 Times	KP, My experience was similar. I had my front right tyre go out in 2K Kms just because of this issue. The tie rod was adjusted by the service person and i had no issues after that. I ran the car for 5k Kms after that. no issues with tyres. check the tie rod at ASS or get it replaced. Avenger
	() Thanks

9th February 2009, 22:19	#15
kpbhatt BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 349 Thanked: 33 Times View My Garage	Went to a nearby workshop mechanic who gave me an estimate of 14K. Thought of comparing this with a TASC which is near my place. Here is the breakup of the cost of repairs and the items that have gone bust 1. Front and Rear Struts -- 14.5K 2. Rear Suspension Bush -- Rs 1463 3. Lower link Rod Rear -- Rs 500 4. Oil Sump Gasket kit -- Rs 400 5. Driveshaft Oil Seal -- Rs 250 6. Lower link Bush Kit -- Rs 800 7. Lower Ball joint -- Rs 1200 8. C Mount -- Rs 830 9. GSL Bushkit -- Rs 300 10. Splash Guard -- Rs 434 11. Oil Castor Rig -- Rs 500 12. Ball Joint -- Rs 1700 13. Diesel Return and Main line -- Rs 256 14. Wheel Alignment -- Rs 650 Total estimate of Rs 24K + taxes on labor. The behaviour of the car in the first post was due to the shot Struts and they need immediate replacement. What do you suggest guys -- i am giving it for servicing at TASC on Wednesday and it would take @ 3-4 days to complete all of the above
	() Thanks