AC switch problem in Baleno

ac3112 · 15th February 2009, 22:41

Dear all,
I have encountered a strange problem with the Climate control AC in my Baleno VXi. The AC compressor cuts in with the ignition, irrespective of the status of the switch in the climate control module. The only way to disengage the AC is to pull out the fuse.
The problem was identified when we experienced that the AC unit supplies cool air continuously even in the blower mode. I bought this car from First Choice in Dec 2008, although we checked out many other points in this otherwise fantastic car, I had no inkling about this possibility and would not be able to state since when this problem existed. I must add that the auto features in the climate control works perfectly.
Kataria automobile (MASS) in Ahmedabad have asked me to leave the car for them to identify the real problem. They have carried out a preliminary check by changing the relays (between the AC Fan and AC comp) which did not work. I propose to take the car to them on Sat Feb 21.
I look forward to inputs from BHPians on what could be the possible reasons for this problem.
Thanks,
ac3112

iceman91 · 16th February 2009, 09:55

chcek if the switch itself is faulty, thereby engaging the ac permanently

shuvc · 16th February 2009, 14:08

Check this thread from this post onwards.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post586692

I had to replace almost all CC electronics to rectify it. In my case, the damage was due to water. Hopefully it's a simpler issue in your case.

SirAlec · 16th February 2009, 22:29

If you are in ahmedabad! Kataria and most MASS have very few trained guys, and Gujju people don't even care much, they just leave the car and thats it.

Call imran at 9825486542, atlantic air, he has a small garage behind cama motors, khanpur. You will not regret, give him my reference (ken from abu)
He is the best ac mechanic i have known yet.

ac3112 · 18th February 2009, 11:50

Dear all,
At the onset, thanks for the responses.
Following advice of Sir Alec (Ken from Abu) I got the car inspected by Imran. He opines that it is a problem in the ECM (in all likelihood), he feels that the AC prgram needs to be reloaded.
He suggests a local contact in Ahmedabad (Nasir Bhai), who according to him is very experienced and would be able to do this job.
I am a bit scary about taking this step, since I do not know the impact of a possible re-setting of the ECM. I am not sure if there is a risk involved in getting the ECM damaged. Also, it is likely that other programs may get disturbed.
Should this be done only in MASS? Please advice.

Regards,
AC3112

I had got the car inspected by Imran, and have posted in the same thread. In short, he feels it is problem with ECU and suggests reloading the program for AC. Pl advice.

Note from the Team-BHP Support: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

SirAlec · 19th February 2009, 01:24

will call him tomorrow and know the details!

ac3112 · 20th February 2009, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac3112

Dear all,
At the onset, thanks for the responses.
Following advice of Sir Alec (Ken from Abu) I got the car inspected by Imran. He opines that it is a problem in the ECM (in all likelihood), he feels that the AC prgram needs to be reloaded.
He suggests a local contact in Ahmedabad (Nasir Bhai), who according to him is very experienced and would be able to do this job.
I am a bit scary about taking this step, since I do not know the impact of a possible re-setting of the ECM. I am not sure if there is a risk involved in getting the ECM damaged. Also, it is likely that other programs may get disturbed.
Should this be done only in MASS? Please advice.

Regards,
AC3112

Since the ECM is the likely source of the problem, I asked MASS if they could inspect it, and, considering that there is an emission warranty on the Car, which covers the ECM, would Maruti consider replacement of this unit under the consideration that a malfunctioning ECM always lead to emission related problems. The Maruti engineer first refused, and then asked MASS to ascertain if the fault lied specifically in the ECM.
Although I felt that the acid test of the technician pulling out the AC cable from the AC controller and yet witnessing AC on with ignition, was adequate. MASS felt other wise. They asked for a complete AC wiring check-up to be carried out. For this they opened up all the relevant electrical circuit. Soon, I realised that the technicians were groping. I enquired about the circuit diagram - the response was that they do not have one for 2006 Baleno Vxi Model!! I always thought that Kataria was the best equipped MASS in Ahmedabad.
Immediately I asked them to abort the search and brought the vehicle back from MASS, to return to the same state of confusion on whether or not I should get the ECM reprogramed!
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks

gigy · 21st February 2009, 00:54

Try tracing the wiring using a electrician/ac mechanic and see if any of the relay or switch is stuck. Are you sure of ECU commanding AC on/off. ECU was supposed to do the fuel regulation as per input from AC amplifier. Its the climate control system needing a check. hope that mechanic knows about its way of functioning. If it has AC amplifier try swapping it with another baleno.
one more option you have is disconnect the battery for an hour or so( may be disconnect and leave it overnight) connect back and see it the problem still exist. i have diagram of 2000 model, so cant help.

ac3112 · 21st February 2009, 09:18

Thanks for the response.
I could see the AC ON Tech -2 display, and the mechanic confirmed this. You may be right that it could be due to two wires getting connected, in the wiring circuit. The unfortunate part was that the MASS did not even have the circuit diagram to trace through, leave alone diagnostic kits. Shall try out some other MASS today.

gigy · 21st February 2009, 13:57

Considering maruti's reputation, i doubt there is any major technical change in various car they offer. So i feel the ECU must be getting signal for 'AC on' through AC amplifier only. MASS guys must be know this much atleast, if it is so. So if this is confirmed then try for replacing AC amplifier and components down the line including climate control.
ECU cannot be so unrelaible. did you try resetting it?

SirAlec · 21st February 2009, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac3112

Since the ECM is the likely source of the problem, I asked MASS if they could inspect it, and, considering that there is an emission warranty on the Car, which covers the ECM, would Maruti consider replacement of this unit under the consideration that a malfunctioning ECM always lead to emission related problems. The Maruti engineer first refused, and then asked MASS to ascertain if the fault lied specifically in the ECM.
Although I felt that the acid test of the technician pulling out the AC cable from the AC controller and yet witnessing AC on with ignition, was adequate. MASS felt other wise. They asked for a complete AC wiring check-up to be carried out. For this they opened up all the relevant electrical circuit. Soon, I realised that the technicians were groping. I enquired about the circuit diagram - the response was that they do not have one for 2006 Baleno Vxi Model!! I always thought that Kataria was the best equipped MASS in Ahmedabad.
Immediately I asked them to abort the search and brought the vehicle back from MASS, to return to the same state of confusion on whether or not I should get the ECM reprogramed!
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks

I know imran but not nasir, maybe i have met once. Go ahead and try them, as with mirzapur guys they will take full responsibility.

As far as kataraia are concerned they could not even bleed the brake properly. As boys are paid very low as low as just Rs.1500/ month, so them doing work sincerely is very unlikely. there is only two head mechanic and they normaly order the boys.

ac3112 · 22nd February 2009, 09:51

Thanks once again for your responses.
Yesterday MASS (Kataria) carried out a thorough check on the ECM, AC switch, Electrical wiring. They were nice enough to not only organise a sapre ECM for checking, but also brought in an identical Baleno 2006 VxI (on a lighter side - even the color was same - but of course I did not insist on changing the number plates!!).
The ECM was cleared first - it is OK
The AC switch next - ok
Thermostat - ok
Wiring - this is the only point of suspicion. In principle, the full wiring needs to be inspected and repaired if necessary. MASS however, do not undertake repair - they can only replace the wiring - the cost ~ Rs 20,000/- for the wiring + labour - only for the AC related wiring!!
I could not do any negotiation on the product quality, therefore asking for a replacement under a discounted price, since, during inspection it was detected that two of the wires in the AC line were already cut. I guess (though it may not be 100% correct), this was done at the end of first choice, when they identified the problem (the first choice warranty does not cover AC related parts).
Hence, I propose to get the wiring checked and repaired by the Nasir Bhai, today. Shall keep you posted on the subsequent developments.

SirAlec · 22nd February 2009, 16:07

i also called him and told the same, that to rule out the ECM and check the wiring part first.

crazydiablo · 25th February 2009, 14:18

I had the same issue in my Baleno. AC fan gets switched on even the the AC or blower switch was off. My radiater fan was not getting switched on. Both these were wiring issues. Both sorted out by wiring. In my car the issue was the wiring under the smaller fuse box in the bonnet. Some fuses were mismatched and the wiring under the box had burnt/switched. Hope this helps.oh by the way it was fixed in Bimal bangalore.

ac3112 · 28th February 2009, 21:20

This weekend I could manage to get some time to drive to Nasir Bhai's works (Referred by Imran, who was recommended by Sir Alec).
He carried out a methodical search and could finally locate the problem to be due to the pressure switch (located behind the front grille and very close to the horn) getting connected, to one of the wires connecting to the horn, due to damaged insulation!!

Must say a few words about Nasir Bahi - I realised that he happens to be one of the most reliable persons in Ahmedabad in the field of ECM repairs/ resolving complex auto electric problems. Also, many of the company service technicians have a very high opinion about him. Should any one need to speak to him in emergencies he could be contacted on 09227222266.

I notice a significant reduction in RPM without AC (it was ~ 850 - 900 with & now ~ 650 without). I hope they are in the right zone - comments welcome!
There are no undue vibrations, and pick-up is ok.

Thank you all

. I hope to return back to this forum to share the Baleno experience!! Wonder how Maruti could afford to stop production of this car!
Intend (not sure though) to do Ahmedabad-Kolkata-Ahmedabad this summer - inputs on the road conditions/ route, welcome.

15th February 2009, 22:41	#1
ac3112 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 19 Thanked: 37 Times	AC switch problem in Baleno Dear all, I have encountered a strange problem with the Climate control AC in my Baleno VXi. The AC compressor cuts in with the ignition, irrespective of the status of the switch in the climate control module. The only way to disengage the AC is to pull out the fuse. The problem was identified when we experienced that the AC unit supplies cool air continuously even in the blower mode. I bought this car from First Choice in Dec 2008, although we checked out many other points in this otherwise fantastic car, I had no inkling about this possibility and would not be able to state since when this problem existed. I must add that the auto features in the climate control works perfectly. Kataria automobile (MASS) in Ahmedabad have asked me to leave the car for them to identify the real problem. They have carried out a preliminary check by changing the relays (between the AC Fan and AC comp) which did not work. I propose to take the car to them on Sat Feb 21. I look forward to inputs from BHPians on what could be the possible reasons for this problem. Thanks, ac3112
	() Thanks

16th February 2009, 09:55	#2
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	chcek if the switch itself is faulty, thereby engaging the ac permanently
	() Thanks

16th February 2009, 14:08	#3
shuvc Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 2,913 Thanked: 352 Times View My Garage	Check this thread from this post onwards. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post586692 I had to replace almost all CC electronics to rectify it. In my case, the damage was due to water. Hopefully it's a simpler issue in your case.
	() Thanks

16th February 2009, 22:29	#4
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	If you are in ahmedabad! Kataria and most MASS have very few trained guys, and Gujju people don't even care much, they just leave the car and thats it. Call imran at 9825486542, atlantic air, he has a small garage behind cama motors, khanpur. You will not regret, give him my reference (ken from abu) He is the best ac mechanic i have known yet.
	() Thanks

18th February 2009, 11:50	#5
ac3112 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 19 Thanked: 37 Times	Dear all, At the onset, thanks for the responses. Following advice of Sir Alec (Ken from Abu) I got the car inspected by Imran. He opines that it is a problem in the ECM (in all likelihood), he feels that the AC prgram needs to be reloaded. He suggests a local contact in Ahmedabad (Nasir Bhai), who according to him is very experienced and would be able to do this job. I am a bit scary about taking this step, since I do not know the impact of a possible re-setting of the ECM. I am not sure if there is a risk involved in getting the ECM damaged. Also, it is likely that other programs may get disturbed. Should this be done only in MASS? Please advice. Regards, AC3112 I had got the car inspected by Imran, and have posted in the same thread. In short, he feels it is problem with ECU and suggests reloading the program for AC. Pl advice. Note from the Team-BHP Support: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts. Last edited by Jaggu : 18th February 2009 at 12:03. Reason: Back to back post
	() Thanks

19th February 2009, 01:24	#6
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	will call him tomorrow and know the details!
	() Thanks

21st February 2009, 00:54	#8
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	Try tracing the wiring using a electrician/ac mechanic and see if any of the relay or switch is stuck. Are you sure of ECU commanding AC on/off. ECU was supposed to do the fuel regulation as per input from AC amplifier. Its the climate control system needing a check. hope that mechanic knows about its way of functioning. If it has AC amplifier try swapping it with another baleno. one more option you have is disconnect the battery for an hour or so( may be disconnect and leave it overnight) connect back and see it the problem still exist. i have diagram of 2000 model, so cant help. Last edited by gigy : 21st February 2009 at 00:58.
	() Thanks

21st February 2009, 09:18	#9
ac3112 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 19 Thanked: 37 Times	Thanks for the response. I could see the AC ON Tech -2 display, and the mechanic confirmed this. You may be right that it could be due to two wires getting connected, in the wiring circuit. The unfortunate part was that the MASS did not even have the circuit diagram to trace through, leave alone diagnostic kits. Shall try out some other MASS today.
	() Thanks

21st February 2009, 13:57	#10
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	Considering maruti's reputation, i doubt there is any major technical change in various car they offer. So i feel the ECU must be getting signal for 'AC on' through AC amplifier only. MASS guys must be know this much atleast, if it is so. So if this is confirmed then try for replacing AC amplifier and components down the line including climate control. ECU cannot be so unrelaible. did you try resetting it?
	() Thanks

22nd February 2009, 09:51	#12
ac3112 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 19 Thanked: 37 Times	AC problem - further update Thanks once again for your responses. Yesterday MASS (Kataria) carried out a thorough check on the ECM, AC switch, Electrical wiring. They were nice enough to not only organise a sapre ECM for checking, but also brought in an identical Baleno 2006 VxI (on a lighter side - even the color was same - but of course I did not insist on changing the number plates!!). The ECM was cleared first - it is OK The AC switch next - ok Thermostat - ok Wiring - this is the only point of suspicion. In principle, the full wiring needs to be inspected and repaired if necessary. MASS however, do not undertake repair - they can only replace the wiring - the cost ~ Rs 20,000/- for the wiring + labour - only for the AC related wiring!! I could not do any negotiation on the product quality, therefore asking for a replacement under a discounted price, since, during inspection it was detected that two of the wires in the AC line were already cut. I guess (though it may not be 100% correct), this was done at the end of first choice, when they identified the problem (the first choice warranty does not cover AC related parts). Hence, I propose to get the wiring checked and repaired by the Nasir Bhai, today. Shall keep you posted on the subsequent developments.
	() Thanks

22nd February 2009, 16:07	#13
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	i also called him and told the same, that to rule out the ECM and check the wiring part first. Last edited by SirAlec : 22nd February 2009 at 16:08.
	() Thanks

25th February 2009, 14:18	#14
crazydiablo BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore/San Francisco Posts: 854 Thanked: 24 Times View My Garage	I had the same issue in my Baleno. AC fan gets switched on even the the AC or blower switch was off. My radiater fan was not getting switched on. Both these were wiring issues. Both sorted out by wiring. In my car the issue was the wiring under the smaller fuse box in the bonnet. Some fuses were mismatched and the wiring under the box had burnt/switched. Hope this helps.oh by the way it was fixed in Bimal bangalore.
	() Thanks

28th February 2009, 21:20	#15
ac3112 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 19 Thanked: 37 Times	Solution at last! This weekend I could manage to get some time to drive to Nasir Bhai's works (Referred by Imran, who was recommended by Sir Alec). He carried out a methodical search and could finally locate the problem to be due to the pressure switch (located behind the front grille and very close to the horn) getting connected, to one of the wires connecting to the horn, due to damaged insulation!! Must say a few words about Nasir Bahi - I realised that he happens to be one of the most reliable persons in Ahmedabad in the field of ECM repairs/ resolving complex auto electric problems. Also, many of the company service technicians have a very high opinion about him. Should any one need to speak to him in emergencies he could be contacted on 09227222266. I notice a significant reduction in RPM without AC (it was ~ 850 - 900 with & now ~ 650 without). I hope they are in the right zone - comments welcome! There are no undue vibrations, and pick-up is ok. Thank you all . I hope to return back to this forum to share the Baleno experience!! Wonder how Maruti could afford to stop production of this car! Intend (not sure though) to do Ahmedabad-Kolkata-Ahmedabad this summer - inputs on the road conditions/ route, welcome.
	() Thanks