Transverse vs Longitudinal

v1p3r · 3rd June 2005, 23:42

Hey,

This question maybe rather elementary, but I can't get past it.

All the "new" cars, Marutis OHCs etc, are FWD. Their engines are all transversely mounted. Is the same true for the Ambys and Fiats? How does one mount an Esteem engine in a Fiat (assuming the Fiat is RWD)? Is this possible at all?

I hope that the Fiat is actually an RWD!

Shan2nu · 3rd June 2005, 23:46

I dunno if it's possible to mount a FWD engine on a RWD car. Even if it's possible, you might have to make a lot of modifications. Maybe Dom and Psycho can tell us a lot more about this.

Shan2nu

Psycho · 4th June 2005, 00:04

Well Transverse mounting is done to save space and it is more effective when you have a FWD. However please remember all engines have to be connected to a gearbox and the direction of the gearbox can be longitudnal(RWD or AWD) or traverse(FWD). An engine can be mated to a gearbox in either way for the requirements.

You can move an engine from a FWD car and mate it to RWD car's gearbox. This would however require the following to be done:

1) Alignment of the engine to the drive line
2) Mating plate between the gearbox and the engine
3) Custom mounting brackets to be made within the engine bay

There as you asked : You can move an esteems engine into a premier padmini / amby.

v1p3r · 4th June 2005, 17:25

Thanks, Psycho. That was very helpful. Is there any car in Bangalore that has this done to it? Or is there any way of seeing a project like this in the flesh?

GTO · 4th June 2005, 18:13

Quote:

However please remember all engines have to be connected to a gearbox and the direction of the gearbox can be longitudnal(RWD or AWD) or traverse(FWD).

Any chance of graphics to illustrate this?

Thanks

GTO

Shan2nu · 4th June 2005, 18:16

Quote:

Any chance of graphics to illustrate this?

Yeah, i'm interested in the positioning of the flywheel in FWD and RWD engines. I've seen the one on the RWD maruti van, it's right there, just where the front seats end (as the engine is under the seat).

Shan2nu

Shan2nu · 4th June 2005, 18:19

This is how a transverse FWD engine is mounted.
Transverse FWD engine

But i think most FWD cars in India have their transmissions under the engine.

Here's another good site that shows various transmission options - transmission options

Shan2nu

Mpower · 4th June 2005, 22:00

Quote:

1) Alignment of the engine to the drive line
2) Mating plate between the gearbox and the engine
3) Custom mounting brackets to be made within the engine bay
There as you asked : You can move an esteems engine into a premier padmini / amby.

Well, MUL has already done this for you.....all you have to do is to source an engine+trans from either the Versa or the Gypsy-King and pop it into your Padmini. Would recomend that you use the Maruti gearbox as well, that way you don't have to worry about alignment and mating plates.

v1p3r · 4th June 2005, 22:18

Any graphics on the transverse mounting for RWD, please? I can't seem to find any.

Mpower · 4th June 2005, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Any graphics on the transverse mounting for RWD, please? I can't seem to find any.

There are no RWDs with transverse engines. Only ones I can think of are the Elise and NSX, but they are transverse-mid.

Shan2nu · 4th June 2005, 22:30

Quote:

Only ones I can think of are the Elise and NSX

Isn't the Ariel Atom too a transverse mid/rear engined RWD?

Shan2nu

Mpower · 4th June 2005, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Isn't the Ariel Atom too a transverse mid/rear engined RWD?

Yup that one too. Also the Noble M12 GTR. There may be some more too....nothing mainstream.

iceman91 · 5th June 2005, 10:40

shantanu gear box does not come below the engine, generally it is beside it.

Vid6639 · 3rd June 2009, 16:34

Firstly sorry to dig up a 4 year old thread, but I think this post is suitable here.

We all know the space advantage the transverse mounted engine has over the longitudinal and the longitudinal advantage with gearbox mating.

What I'm talking of is the orientation of the engine when mounted transversely.

I'm used to seeing the transversely mounted engines with the intake manifold, injectors near the firewall at the back and the exhaust side at the front behind the front bumper.

But these days I'm seeing a trend of manufacturers opting to mount the engine transversely, with the intake, throttle body, injector rails just behind the front bumper and the exhaust near the firewall.

I am not able to see any major advantage in this design. I've heard few opinions but I'm not entirely convinced. One is by locating the exhaust near the firewall, the distance is lesser for the exhaust gases to travel so more efficiency. But when you observe closely the bend in the exhaust is nearly 90 degrees. The older arrangement seems to be much more smoother curve. The other theory is since the intake side is behind the front bumper it gets cooler air.

According to me this new orientation looks to be a disadvantage. If you have a frontal impact, the intake manifold will be the first to get hit which is more expensive to replace than the headers which may get bent incase of frontal impact. Secondly keeping the exhaust near the firewall with a lot of heat insulation will reduce the AC effect since the firewall will have more heat.

The car's I've noticed so far with this orientation are ANHC, Mitsubishi Outlander, Hyundai i20, Toyota Altis. In the i20 there is a huge cable (accelerator cable) running over the engine from the firewall to the other side throttle body which is an eyesore.

So what are the expert's opinions on this engine layout. Also, any other cars, people have noticed with this layout.

ImmortalZ · 3rd June 2009, 21:22

I think the direction of the intake/exhaust has more to do with the head design than anything else. In a Civic, the exhaust (and the close mounted catcon) faces the road. In every other new generation Honda with a K series engine, the intake comes in the front including the Civic Type R/Si.

As for why, I haven't the faintest idea. I do know that the R18 was designed from the ground up for economy/emissions. The catcon mounted right next to the engine is for speedy heat up and thus lower start up emissions. They also use plastic intake runners for emissions/economy reasons. Those can't be very rigid...

In the end, I do not know. Good question viddy. I'm very much looking forward to more forumites' theories.

3rd June 2005, 23:42	#1
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Transverse vs Longitudinal Hey, This question maybe rather elementary, but I can't get past it. All the "new" cars, Marutis OHCs etc, are FWD. Their engines are all transversely mounted. Is the same true for the Ambys and Fiats? How does one mount an Esteem engine in a Fiat (assuming the Fiat is RWD)? Is this possible at all? I hope that the Fiat is actually an RWD!
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 23:46	#2
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	I dunno if it's possible to mount a FWD engine on a RWD car. Even if it's possible, you might have to make a lot of modifications. Maybe Dom and Psycho can tell us a lot more about this. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

4th June 2005, 00:04	#3
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,043 Thanked: 110 Times View My Garage	Well Transverse mounting is done to save space and it is more effective when you have a FWD. However please remember all engines have to be connected to a gearbox and the direction of the gearbox can be longitudnal(RWD or AWD) or traverse(FWD). An engine can be mated to a gearbox in either way for the requirements. You can move an engine from a FWD car and mate it to RWD car's gearbox. This would however require the following to be done: 1) Alignment of the engine to the drive line 2) Mating plate between the gearbox and the engine 3) Custom mounting brackets to be made within the engine bay There as you asked : You can move an esteems engine into a premier padmini / amby.
	() Thanks

4th June 2005, 17:25	#4
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Thanks, Psycho. That was very helpful. Is there any car in Bangalore that has this done to it? Or is there any way of seeing a project like this in the flesh?
	() Thanks

4th June 2005, 18:19	#7
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	This is how a transverse FWD engine is mounted. Transverse FWD engine But i think most FWD cars in India have their transmissions under the engine. Here's another good site that shows various transmission options - transmission options Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 4th June 2005 at 18:44.
	() Thanks

4th June 2005, 22:18	#9
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Any graphics on the transverse mounting for RWD, please? I can't seem to find any.
	() Thanks

5th June 2005, 10:40	#13
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	shantanu gear box does not come below the engine, generally it is beside it.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2009, 16:34	#14
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,729 Thanked: 43,464 Times View My Garage	Firstly sorry to dig up a 4 year old thread, but I think this post is suitable here. We all know the space advantage the transverse mounted engine has over the longitudinal and the longitudinal advantage with gearbox mating. What I'm talking of is the orientation of the engine when mounted transversely. I'm used to seeing the transversely mounted engines with the intake manifold, injectors near the firewall at the back and the exhaust side at the front behind the front bumper. But these days I'm seeing a trend of manufacturers opting to mount the engine transversely, with the intake, throttle body, injector rails just behind the front bumper and the exhaust near the firewall. I am not able to see any major advantage in this design. I've heard few opinions but I'm not entirely convinced. One is by locating the exhaust near the firewall, the distance is lesser for the exhaust gases to travel so more efficiency. But when you observe closely the bend in the exhaust is nearly 90 degrees. The older arrangement seems to be much more smoother curve. The other theory is since the intake side is behind the front bumper it gets cooler air. According to me this new orientation looks to be a disadvantage. If you have a frontal impact, the intake manifold will be the first to get hit which is more expensive to replace than the headers which may get bent incase of frontal impact. Secondly keeping the exhaust near the firewall with a lot of heat insulation will reduce the AC effect since the firewall will have more heat. The car's I've noticed so far with this orientation are ANHC, Mitsubishi Outlander, Hyundai i20, Toyota Altis. In the i20 there is a huge cable (accelerator cable) running over the engine from the firewall to the other side throttle body which is an eyesore. So what are the expert's opinions on this engine layout. Also, any other cars, people have noticed with this layout.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2009, 21:22	#15
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,179 Thanked: 488 Times View My Garage	I think the direction of the intake/exhaust has more to do with the head design than anything else. In a Civic, the exhaust (and the close mounted catcon) faces the road. In every other new generation Honda with a K series engine, the intake comes in the front including the Civic Type R/Si. As for why, I haven't the faintest idea. I do know that the R18 was designed from the ground up for economy/emissions. The catcon mounted right next to the engine is for speedy heat up and thus lower start up emissions. They also use plastic intake runners for emissions/economy reasons. Those can't be very rigid... In the end, I do not know. Good question viddy. I'm very much looking forward to more forumites' theories.
	() Thanks