Siena1.6 - Strange problem

Rtech · 4th July 2005, 15:30

This could be a fuel pump on its last legs. Happened to my Astra before it finally gave up.

Or

it could be an ECU problem, which is more likely. Only a rig up to a scanner can tell you what the problem would be in this case, so take it to the A.S.S.

nitinbhag · 4th July 2005, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

So, if the battery is weak, it's unable to recharge itself in time for the next crank.........
He's already said that it starts perfectly after 1-2 hours and not before that. The 5 day statement was just an example to say that after 2 hours of waiting, it doesn't matter how long he keeps the car switched of. The problem only occurs for the first 1-2 hours.

Shan: Carrying the debate further, if it is a weak battery issue, it should be giving me starting trouble at traffic lights as well. But no, it fires within a second of cranking. Also, the new Amaron battery is sealed. Cant open the cells for water check like my earlier Exide one. Do the Amaron sealed units need maintenance?

Rehaan: My car is not allergic, but my wife is allergic to lots of things, including, I suspect, ME.

Had seen this interesting story some time back. That was what triggered the vapor lock question. In fact, tried out some validation yesterday. Left the car in the sun for 20-90 min intervals 3 times. Started well each time, though it took a longish crank after the 20 min interval. So this theory looks disproved as of now.

Rtech: I had a probable fuel pump/ignition coil issue when the car simply died when driving back to Blr after a 50 Km run, around 3 months ago. It wouldnt start or run. But when the Sundaram mechanic came next day, no problem at all. It started well and drove 30KM without issues. Got it serviced and that was it, no problem for 3 months. Sundaram offered to change the fuel pump for 8K INR but were not sure that was the problem, so then I did not get it changed.

Will probably go to Sundaram on the weekend. Will report on what they find.

Thanks
Nitin

Shan2nu · 4th July 2005, 16:03

Maybe your car just likes being "Cranky" at times. hehe.

Get everything checked and let us know what really caused it. It could be anything.

Shan2nu

speedsatya · 4th July 2005, 16:07

check the plug wires or the compression .this is what a garage guy told me.

Trueno20v · 4th July 2005, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

This could be a fuel pump on its last legs.

I second that.

nitinbhag · 2nd August 2005, 17:28

Folks.. here is an update to the 'cranky' problem

The car spent 5 days at Sundaram garage (partly because I fell sick and did not follow-up)..

They used the engine examiner on it, cleaned all fuel lines, checked all ignition wiring, checked fuel pump, opened up fuel tank to check for sediment.
After all this, the source of the problem has NOT been found. In fact, the car started perfectly all the time it was in the garage so they did not experience the problem. Before going to the garage it refused to start 6 times in 2 weeks !!!

Have go the car y'day and will watch out for the problem. Hopefully it will 'just go away'. If it repeats, Rudra, need your help with Sundaram !!

Meanwhile, Sundaram are contacting FIAT to get support on this.

nitinbhag · 18th October 2005, 15:56

Here is the closure to this thread and hope it helps other Fiat owners...

The problem (engine not firing) kept getting worse and more frequent. Finally, one day it refused to start when I left office for home. Called in Sundaram mobile service next morning. Luckily, the mechanic who came, Madhu, was very competent. He had me do some tests like checking for spark, etc, while I was on the phone with him.

He traced the problem to a TDC sensor, which is a magnetic sensor on the bottom of the crankcase which senses the crankshaft position and sends a signal to the ECU to initiate firing in the cylinders. He came with a spare sensor, replaced it and the car started. Since then it has been starting fine for over 2 months now. Cost of spare + service RS 1400.

This is one time that FIAT service really showed what they can be capable of. I am quite happy with them.

navin · 18th October 2005, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

This could be a fuel pump on its last legs. Happened to my Astra before it finally gave up. .

I second this. It happens to my Astra too. Since the fule pump is located under the rear seat (under teh metal) I just take lift the seat rap the metal firmly with a nylon headed hammer and voila.

shuvc · 18th October 2005, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

I second this. It happens to my Astra too. Since the fule pump is located under the rear seat (under teh metal) I just take lift the seat rap the metal firmly with a nylon headed hammer and voila.

Absolutely off topic and with all due respect to @navin !

@Navin seems to be pretty adept at scaring the s**t out of malfunctioning automobile parts and accessories with hammers and screwdrivers. Wonder what else he would have achieved if he was also allowed to use tweezers

(ref audio thread too)

amit · 18th October 2005, 17:18

Quote:

Luckily, the mechanic who came, Madhu, was very competent.

He was definately competant! Other mechanics couldn't trace the problem and Madhu knew exactly what was going on. Great Guy. You should contact fiat and tell them to employ more people like him.

Quote:

This is one time that FIAT service really showed what they can be capable of. I am quite happy with them.

As they say, a good dealer makes or breaks the companies image.

Quote:

In fact, the car started perfectly all the time it was in the garage so they did not experience the problem.

I don't know why almost all cars have this weird habit! All the problems disappear when you take it to the dealership and you can't do anything because the dealer is like "what problem?" and you get

. My Matiz had the habit of working perfectly at the dealership too!

navin · 18th October 2005, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuvc

Absolutely off topic and with all due respect to @navin !

@Navin seems to be pretty adept at scaring the s**t out of malfunctioning automobile parts and accessories with hammers and screwdrivers.

sorry guys. I was just sugessting a temp fix. The rap unsticks the fuel pump.

I also seem to have a knack of being off topic most of the time. :-)

streetlife · 18th October 2005, 20:21

hey dude
check the batteries first off all.........if no problem
then it might be your altinator fix it and you are ready to go...

warchild · 25th October 2007, 17:59

hey all

I know this is an old thread, even my car had similar problem since yesterday,
same solution... greentracks were i service my car diagnosed it as a TDC sensor problem.
after replacing the part its running fine.

i want to know from the experts what can make this sensor malfunction?

thanks

TURBOSAM · 26th October 2007, 08:32

assuming that the fuel quality is good, get the temperature and pressure sensor<unitized in one> cleened by carb and choke cleener <its on the black -inlet manifild-firewall side>and replace the rpm and tdc sensor<they are one and the same>
the problem will be solved .
there is little that can go wrong in 1.6 engine.
rpm and t.d.c sensor costs @ 800 rs.+labour charges
pressure and temp sensor cleening will cos t u @ 100 rs spray+ labour

4th July 2005, 15:30	#16
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	This could be a fuel pump on its last legs. Happened to my Astra before it finally gave up. Or it could be an ECU problem, which is more likely. Only a rig up to a scanner can tell you what the problem would be in this case, so take it to the A.S.S.
	() Thanks

4th July 2005, 16:03	#18
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Maybe your car just likes being "Cranky" at times. hehe. Get everything checked and let us know what really caused it. It could be anything. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

4th July 2005, 16:07	#19
speedsatya Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: bangalore/manga Posts: 3,169 Thanked: 738 Times View My Garage	check the plug wires or the compression .this is what a garage guy told me.
	() Thanks

2nd August 2005, 17:28	#21
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	Folks.. here is an update to the 'cranky' problem The car spent 5 days at Sundaram garage (partly because I fell sick and did not follow-up).. They used the engine examiner on it, cleaned all fuel lines, checked all ignition wiring, checked fuel pump, opened up fuel tank to check for sediment. After all this, the source of the problem has NOT been found. In fact, the car started perfectly all the time it was in the garage so they did not experience the problem. Before going to the garage it refused to start 6 times in 2 weeks !!! Have go the car y'day and will watch out for the problem. Hopefully it will 'just go away'. If it repeats, Rudra, need your help with Sundaram !! Meanwhile, Sundaram are contacting FIAT to get support on this.
	() Thanks

18th October 2005, 15:56	#22
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	Here is the closure to this thread and hope it helps other Fiat owners... The problem (engine not firing) kept getting worse and more frequent. Finally, one day it refused to start when I left office for home. Called in Sundaram mobile service next morning. Luckily, the mechanic who came, Madhu, was very competent. He had me do some tests like checking for spark, etc, while I was on the phone with him. He traced the problem to a TDC sensor, which is a magnetic sensor on the bottom of the crankcase which senses the crankshaft position and sends a signal to the ECU to initiate firing in the cylinders. He came with a spare sensor, replaced it and the car started. Since then it has been starting fine for over 2 months now. Cost of spare + service RS 1400. This is one time that FIAT service really showed what they can be capable of. I am quite happy with them.
	() Thanks

18th October 2005, 20:21	#27
streetlife BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 219 Thanked: 22 Times View My Garage	hey dude check the batteries first off all.........if no problem then it might be your altinator fix it and you are ready to go...
	() Thanks

25th October 2007, 17:59	#28
warchild BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore (Metropolis de motorheads) Posts: 62 Thanked: Once View My Garage	hey all I know this is an old thread, even my car had similar problem since yesterday, same solution... greentracks were i service my car diagnosed it as a TDC sensor problem. after replacing the part its running fine. i want to know from the experts what can make this sensor malfunction? thanks Last edited by warchild : 25th October 2007 at 18:07.
	() Thanks

26th October 2007, 08:32	#29
TURBOSAM BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: pune Posts: 241 Thanked: 2 Times	hi assuming that the fuel quality is good, get the temperature and pressure sensor<unitized in one> cleened by carb and choke cleener <its on the black -inlet manifild-firewall side>and replace the rpm and tdc sensor<they are one and the same> the problem will be solved . there is little that can go wrong in 1.6 engine. rpm and t.d.c sensor costs @ 800 rs.+labour charges pressure and temp sensor cleening will cos t u @ 100 rs spray+ labour
	() Thanks