Siena1.6 - Strange problem

nitinbhag · 2nd July 2005, 17:53

I drive a 4+ year old Siena1.6 in Bangalore, done 42K KM, last service done at just under 40K KM. Since the past 2-3 weeks I have been having a strange kind of starting trouble. The car starts fine every morning and evening. However, if I try to start it around 1-1.5 hours after parking it, the engine cranks but refuses to fire. Leave it alone for some time (yet to figure out exactly but 30+ min) and the car starts like nothing is wrong. Have had 3 recent episodes of this. No problem re-starting at traffic lights.

Talked to the Sundaram guys on phone but they havent seen anything like this. Asked me to get the car over to check on their engine analyser. Am yet to go.

Any experience or ideas that can help here?

Thanks
Nitin

Shan2nu · 2nd July 2005, 18:43

Yup, had the same problem on my car. It finally directed things to the battery. Got it changed and haven't faced that problem ever since.

Had big trouble on our trip to M'lore. Car started fine in the morn, went to a relative's place and after some time tried starting the car but, nothing. If you let it continue, you'll reach a point where the car wont even crank.

Also, if it turns out to be a battery related problem, replace the battery and get your starter checked by the dealer. (Just to be on the safe side)

Shan2nu

amitava · 2nd July 2005, 21:29

my guess..... is also the battery !

Rudra Sen · 2nd July 2005, 21:42

What petrol are you using? If normal, start using Injector cleaner with 91 octane at least.
Also, check the condition of your injectors. Tell Sundaram guys to do it for you. They will.. if not let me know.

Steeroid · 2nd July 2005, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Tell Sundaram guys to do it for you. They will.. if not let me know.

That sounds real sinister...

Makes one wonder if your idea of moonlighting is a protection racket...wearing dark glasses in that "bling machine" which sports "pimp" sound.

BuRnT RuBbEr · 3rd July 2005, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Tell Sundaram guys to do it for you. They will.. if not let me know.

seems like rudra sir gonna...do tandav if they dont listen

Rudra Sen · 3rd July 2005, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Makes one wonder if your idea of moonlighting is a protection racket...

No moonlighting my dear sir..we both know each other very well..as a customer..as their prestigious client's agency

zulfikar · 4th July 2005, 08:06

hi Buddy i also had the same problem some days back...
it will take a long time to start...
when i checked under the hood there was a break in the wire which goes from the sparkplug to the cap...
replaced the cable...no problem till date...

nitinbhag · 4th July 2005, 10:45

Shan/Amitava: I too had this 'complete failure to start' issue earlier, which was traced to a battery problem. Got it replaced and now I have a 1.5 year old Amaron sealed battery. Isnt this supposed to last for 3 years atleast? Also, the engine cranking sounds OK and it cranks for quite long time. A bad battery wouldnt allow long cranking, right?

Rudra: Have been using Power for the past 1 year and have been quite happy with it. Used regular for 3 years before that. Do I need to switch to Speed?

The interesting thing is the time interval from stop to start. It is the 1-2 hour window which creates the problem. Beyond that, even if the car is stationary for 5 days, it starts fine on the 6th. Verified this 3 weeks ago when I had been on a longish trip away from Blr. If it were a battery or injector problem, this shouldnt be the case, right?

Just wondering.. Could this be a vapor/air lock problem somewhere in the fuel system?

Will anyway try and make the 'pilgrimage' to Sundaram this week and see if they can isolate the problem. Is there any good garage recommendation nearer to Koramangala/HSR?

Thanks

Shan2nu · 4th July 2005, 11:21

Quote:

Isnt this supposed to last for 3 years atleast?

It depends on how often you check the water levels. Each cell has to be filled seperately. Miss one and the whole system fails. Same thing with our battery, it was just one cell that caused the whole battery to go down.

Quote:

The interesting thing is the time interval from stop to start. It is the 1-2 hour window which creates the problem. Beyond that, even if the car is stationary for 5 days, it starts fine on the 6th.

That's bcoz every time you start a car, it sources a lot of power from the battery (equal to the amount of energy consumed if you were to switch on the stereo system for a few hours). So, if the battery is weak, it's unable to recharge itself in time for the next crank.

Try it with your TV remote the next time the cells bcome weak. They perform fine in the begining, then they start fading and finally give up on you. Leave it as it is and try using it the next day, it'll work as if nothing happened.

Shan2nu

Rehaan · 4th July 2005, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

That's bcoz every time you start a car, it sources a lot of power from the battery (equal to the amount of energy consumed if you were to switch on the stereo system for a few hours). So, if the battery is weak, it's unable to recharge itself in time for the next crank.

So then in that case it would be more likely to start in 1-2hours when the batt has had some fresh juice from the alternator, as opposed to just sitting around for 5 days.

Nitinbhag,

Maybe your car is alleric to something? Ok, just kidding, but follow the link and read an interesting story, thought of it as soon as i read your first post, and then interesting to see that you are considering vapour lock.
However, it is also likely that it is a problem with the fuel or ignition system (obviously

), so start by taking it to the service center and checking the entire system on their diagnostic systems. It could be anything from a loose wire on the fuel pump, to a badly routed fuel line or a shorted wire heating up and then failing the ECU pre-check the next time you try and start up?

cya
R

Shan2nu · 4th July 2005, 14:01

Quote:

So then in that case it would be more likely to start in 1-2hours when the batt has had some fresh juice from the alternator, as opposed to just sitting around for 5 days.

He's already said that it starts perfectly after 1-2 hours and not before that. The 5 day statement was just an example to say that after 2 hours of waiting, it doesn't matter how long he keeps the car switched of.

The problem only occurs for the first 1-2 hours.

Shan2nu

tsk1979 · 4th July 2005, 14:47

He said "Engine cranks but refuses to fire". This means the battery has juice. In case of battery problem the engine wont crank.

RX135 · 4th July 2005, 14:54

Can that be vapour lock? Worth exploring.

greatDrive · 4th July 2005, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

He said "Engine cranks but refuses to fire". This means the battery has juice. In case of battery problem the engine wont crank.

It Simply means there is some kind of blockage in fuel transmission to the engine. either fuel injector are blocked or elctrical circuit is loose.

2nd July 2005, 17:53	#1
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	Siena1.6 - Strange problem I drive a 4+ year old Siena1.6 in Bangalore, done 42K KM, last service done at just under 40K KM. Since the past 2-3 weeks I have been having a strange kind of starting trouble. The car starts fine every morning and evening. However, if I try to start it around 1-1.5 hours after parking it, the engine cranks but refuses to fire. Leave it alone for some time (yet to figure out exactly but 30+ min) and the car starts like nothing is wrong. Have had 3 recent episodes of this. No problem re-starting at traffic lights. Talked to the Sundaram guys on phone but they havent seen anything like this. Asked me to get the car over to check on their engine analyser. Am yet to go. Any experience or ideas that can help here? Thanks Nitin
	() Thanks

2nd July 2005, 18:43	#2
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Yup, had the same problem on my car. It finally directed things to the battery. Got it changed and haven't faced that problem ever since. Had big trouble on our trip to M'lore. Car started fine in the morn, went to a relative's place and after some time tried starting the car but, nothing. If you let it continue, you'll reach a point where the car wont even crank. Also, if it turns out to be a battery related problem, replace the battery and get your starter checked by the dealer. (Just to be on the safe side) Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 2nd July 2005 at 23:02.
	() Thanks

2nd July 2005, 21:29	#3
amitava BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: kolkata Posts: 27 Thanked: 0 Times	my guess..... is also the battery !
	() Thanks

2nd July 2005, 21:42	#4
Rudra Sen Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,590 Thanked: 6,532 Times View My Garage	What petrol are you using? If normal, start using Injector cleaner with 91 octane at least. Also, check the condition of your injectors. Tell Sundaram guys to do it for you. They will.. if not let me know.
	() Thanks

4th July 2005, 08:06	#8
zulfikar BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 532 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	hi Buddy i also had the same problem some days back... it will take a long time to start... when i checked under the hood there was a break in the wire which goes from the sparkplug to the cap... replaced the cable...no problem till date...
	() Thanks

4th July 2005, 10:45	#9
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	Shan/Amitava: I too had this 'complete failure to start' issue earlier, which was traced to a battery problem. Got it replaced and now I have a 1.5 year old Amaron sealed battery. Isnt this supposed to last for 3 years atleast? Also, the engine cranking sounds OK and it cranks for quite long time. A bad battery wouldnt allow long cranking, right? Rudra: Have been using Power for the past 1 year and have been quite happy with it. Used regular for 3 years before that. Do I need to switch to Speed? The interesting thing is the time interval from stop to start. It is the 1-2 hour window which creates the problem. Beyond that, even if the car is stationary for 5 days, it starts fine on the 6th. Verified this 3 weeks ago when I had been on a longish trip away from Blr. If it were a battery or injector problem, this shouldnt be the case, right? Just wondering.. Could this be a vapor/air lock problem somewhere in the fuel system? Will anyway try and make the 'pilgrimage' to Sundaram this week and see if they can isolate the problem. Is there any good garage recommendation nearer to Koramangala/HSR? Thanks
	() Thanks

4th July 2005, 14:47	#13
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	He said "Engine cranks but refuses to fire". This means the battery has juice. In case of battery problem the engine wont crank.
	() Thanks

4th July 2005, 14:54	#14
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	Can that be vapour lock? Worth exploring.
	() Thanks