M800 - Starting Problem

vijaypalsingh · 5th November 2009, 12:17

My M800 is a April 2005 model. Due to some neglect the car was rarely used for some time (4-5 months) in last one year. Recently while driving home one late evening the stereo, all the lights, horn etc suddenly dimmed to minimum. (Like generator losing power & then resuming all of a sudden). On cranking the accelerator the power came back & car resumed normal operation. Since then, the car starts without a problem initially but if I have to re-start the car after a short break (about 15 minutes) she wont respond. I have to then push start the car. The problem increases in evenings when headlights are on. I also lost two headlights bulbs in quick succesion. A mechanic took Rs 500 & "adjusted" the STARTER motor but problem returned within one week Now the same mechanic is asking to change the entire Starter motor (Rs 5500). Pls help.

svaid · 5th November 2009, 12:42

Get your battery and alternator checked. Make sure that the alternator is charging the battery properly.

kannan666 · 5th November 2009, 13:05

If the car starts without a problem on a cold start, I do not suspect the battery or the alternator. It looks more like a starter problem. Reasoning behind it is if the battery has enough juice to cold start the car, that means the battery is realatively good and that means the alternator has done it's job too. Am assuming that you do not have too much of load on the battery when it is running though.

esteem_lover · 5th November 2009, 13:08

Seems like a alternator regulator problem. Take her to a good electrician.

Trust_In_Thrust · 5th November 2009, 13:10

My guess is the battery .it seems one of the cells of the battery has shorted .Get the specific gravity of the all cells checked .I am pretty sure it is this only .And not alternator as you possibly cannot last much with the alternator not working.Also the starter is alright .
My source is my experience .

vijaypalsingh · 5th November 2009, 22:33

Yes Kannan, She starts very well on COLD START. If I give her a 20-30 minutes, after some drive, she starts without a hitch. Battery is NEW (one month old), Alternator was also checked when new battery was put. Pls note that problem persists even after doing all above. The problem increases if headlights & a/c is on together. As one collegue suggested I think the wriing is getting short somewhere. I also noted that if I crank ignition softly she whimpers before starting.

Trust_In_Thrust · 5th November 2009, 23:14

I again repeat pls get the cells checked .
As per my understanding this is happening;
Car will start on cold start but try switch off the ignition and restart again a few times and you will feel the battery losing power.
Drive the car with ac , lights for few kms .Switch off and restart (will possibly not start again and definitely not start after 2-3 times restart).

Also if wiring is getting shorted you will have a dead battery in morning.

Jaggu · 5th November 2009, 23:45

Switch on head lights and cabin lights and then crank the engine, watch the cabin lights, they will dim a lil bit, if they are getting dimmed to the extent of switching off, then you have an issue with battery or its connectors.

OR Take the car to an electrician and replicate the issue you face, they should be able to diagnose it fast.

sudharma · 6th November 2009, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijaypalsingh

Yes Kannan, She starts very well on COLD START. If I give her a 20-30 minutes, after some drive, she starts without a hitch. Battery is NEW (one month old), Alternator was also checked when new battery was put. Pls note that problem persists even after doing all above. The problem increases if headlights & a/c is on together. As one collegue suggested I think the wriing is getting short somewhere. I also noted that if I crank ignition softly she whimpers before starting.

I had this problem a couple of months back. problem was loose battery ground cable. Check your battery connection for corrosion / loose ground.

Also your alternator may have an intermittent problem.

Is your battery "Amaron: ?
I had a freak problem with my maruthi 800. It had a "Amaron' maintenance free battery ( 7.5 years old ) full charge all the time. While driving the car would suddenly stop in the middle of the road. Battery dead. Push start. and everything is fine. Battery full charge within a couple of minutes. No trouble for the next couple of months and then the problem repeated again. Then the problem started repeating at a lesser intervel and finally ended in a near accident with my son. Battery was replaced ASAP.

I was told by one of the service station guys that Amaron batteries are very good and long lasting but had noticed in some batteries this freak problem of suddenly going open circuit and then returning to normal after 5 or 6 years of service. Testing this battery won't give any indication of this trouble.

This is for your inmformation.

kannan666 · 6th November 2009, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijaypalsingh

Yes Kannan, She starts very well on COLD START. If I give her a 20-30 minutes, after some drive, she starts without a hitch. Battery is NEW (one month old), Alternator was also checked when new battery was put. Pls note that problem persists even after doing all above. The problem increases if headlights & a/c is on together. As one collegue suggested I think the wriing is getting short somewhere. I also noted that if I crank ignition softly she whimpers before starting.

Yes, wiring shorting might be a problem but I also feel that you are somewhat overloading the circuit meaning you may be drawing more power from the battery than it is designed for when running the car especially in the nights with the headlights on (BTW are they standard headlights ? ) and hence the alternator is not being able to cope with the charging. Check out what Jaggu says above, that should hopefully solve your problem.

vijaypalsingh · 8th November 2009, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust

I again repeat pls get the cells checked .
As per my understanding this is happening;
Car will start on cold start but try switch off the ignition and restart again a few times and you will feel the battery losing power.
Drive the car with ac , lights for few kms .Switch off and restart (will possibly not start again and definitely not start after 2-3 times restart).

Also if wiring is getting shorted you will have a dead battery in morning.

You have hit the nail on head & so did JAGGU. The problem is EXACTLY as mentioned by both of you. Well the FINAL report is that the "NEW" battery was the main culprit. I got the battery changed this morning & all is in order now. A BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOU.

5th November 2009, 12:17	#1
vijaypalsingh BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chandigarh / Calgary / Mumbai Posts: 65 Thanked: 67 Times	M800 - Starting Problem My M800 is a April 2005 model. Due to some neglect the car was rarely used for some time (4-5 months) in last one year. Recently while driving home one late evening the stereo, all the lights, horn etc suddenly dimmed to minimum. (Like generator losing power & then resuming all of a sudden). On cranking the accelerator the power came back & car resumed normal operation. Since then, the car starts without a problem initially but if I have to re-start the car after a short break (about 15 minutes) she wont respond. I have to then push start the car. The problem increases in evenings when headlights are on. I also lost two headlights bulbs in quick succesion. A mechanic took Rs 500 & "adjusted" the STARTER motor but problem returned within one week Now the same mechanic is asking to change the entire Starter motor (Rs 5500). Pls help.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 12:42	#2
svaid BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 226 Thanked: 7 Times	Get your battery and alternator checked. Make sure that the alternator is charging the battery properly.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 13:05	#3
kannan666 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: KA-02 Posts: 1,002 Thanked: 128 Times View My Garage	If the car starts without a problem on a cold start, I do not suspect the battery or the alternator. It looks more like a starter problem. Reasoning behind it is if the battery has enough juice to cold start the car, that means the battery is realatively good and that means the alternator has done it's job too. Am assuming that you do not have too much of load on the battery when it is running though. Last edited by kannan666 : 5th November 2009 at 13:06.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 13:08	#4
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	Seems like a alternator regulator problem. Take her to a good electrician.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 13:10	#5
Trust_In_Thrust BANNED Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 768 Thanked: 349 Times	My guess is the battery .it seems one of the cells of the battery has shorted .Get the specific gravity of the all cells checked .I am pretty sure it is this only .And not alternator as you possibly cannot last much with the alternator not working.Also the starter is alright . My source is my experience . Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 5th November 2009 at 13:12.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 22:33	#6
vijaypalsingh BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chandigarh / Calgary / Mumbai Posts: 65 Thanked: 67 Times	Yes Kannan, She starts very well on COLD START. If I give her a 20-30 minutes, after some drive, she starts without a hitch. Battery is NEW (one month old), Alternator was also checked when new battery was put. Pls note that problem persists even after doing all above. The problem increases if headlights & a/c is on together. As one collegue suggested I think the wriing is getting short somewhere. I also noted that if I crank ignition softly she whimpers before starting.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 23:14	#7
Trust_In_Thrust BANNED Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 768 Thanked: 349 Times	I again repeat pls get the cells checked . As per my understanding this is happening; Car will start on cold start but try switch off the ignition and restart again a few times and you will feel the battery losing power. Drive the car with ac , lights for few kms .Switch off and restart (will possibly not start again and definitely not start after 2-3 times restart). Also if wiring is getting shorted you will have a dead battery in morning. Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 5th November 2009 at 23:20.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 23:45	#8
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,906 Times	Switch on head lights and cabin lights and then crank the engine, watch the cabin lights, they will dim a lil bit, if they are getting dimmed to the extent of switching off, then you have an issue with battery or its connectors. OR Take the car to an electrician and replicate the issue you face, they should be able to diagnose it fast.
	() Thanks