Do we really NEED more horsepower?

Venkatesh.C · 7th October 2007, 23:15

"With great power comes great responsibility" said Uncle Ben to Peter Parker.
So, until this country learns responsibility, it only makes better sense to limit the power.
Think a minute, if u do a 100 in your camaro, you may get away a few times. But then uncle sam will impound your vehicle before you bat an eyelid. So, you drive safe and let it rip now and then perhaps.
That kind of discipline is not there in indian roads.
First the camaro driver will go crazy in indian roads with such a beauty that cant even go beyond 30 in the day time. All of that frustration is going to bottle up and the driver will let it rip if he sees a 100 yards of free tarmac and lo! a dog will manifest from nowhere and Screeeeeeech.......

Steeroid · 7th October 2007, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by vabs78

I can't take this any more.
What are you guys doing on team-BHP?

Thanks. Its time somebody shook em up.

rks · 8th October 2007, 00:02

I personally don't feel the need for extra horsepower on most of our roads. But it is upto the individual concerned to decide whether he needs it. For me a light, maneuverable car with reasonable pickup and speed is good enough. I can do quite high speeds comfortably in my Santro, take corners with complete nonchalance and zip through the traffic.

Contrary to what many people think, I don't agree that most Indians drive rashly. Only very rarely do I encounter a vehicle being driven at sustained speeeds of 140+ kmph on the Expressway, where I drive every week. Most of the vehicles do 100-130 kmph. I would say that a vehicle would overtake my Santro maybe once in 2 months on the Expressway and almost always never on the Pune bypass road or the Sion-Panvel highway.

skandyhere · 8th October 2007, 00:11

there was a thread that discussed wishful-thinking-material such as legalising guns. it seemed so beautiful a proposition to many, until they thought about what would happen when anyone and everyone weilded guns. very similar. personally, i'd go ga-ga on a powerful piece of machinery myself. why would i refuse!

AND, i'd consider myself a great driver who can handle the responsibility, of course. every living soul would too, and it's sane to think about the mayhem that follows from a million monstrous drivers driving such cars.

this topic's pushing two parallel thought-schools into needless dispute. i'll sign off. but this is what it is - people just seek pleasure as the ultimate. and any thinking that detracts from this lofty goal in life is dismissed with contempt. no offense meant to anyone in particular. we all have our weaknesses, and i surely have my own. let's be done with this.

revvhed · 13th October 2007, 13:14

@ skandy ... while i do understand where you're coming from, you cannot deny progress because of indiscipline. Going by your arguments we should have banned the Maruti 800 too. Think about it, were we not safer driving Fiats and Amby's ? After all they had "gentle" pick-up and not so high speeds, and like you've said before in one of your posts, those were the good 'ol days where there were much fewer accidents. Then along comes the Maruti 800, 40bhp, light body, great pick-up (relatively) and a higher top speed. By your logic we didn't deserve it !! Yes, there were fewer accidents in the good 'ol days because there were a lot fewer cars. You will agree here that the car population has grown more than exponentially. See, you can't just say "they don't have the discipline so don't let them have powerful cars". You have to instill the discipline and teach people that along with power comes responsibility. I, for one, don't buy your argument that the no. of accidents will increase. A simple example is the Mumbai - Pune expressway. When it was built there were a lot of accidents because people in India were not used to the concept of high speeds and were subsequently unaware of how a car handles at high speed. Most importantly, the significance of good tyres was not realised. Then there were accidents and tyre blow outs and the press went to town about how the expressway was unsafe and accident prone. So what should we have done then ? Shut down the expressway ?? By the same logic we could have said, "We don't have the skill to drive at high speeds yet so we're just causing accidents by giving Indians high speed roads". But look at the difference now. You hardly learn of any accidents on the expressway anymore because people have now learnt (relatively .. relatively .. it's all relative) how to drive at speed and have realised the importance of having good tyres for the high speeds. This is progress my friend. Your view of denying people powerful cars because of indiscipline is, in my opinion, a communistic way of thinking. After all, who's to decide when we're disciplined enough ??

kaynmantis · 13th October 2007, 17:39

1. Do we really NEED more horsepower? - NO
2. Do we really WANT more horsepower? - YES

Do we really need to mod our car? Do we really need those insane ICE?

Dude, Its the feel-good factor. And the market knows it. Vanity is a part of being human.

BUSA · 13th October 2007, 21:23

Do we really need more horsepower - No.

But what we really need more is torque

Sam Kapasi · 13th October 2007, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaynmantis

Do we really need to mod our car? Do we really need those insane ICE?

Do we really need to mod our car? NO!

Do we really need those insane ICE? YES!

CrAzY dRiVeR · 13th October 2007, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSA

Do we really need more horsepower - No.

But what we really need more is torque

Says the guy who
has a Pete'd swift DDiS
wants Pete'd Getz CRDi &
dreams of Pete'd Magnum TCDi...

kpzen · 13th October 2007, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Says the guy who
has a Pete'd swift DDiS
wants Pete'd Getz CRDi &
dreams of Pete'd Magnum TCDi...

Also the Safari 2.2 with Italian Pete's.

BUSA · 13th October 2007, 22:17

Kpzen and Crazy Driver - You guys just stole the words straight out of my mouth

ST7677 · 13th October 2007, 22:25

Ahhh....

What a co-incidence. On a forum whose name is Team BHPone of the moderator asks this question whether we need more power...
Looks like some deep introspection going on... he he he (just kidding)

Saw some discussion if we need more power with comments about scenario in India and the lack of discipline here.
Well, part of discipline includes staying within the speed limits which maxes out at 100 in India.
Let me tell you that most other countries have similar traffic situations and even in those countries (except a very rare few) speed limits maxes out at 70mph...

Why only us, Why would ANY ONE need more power than what all street cars have to reach 70 mph (even a maruti reaches there with some effort).

Personally, It depends on the mood and the drive. Sometimes you want to enjoy the exhileration and need more power (both Torque and BHP) and sometimes you just want an easy and convenient point A to B drive with adequate power.

I have two cars for the same reason. I use Civic for the occasional exhilerating experience, and the other small car for the daily drive to office.

My max speed on Civic is 209 kmph in India. My small car would probably beat it in City bumper to bumper traffic, but it stands no chance otherwise

drpullockaran · 14th October 2007, 00:07

Every Friday I travel 103km from my house at Cochin to one of my places of work at the Palghat border. I have both the Junkindica

on a diesel diet and a Palio

GTX running on LPG gas.

I have timed the journey on every single trip and here is my finding.
When using the GTX I cover the distance in 1hr and 40min. I drive at a sedate pace and never rev the engine above 4200rpm in any gear and never go above 110kmph. I reach the destination relaxed and fresh and am yearning for the drive back home. I never have to preplan an over taking maneuver and a dab of the throttle gets me past slow moving traffic. In all I spend less time on the road and more importantly less time on the wrong side of the road while overtaking and all the time doing sane speeds.

Now coming to my Junkindica. I take 2hr and 25min to cover the same distance and at the same time of the day and with similar traffic to contend with. I am forced to rev the engine to attain any speed at all and have had my jewels in my mouth on more than one occasion when attempting to overtake any other slow moving traffic. I spend more time on the wrong side of the road while overtaking and it requires great amount of preplanning. The peak speeds I drive in both cars is the same but I get to 100kmph in a jiffy in my GTX. I dread having to take the Junkindica to work and curse myself preparing the drive back home from work.

I guess you have the gist of my long post. I love torque/bhp not to reach insane peak speeds but to reach my 100kmph faster. No guesses on which car I love to take to work.
The icing on the cake is that the GTX turns out to be cheaper by a few tens of rupees on fuel costs alone let alone maintainence costs.

If I take into account the rupees spent on maintaining my Junkindica I could have bought another second hand Maruti 800 for my wife and the only reason I am keeping it is to tide over the consumer court case I have with the manufacturers/service agents of my Junkindica.

My final take on this topic is this " You can use a knife to cut a persons throat to save a mans life in an emergency situation(tracheostomy) or take his life by slashing slightly deeper" The sharper the knife(more torque/bhp) the better for both purposes and its up to oneself how far they want to go through with it.
Tracheotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bye and wear your seat belts.

cheap_deal · 14th October 2007, 00:55

do we really need more HP?
answer is a very simple yes, not just HP but also torque. i love it both. no matter which part of the world i live in, yes i would love more power.
IMO the honda civic is a slow car, so is the bmw 325i. a moderately powerful car would be a 350z and an insanely powerful one would be a lp640 or atleast a z06.

blue2ki · 14th October 2007, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap_deal

do we really need more HP?
answer is a very simple yes, not just HP but also torque. i love it both. no matter which part of the world i live in, yes i would love more power.
IMO the honda civic is a slow car, so is the bmw 325i. a moderately powerful car would be a 350z and an insanely powerful one would be a lp640 or atleast a z06.

the Z06 is killerrrr bro!! did a 0-100 in 4.5 secs or maybe even a few points less.. 580Nm of torque man!!
This guys vette had a killer FFE planted on it too, had 2.5 inch pipes, a vacuum operated butterfly valve which opens @ 2850 rpm or so, and the HOWL, the HOWL it made was INCREDIBLE!!!
the vette is unbeatable.. cheers

7th October 2007, 23:15	#61
Venkatesh.C BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 268 Thanked: 41 Times	"With great power comes great responsibility" said Uncle Ben to Peter Parker. So, until this country learns responsibility, it only makes better sense to limit the power. Think a minute, if u do a 100 in your camaro, you may get away a few times. But then uncle sam will impound your vehicle before you bat an eyelid. So, you drive safe and let it rip now and then perhaps. That kind of discipline is not there in indian roads. First the camaro driver will go crazy in indian roads with such a beauty that cant even go beyond 30 in the day time. All of that frustration is going to bottle up and the driver will let it rip if he sees a 100 yards of free tarmac and lo! a dog will manifest from nowhere and Screeeeeeech.......
	() Thanks

8th October 2007, 00:02	#63
rks BANNED Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ?? Posts: 1,238 Thanked: 17 Times	I personally don't feel the need for extra horsepower on most of our roads. But it is upto the individual concerned to decide whether he needs it. For me a light, maneuverable car with reasonable pickup and speed is good enough. I can do quite high speeds comfortably in my Santro, take corners with complete nonchalance and zip through the traffic. Contrary to what many people think, I don't agree that most Indians drive rashly. Only very rarely do I encounter a vehicle being driven at sustained speeeds of 140+ kmph on the Expressway, where I drive every week. Most of the vehicles do 100-130 kmph. I would say that a vehicle would overtake my Santro maybe once in 2 months on the Expressway and almost always never on the Pune bypass road or the Sion-Panvel highway. Last edited by rks : 8th October 2007 at 00:04.
	() Thanks

8th October 2007, 00:11	#64
skandyhere BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte/Blore Posts: 347 Thanked: 92 Times	there was a thread that discussed wishful-thinking-material such as legalising guns. it seemed so beautiful a proposition to many, until they thought about what would happen when anyone and everyone weilded guns. very similar. personally, i'd go ga-ga on a powerful piece of machinery myself. why would i refuse! AND, i'd consider myself a great driver who can handle the responsibility, of course. every living soul would too, and it's sane to think about the mayhem that follows from a million monstrous drivers driving such cars. this topic's pushing two parallel thought-schools into needless dispute. i'll sign off. but this is what it is - people just seek pleasure as the ultimate. and any thinking that detracts from this lofty goal in life is dismissed with contempt. no offense meant to anyone in particular. we all have our weaknesses, and i surely have my own. let's be done with this.
	() Thanks

13th October 2007, 13:14	#65
revvhed BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 184 Thanked: 30 Times	@ skandy ... while i do understand where you're coming from, you cannot deny progress because of indiscipline. Going by your arguments we should have banned the Maruti 800 too. Think about it, were we not safer driving Fiats and Amby's ? After all they had "gentle" pick-up and not so high speeds, and like you've said before in one of your posts, those were the good 'ol days where there were much fewer accidents. Then along comes the Maruti 800, 40bhp, light body, great pick-up (relatively) and a higher top speed. By your logic we didn't deserve it !! Yes, there were fewer accidents in the good 'ol days because there were a lot fewer cars. You will agree here that the car population has grown more than exponentially. See, you can't just say "they don't have the discipline so don't let them have powerful cars". You have to instill the discipline and teach people that along with power comes responsibility. I, for one, don't buy your argument that the no. of accidents will increase. A simple example is the Mumbai - Pune expressway. When it was built there were a lot of accidents because people in India were not used to the concept of high speeds and were subsequently unaware of how a car handles at high speed. Most importantly, the significance of good tyres was not realised. Then there were accidents and tyre blow outs and the press went to town about how the expressway was unsafe and accident prone. So what should we have done then ? Shut down the expressway ?? By the same logic we could have said, "We don't have the skill to drive at high speeds yet so we're just causing accidents by giving Indians high speed roads". But look at the difference now. You hardly learn of any accidents on the expressway anymore because people have now learnt (relatively .. relatively .. it's all relative) how to drive at speed and have realised the importance of having good tyres for the high speeds. This is progress my friend. Your view of denying people powerful cars because of indiscipline is, in my opinion, a communistic way of thinking. After all, who's to decide when we're disciplined enough ??
	() Thanks

13th October 2007, 17:39	#66
kaynmantis BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 191 Thanked: 9 Times	1. Do we really NEED more horsepower? - NO 2. Do we really WANT more horsepower? - YES Do we really need to mod our car? Do we really need those insane ICE? Dude, Its the feel-good factor. And the market knows it. Vanity is a part of being human.
	() Thanks

13th October 2007, 21:23	#67
BUSA Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,130 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	Do we really need more horsepower - No. But what we really need more is torque
	() Thanks

13th October 2007, 22:17	#71
BUSA Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,130 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	Kpzen and Crazy Driver - You guys just stole the words straight out of my mouth
	() Thanks

13th October 2007, 22:25	#72
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Ahhh.... What a co-incidence. On a forum whose name is Team BHPone of the moderator asks this question whether we need more power... Looks like some deep introspection going on... he he he (just kidding) Saw some discussion if we need more power with comments about scenario in India and the lack of discipline here. Well, part of discipline includes staying within the speed limits which maxes out at 100 in India. Let me tell you that most other countries have similar traffic situations and even in those countries (except a very rare few) speed limits maxes out at 70mph... Why only us, Why would ANY ONE need more power than what all street cars have to reach 70 mph (even a maruti reaches there with some effort). Personally, It depends on the mood and the drive. Sometimes you want to enjoy the exhileration and need more power (both Torque and BHP) and sometimes you just want an easy and convenient point A to B drive with adequate power. I have two cars for the same reason. I use Civic for the occasional exhilerating experience, and the other small car for the daily drive to office. My max speed on Civic is 209 kmph in India. My small car would probably beat it in City bumper to bumper traffic, but it stands no chance otherwise
	() Thanks

14th October 2007, 00:07	#73
drpullockaran BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ERNAKULAM Posts: 962 Thanked: 385 Times	I have a different take on this. Every Friday I travel 103km from my house at Cochin to one of my places of work at the Palghat border. I have both the Junkindica on a diesel diet and a Palio GTX running on LPG gas. I have timed the journey on every single trip and here is my finding. When using the GTX I cover the distance in 1hr and 40min. I drive at a sedate pace and never rev the engine above 4200rpm in any gear and never go above 110kmph. I reach the destination relaxed and fresh and am yearning for the drive back home. I never have to preplan an over taking maneuver and a dab of the throttle gets me past slow moving traffic. In all I spend less time on the road and more importantly less time on the wrong side of the road while overtaking and all the time doing sane speeds. Now coming to my Junkindica. I take 2hr and 25min to cover the same distance and at the same time of the day and with similar traffic to contend with. I am forced to rev the engine to attain any speed at all and have had my jewels in my mouth on more than one occasion when attempting to overtake any other slow moving traffic. I spend more time on the wrong side of the road while overtaking and it requires great amount of preplanning. The peak speeds I drive in both cars is the same but I get to 100kmph in a jiffy in my GTX. I dread having to take the Junkindica to work and curse myself preparing the drive back home from work. I guess you have the gist of my long post. I love torque/bhp not to reach insane peak speeds but to reach my 100kmph faster. No guesses on which car I love to take to work. The icing on the cake is that the GTX turns out to be cheaper by a few tens of rupees on fuel costs alone let alone maintainence costs. If I take into account the rupees spent on maintaining my Junkindica I could have bought another second hand Maruti 800 for my wife and the only reason I am keeping it is to tide over the consumer court case I have with the manufacturers/service agents of my Junkindica. My final take on this topic is this " You can use a knife to cut a persons throat to save a mans life in an emergency situation(tracheostomy) or take his life by slashing slightly deeper" The sharper the knife(more torque/bhp) the better for both purposes and its up to oneself how far they want to go through with it. Tracheotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Bye and wear your seat belts. Last edited by drpullockaran : 14th October 2007 at 00:20.
	() Thanks

14th October 2007, 00:55	#74
cheap_deal BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: unknown Posts: 465 Thanked: 8 Times	do we really need more HP? answer is a very simple yes, not just HP but also torque. i love it both. no matter which part of the world i live in, yes i would love more power. IMO the honda civic is a slow car, so is the bmw 325i. a moderately powerful car would be a 350z and an insanely powerful one would be a lp640 or atleast a z06.
	() Thanks