[SS-Traveller]

Tell him not to worry. This is a common issue with older cars, where the refrigerant used was R-12 (a CFC, harmful to the ozone layer). This has been replaced by R-134a, but this requires some changes to be carried out to the oil seals etc. (R134a tends to melt the oil seals in the compressor and other places, causing leaks - the expense for such seal replacement would be at least 3k, and requires someone expert enough to do it). Some direct replacements are available that do not involve changing seals etc. - check here: http://www2.dupont.com/ISCEON/en_US/...guidelines.pdf. DuPont India should be able to help you out, though I don't see an office in Kolkata here: DuPont India Offices.

[scuderiamania]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Tell him not to worry. This is a common issue with older cars, where the refrigerant used was R-12 (a CFC, harmful to the ozone layer). This has been replaced by R-134a, but this requires some changes to be carried out to the oil seals etc. (R134a tends to melt the oil seals in the compressor and other places, causing leaks - the expense for such seal replacement would be at least 3k, and requires someone expert enough to do it). Some direct replacements are available that do not involve changing seals etc. - check here: http://www2.dupont.com/ISCEON/en_US/...guidelines.pdf. DuPont India should be able to help you out, though I don't see an office in Kolkata here: DuPont India Offices.

Since dupont doesn't have an office in Kolkata, is changing the seals the only option? What type [if any] of seal are you talking about]? Will standard MASS be able to take care of this issue or does he need to look elsewhere?

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by scuderiamania

Will standard MASS be able to take care of this...?

I don't expect MASS to be able to fix the issue - after all, they don't have resident AC experts employed there full time. In case a call or email to DuPont's head office doesn't yield any response, you can talk to these people...

Subros Ltd.
#1, Sambhunath Pandit Street
Lala Lajpat Rai Sarani
Kolkata
700020

Telephone: 033-22232856
Mobile: 9830868890

Website
Subros - Auto Airconditioning Systems

...and they should be able find you someone who is well-trained to either do a R12 > R134a conversion, or find Mo99 for you. In case you still can't get this worked out, let me know.

[archat68]

Go to Daga Automobiles near Exide. They will do the necessary conversion in your AC for filling R134. Will cost you 6-7K. They are very good at their job but a bit costlier.

[sandhurs1]

I am having Zen 2002 model. AC cooling had gone from bad to worse. My AC mechanic filled up the gas, cleaned condenser, but improvement was marginal. He ultimately suggested change of compressor at cost of Rs:10,000..

I does not want to sell my Zen, should I go for replacement of compressor. Can any fellow member guide me to genuine garage around Moga , Ludhiana (Punjab).

[abhipuru16]

I own a 2000 model Zen and after 13 years of soldiering on, the AC compressor (R12 variant) in my Zen seems to have given up.
I am thinking of going in for a new compressor which uses the newer R134a gas. Now,

1. What all parts would I need to change if I retain the original compressor size keeping in mind that I will now be using R134a gas and not R12?

2. Do I have any options if I want to upgrade the AC compressor just for the sake of better cooling? I do not mind the loss in power if the gains in cooling are good enough.

Please enlighten me with the various options that I have. And yes, I am more in favour of buying the necessary parts from an MGP dealer in my area, so, if there's any part that could be borrowed from some other Maruti Car for this retro-fit, please let me know.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by abhipuru16

...in favour of buying the necessary parts from an MGP dealer in my area...
...for this retro-fit...

Since you are located in Faridabad, get in touch with

Subros Limited - Service HQ
B-188, Noida Phase - II
Distt: Gautam Budh Nagar
Noida - 201 304 (U.P)
Tel.: +91-0120-2562226, 2460135
Fax: +91-0120-2562783, 2562227

for the best options for R134a conversion as well as for a new compressor.

In case you are visiting there, drop me a PM.

[abhipuru16]

^^Have you or someone you've known had an experience with them?
Please share if you can.

[msaudf]

Originally Posted by abhipuru16

I am thinking of going in for a new compressor which uses the newer R134a gas. Now,

1. What all parts would I need to change if I retain the original compressor size keeping in mind that I will now be using R134a gas and not R12?

2. Do I have any options if I want to upgrade the AC compressor just for the sake of better cooling? I do not mind the loss in power if the gains in cooling are good enough.

Some standard replacements that will be required during a normal R134 conversion are the thick rubber hoses that connect the compressor to the cooling coil which is inside the car's cabin. It is common practice to do so as my local Ac tech told me that the new gas is corrosive to normal rubber and if the OE hoses are not thick enough they simply won't last. Then the Drier will need replacing, and a complete dismantling and flushing will be required. some Ac techs say it is unnecessary but the reason behind flushing the system is that the oil used with R134 is different from the oil used in R12 and when they mix it can lower the lifespan of the compressor where proper lubrication is crucial. Any AC gurus around in T-BHP are welcome to throw some light on this topic, and correct me if I'm wrong.

An upgraded compressor from the Maruti stable would be a nice touch if you can sacrifice power. i think the esteem's compressor has relatively higher CC than that of the Zen, I'm not very sure but you can always do some research. Or the compressor unit from the Eeco or the Versa. I'm just going by the rule of thumb that bigger cabin=bigger compressor. And while you go about upgrading the AC you could also try to fit an additional thermostat by which you can control the compressor cut off temperature, so by delaying the cut off you'll get better cooling.

Cheers
Saud.

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by abhipuru16

I own a 2000 model Zen and after 13 years of soldiering on, the AC compressor (R12 variant) in my Zen seems to have given up. I am thinking of going in for a new compressor which uses the newer R134a gas.
1. What all parts would I need to change if I retain the original compressor size keeping in mind that I will now be using R134a gas and not R12 ?

On the same boat here with my 13-year old Alto. Thinking of doing a complete change of all the HVAC components for peace of mind - have been quoted ~40K by an Authorized Service-Center here for the job. Could you share any quotes you've received for the same ?

Originally Posted by msaudf

Some standard replacements that will be required during a normal R134 conversion are the thick rubber hoses that connect the compressor to the cooling coil which is inside the car's cabin. It is common practice to do so as my local Ac tech told me that the new gas is corrosive to normal rubber and if the OE hoses are not thick enough they simply won't last. Then the Drier will need replacing, and a complete dismantling and flushing will be required. some Ac techs say it is unnecessary but the reason behind flushing the system is that the oil used with R134 is different from the oil used in R12 and when they mix it can lower the lifespan of the compressor where proper lubrication is crucial.

True... Attached is a document from Sanden detailing the procedure for using an R12 compressor for R134.

SandenRetrofit.pdf

[saket77]

Originally Posted by im_srini

On the same boat here with my 13-year old Alto. [/ATTACH]

Me too with my '02 Zen. It used R-12 as of now. I tried getting if refilled with R-12 a few weeks back, but it wasn't available with even the road side mechanics!
MASS quotes at least 10-12K for changing something they call half-kit, so that the system can take R134a.

They also advised that if I am ready to gamble with Rs. 2-3K, they will try to fill R134a in the current setup. It will require change of compressor oil.

Really in doldrums, as soon it will be summers and though my AC is not completely a 'fan' as yet but certainly would struggle with peak summer on.

[norhog]

My 1997 ZEN was suffering from low cooling peformance of A/C. I filled up R134 in place of R12 due to non availability of R-12 gas. I was dead against it but talking to a few mechanics who said "" wo chalega"" and going totaly against my knowldege I did it. I did it as I was strapped for time and could not wait for the car to go to a good A/C service station and get a proper job done. The guy drained out the old gas and put some R134 lub oil then topped up the system. As per him it should last me a year before the rubber hose gives way.
Filling done on 17 April 2013. Will keep posted what happens..

[Trust_In_Thrust]

Originally Posted by abhipuru16

I own a 2000 model Zen and after 13 years of soldiering on, the AC compressor (R12 variant) in my Zen seems to have given up..................

Hi,

There are three kits OEM for Maruti Zen , Mpfi .
1.) Delphi
2.) Subros
3.) Sanden

I recently had changed my AC belt in my zen and came to know that cost of AC belt varies from inr 250 , inr450 (mine Delhi) , inr800 .This is because for each make maruti spare AC belt is different.

So if you plan to get complete system changed get expert opinion on which AC will cool best on 40+ degree celcius.I changed my Zen , 2003 compressor (8500inr) , cooling coil (6500inr) , bottle (150inr) from a distributor of Delhi in Kashmere gate in march 2012. Maruti rates were 40% higher than these.

Also Zen and Esteem have same compressors but pulley diameters are different .

Thnks
Amit

[saket77]

Hello Friends,

I got some job done on my Zen's AC the day before yesterday. As I stated in my earlier post that it uses R-12 (Delphi System), it was almost becoming impossible to find that gas. The cooling went as low as 17 degrees as measured by an electronic gauge at MASS (MSM).

They did the following:

1. Changed the compressor oil to be compatible to R134a, it took 90 ml of new oil.

2. Then flushed the system with vacuum for 15 minutes.

3. Recharged with R134a refrigerant.

4. Checked backward pressure.

Total cost of the job- 2K

Although, the AC is not chilly at the moment, but the temperature came down to 12 degrees, which was 17 degrees earlier. The guy who was working on the car was not satisfied with the cooling. He suspects that some hot oil is getting mixed with the cold air during the transport.

Next time, he wants to check the blower unit completely. But as of now, the AC is cooling better.

[chaudh2s]

The AC compressor of my 2009 zen plonked some 5-6 years back. On advise of maruti ASS, went to rohan motors (maruti ass) noida, the complex also houses sanden service centre. The old compressor was given to them for service and everything inside the old compressor (the things that can go wrong) were replaced and
this almost new compressor is in service in my zen till now. Bill was around 8K when a new one costs 21K. Regarding r134a, my car also went through this r134a retrofitment kit from maruti which costs roughly 5K but this doesn't requires any compressor change or modification. Only some pipes and the bottle with a sight glasss is changed.
Might be a few other small items too come with this kit but i donot remeber exactly. The ac puts out very cold air but exerts quite a bit of load on the engine. Avg is around 10-11kmpl in city with ac 100% on.