Pedestrian safety norms leads to a very FLIMSY car.

Sankar · 15th July 2010, 10:05

@alakarm@sancha: For the benefit of the rest of us here would it be possible for you to post few pics of the broken bumper and the broken panel member? If the pics could show us the point of impact (underneath is it?) which caused all this it would be great!

alankarm@sancha · 15th July 2010, 12:19

I will try to get the pics.

kpzen · 15th July 2010, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guna

There is another angle to the bumpers with and without metal frame inside (probably nothing to do with Pedestrian safety ).
Bumpers without metal frame will flex(like a rubber ball) while hitting something hard and come back to the original shape.
On the other hand, the bumpers with metal frame seem to go out of shape some times (if the impact was forceful enough). I have seen a specific incident involving a Jazz when the driver hit a stone which caused irreversible bend in the bottom of the front bumper.

Flexing of bumpers will depend upon the grade of plastic used and the design. i10 bumper is very flexible due to the material & also the hollow design (i.e multiple piece) whereas the Zen has one piece bumper design which is not that flexible. Non flexible bumpers can only absorb a certain amount of impact after that they will crack up whereas a flexible bumper won't crack but may get deformed.

Most car bumpers have a metal bumper supporter. Even the "FLIMSY" i10 has one.

These supporters are positioned almost at the center of radiator. Any impact on the bumper below and above the bumper support(metal) will be taken by the radiator support (plastic) depending upon the magnitude of impact and how much the bumper can absorb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alankarm@sancha

1stly I must point out that the plastic frame (called panel member in Hyundai lingo) does not flex -- it just breaks.

Absolutely no flex ?? Could you please elaborate that claim ?

A Panel member. thats a new one... Which Hyundai bodyshop is this ??

Cesc · 15th July 2010, 14:27

I seriously think the thread's title is misleading and is leading a lot of people to debate issues which are outside the thread starter's concern. Pedestrian safety norms are not leading to a 'flimsy' car. As people on this very thread have pointed out (and I too believe) that cars with equally good safety ratings for pedestrians can be designed differently as well as same design can be given effect with different choice of materials. The idea is to absorb impact and surely there are a lot of different ways to do that. So per se we can't (and should not blame) pedestrian safety for a 'FLIMSY' car. Agreed that pedestrian safety norms are leading to different designs with crumple zones and stuff but to say that they are leading to a flimsy car is taking it too far. Most if not all cars with good pedestrian safety ratings are anything but flimsy.

The real issue is the design/choice of materials adopted by Hyundai for satisfying the safety objective. The thread's title should clearly reflect that.

alankarm@sancha · 16th July 2010, 06:56

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : This is your THIRD WARNING : DO NOT DISCUSS Moderator Actions on the public forum.

MutantX · 16th July 2010, 07:01

alankaram@sancha, I am sure there are many other cars that fit this discussion. i10 might be just one of them. I am sure all new cars launched fit this category. Let us get feedback from other owners also.

Sankar · 16th July 2010, 08:44

alankarm@sancha please post the photos of the damage and the point of impact, it will help a lot.

Btw we too have an i10 which is an year and few months old. The car has had its little share of tiny front end impacts, while parking, and also a huge impact when a overtaking Wagon R smashed into our i10 when the Wagon R dude swerved to the left (and into our car) to avoid an oncoming biker. Wagon R hit our i10's front bumper (RH side) and right fender. Wagon R's front left fender and front door was badly damaged. The damage our i10 had was few scratches on the bumper and fender plus the bumper got dislocated to the left by a few mm. Nothing broke and nothing feels loose. Scratches were painted and nothing done to correct the dislocation since its not very visible unless you know its there.

The point is the car is not as delicate as its made out to be in this thread, unless maybe you hit the obstacle in a particular way which broke the plastic support inside. This is why i said few pics would help here, one with the point of impact too.

RaSing · 18th July 2010, 12:47

By the way , just a few months back when i was deciding between a i10 and swift , my friends suggested me not to buy i10 as its a very delicate car and in case of frontal collision , the damage is more than any other car

GTO · 19th July 2010, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaSing

my friends suggested me not to buy i10 as its a very delicate car

Everyone has friends, and all friends have opinions. On Team-BHP, lets discuss cars based on logic, and backed up by facts, instead of "my friends said....". You will understand why those discussions don't go anywhere.

The i10 is as sturdy or flimsy as most other Jap & Korean hatchbacks from its segment. In my books, its sufficiently modern, safe and competent (by Rs. 5 lakh standards). If you want a car that won't break on impact, buy a Jeep.

AbhiJ · 20th July 2010, 17:52

My i20 was rear ended by an alto..

I was stationary and the alto must have been at 10-15 kmph (guessing)

The impact was pretty hard. I got out the car and saw the alto had dented it front bumper, broken its grill and even severely dented the bonnet.

The i20, however, came out without a scratch. No dents on the bumper. Not even paint peeling...

blackasta · 20th July 2010, 18:33

a small testament to flimsiness and sturdiness:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post1952495

I guess the thread starter had something like this in his mind. Flimsy corolla vs sturdy S80.

AbhiJ · 20th July 2010, 19:57

Dp...

Sorry for the same..

RaSing · 22nd July 2010, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Everyone has friends, and all friends have opinions. On Team-BHP, lets discuss cars based on logic, and backed up by facts, instead of "my friends said....". You will understand why those discussions don't go anywhere.

The i10 is as sturdy or flimsy as most other Jap & Korean hatchbacks from its segment. In my books, its sufficiently modern, safe and competent (by Rs. 5 lakh standards). If you want a car that won't break on impact, buy a Jeep.

Point Taken ! i agree to the fact that every friend has his own opinion
and may or may not be logical.

alankarm@sancha · 20th August 2010, 08:27

As per my knowledge, some changes coming to the front end of the i10, to make it less flimsy. Anyone interested in buying a new one, PLEASE WAIT or reconfirm with Hyundai, in writing!!

Can not any of the soooo many esteemed contributors and moderators on this forum, compare the cars as requested by me earlier? PLEASE DO!! It will definitely help in a better and more informed buying decision!!

15th July 2010, 10:05	#61
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,766 Thanked: 9,054 Times	@alakarm@sancha: For the benefit of the rest of us here would it be possible for you to post few pics of the broken bumper and the broken panel member? If the pics could show us the point of impact (underneath is it?) which caused all this it would be great!
	() Thanks

15th July 2010, 12:19	#62
alankarm@sancha BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ajmer / Mumbai Posts: 210 Thanked: 3 Times	I will try to get the pics.
	() Thanks

15th July 2010, 14:27	#64
Cesc BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Philly, Gurgaon Posts: 651 Thanked: 286 Times	I seriously think the thread's title is misleading and is leading a lot of people to debate issues which are outside the thread starter's concern. Pedestrian safety norms are not leading to a 'flimsy' car. As people on this very thread have pointed out (and I too believe) that cars with equally good safety ratings for pedestrians can be designed differently as well as same design can be given effect with different choice of materials. The idea is to absorb impact and surely there are a lot of different ways to do that. So per se we can't (and should not blame) pedestrian safety for a 'FLIMSY' car. Agreed that pedestrian safety norms are leading to different designs with crumple zones and stuff but to say that they are leading to a flimsy car is taking it too far. Most if not all cars with good pedestrian safety ratings are anything but flimsy. The real issue is the design/choice of materials adopted by Hyundai for satisfying the safety objective. The thread's title should clearly reflect that.
	() Thanks

16th July 2010, 06:56	#65
alankarm@sancha BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ajmer / Mumbai Posts: 210 Thanked: 3 Times	Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : This is your THIRD WARNING : DO NOT DISCUSS Moderator Actions on the public forum. Last edited by GTO : 16th July 2010 at 16:35.
	() Thanks $Received Infraction$

16th July 2010, 07:01	#66
MutantX BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Madras Posts: 868 Thanked: 93 Times View My Garage	alankaram@sancha, I am sure there are many other cars that fit this discussion. i10 might be just one of them. I am sure all new cars launched fit this category. Let us get feedback from other owners also.
	() Thanks

16th July 2010, 08:44	#67
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,766 Thanked: 9,054 Times	alankarm@sancha please post the photos of the damage and the point of impact, it will help a lot. Btw we too have an i10 which is an year and few months old. The car has had its little share of tiny front end impacts, while parking, and also a huge impact when a overtaking Wagon R smashed into our i10 when the Wagon R dude swerved to the left (and into our car) to avoid an oncoming biker. Wagon R hit our i10's front bumper (RH side) and right fender. Wagon R's front left fender and front door was badly damaged. The damage our i10 had was few scratches on the bumper and fender plus the bumper got dislocated to the left by a few mm. Nothing broke and nothing feels loose. Scratches were painted and nothing done to correct the dislocation since its not very visible unless you know its there. The point is the car is not as delicate as its made out to be in this thread, unless maybe you hit the obstacle in a particular way which broke the plastic support inside. This is why i said few pics would help here, one with the point of impact too.
	() Thanks

18th July 2010, 12:47	#68
RaSing BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Delhi Posts: 180 Thanked: 204 Times	By the way , just a few months back when i was deciding between a i10 and swift , my friends suggested me not to buy i10 as its a very delicate car and in case of frontal collision , the damage is more than any other car
	() Thanks

20th July 2010, 17:52	#70
AbhiJ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kolkata Posts: 1,476 Thanked: 1,207 Times	My i20 was rear ended by an alto.. I was stationary and the alto must have been at 10-15 kmph (guessing) The impact was pretty hard. I got out the car and saw the alto had dented it front bumper, broken its grill and even severely dented the bonnet. The i20, however, came out without a scratch. No dents on the bumper. Not even paint peeling...
	() Thanks

20th July 2010, 18:33	#71
blackasta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: WB 26 Posts: 3,406 Thanked: 2,917 Times View My Garage	a small testament to flimsiness and sturdiness: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post1952495 I guess the thread starter had something like this in his mind. Flimsy corolla vs sturdy S80.
	() Thanks

20th July 2010, 19:57	#72
AbhiJ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kolkata Posts: 1,476 Thanked: 1,207 Times	Dp... Sorry for the same.. Last edited by AbhiJ : 20th July 2010 at 19:58.
	() Thanks

20th August 2010, 08:27	#74
alankarm@sancha BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ajmer / Mumbai Posts: 210 Thanked: 3 Times	As per my knowledge, some changes coming to the front end of the i10, to make it less flimsy. Anyone interested in buying a new one, PLEASE WAIT or reconfirm with Hyundai, in writing!! Can not any of the soooo many esteemed contributors and moderators on this forum, compare the cars as requested by me earlier? PLEASE DO!! It will definitely help in a better and more informed buying decision!! Last edited by alankarm@sancha : 20th August 2010 at 08:30.
	() Thanks