Intercooler placement question

tsk1979 · 11th November 2005, 15:35

An intercooler is supposed to cool the air going into turbo, right?
Now in an NA indica, ever felt the top part of the engine? you can actually boil water there. Then why has tata placed the intercooler up there. Granted there is an air scoop for the cool air to rush in, what about low speeds? I did not see any fan there to pull in cool air.
By my reconing the intercooler will be pretty hot. Infact due to all the sound deadening material, anywhere inside the indica hood will be hot.
Techies here, any ideas?

Rtech · 11th November 2005, 15:58

What hoodscoop? I don't see one in the photo's of the Indica Turbo.

Steeroid · 11th November 2005, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

What hoodscoop? I don't see one in the photo's of the Indica Turbo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

What hoodscoop? I don't see one in the photo's of the Indica Turbo.

Its INSIDE the hood. A black FRP or ABS job which starts off at the grille, allegedly to provide a separate air duct for the Intercooler.

That said, the output figures seem to suggest that the I/C is doing its job somehow.

tsk1979 · 11th November 2005, 16:02

Oops, its not exactly a hoodscoop, but the air scoop is just below the bonnet. They suck in air from the top of the front grill

MustangMan · 11th November 2005, 16:05

The plumbing required to put the intercooler in the front will defeat the purpose of the cooler. It will get heat from the engine. the subaru wrx also has the ic on the top, but has a dedicated hood scoop.

11th November 2005, 16:07

Normally Heat transfers in three ways:
- Conduction (one can boil by water condution if they are directly connected)
- Convection
- Radiation.

We can rule out condution of heat from Engine to intercooler as they are not directly connected.

About Radiation: this will not be prominent till one reacher more than 400 DegC.

Now we have left out with convection. We have two modes of convective heat transfers.
-- Hot air blown over Engine top to Intercooler Fins. But this air cannot go easily into intercooler fins(there is obstruction coming via air-duct)
-- Cool air coming via air-duct to intercooler fins(this duct more or less snugly fits with Intercoller cooling fins)

So with the limited space and degree of freedom, they have done some thing which improves current system

veyron1 · 11th November 2005, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

An intercooler is supposed to cool the air going into turbo, right?

err...actually, the intercooler is supposed to cool the hot air blown from the turbo, and feed it into the intake manifold...

the indica turbo, and the indigo have tiny engine bays, and intercooler mounting behind the front bumper is next to impossible because of space restrictions (the radiator, chassis, etc. occupy that area). therefore, i'm guessing tata thought it best to place the intercooler above the head; although the current design for intercooler mounting isn't optimal, it does serve it's purpose....but perhaps if the intercooler was mounted in front, behind the bumper, i believe it could have been more efficient; maybe a few more horses could have been squeezed out from the 1.4 powerplant....

but if you're interested in aftermarket fitments, maybe you could go in for a CRYo system...

Mpower · 11th November 2005, 21:40

I also have doubts about the efficiency of that intercooler. There's hardly any space for the air to come in and nowhere really to go.
Impreza also uses a top mount I/C but has a large hood scoop and since its a boxer, the engine is really low and there's lots of room for
an exit path for the air. 05 Mini Cooper S is another top mounter and also has a hood scoop.

The difference between the intercooled and non-intercooled version of the Indigo is not much and that tells you how effective it really is.

They may have packaging issues with a front mount I/C. If you are willing to get a aftermarket front bumper, then youcan try mounting it up front, but the
longer plumbing will adversly affect throttle response and lag.

nitrous · 11th November 2005, 23:10

Another reason the intercooler is not placed behind the air dam in the bumper is because of road condition, weather, dust, etc.. in our country which can reduce the life of the intercooler.

hell_rider · 21st March 2007, 22:06

this was exactly what I have been wondering about. w.r.t. the same, I have found this link:
AutoSpeed - DIY Budget Intercooler Fitment

basically, he's fashioned a fan much like a CPU fan that sits coupled to the intercooler.

Could we have some opinions on the efficiency of this technique ??? Is it being used by anybody ??

opinions please.

pawan · 21st March 2007, 23:42

what about this type of hood scoop the intercooler can be mounted after this because it most likely might be a small and the ic can be placed like that of a wrx and the air can go over the ic.is that possible.

PmDaWg · 21st March 2007, 23:59

Could V-Mount be in the picture? Do you have any pics of the engine bay?

nitrous · 22nd March 2007, 00:05

Pawan, the current indica turbos and indigos have the same kind of arrangement like the Subarus.
Tata engineers have also designed a scoop under the hood from the grille to the intercooler for efficiency.

pawan · 22nd March 2007, 00:09

sorry didn't know about that.but what about some type of heat regulated fan at the start so it could boost air flow.

nitrous · 22nd March 2007, 00:18

Pawan, Air induction to the engine works in a different way.
Intercooler is like a radiator which is nothing but a heat exchanger.
The hot air from the turbo to the Intake when passed through the Intercooler is cooled.
I would suggest u to dig into old topics where there are serious discussions about the basics of turbo-charging.

11th November 2005, 15:35	#1
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Intercooler placement question An intercooler is supposed to cool the air going into turbo, right? Now in an NA indica, ever felt the top part of the engine? you can actually boil water there. Then why has tata placed the intercooler up there. Granted there is an air scoop for the cool air to rush in, what about low speeds? I did not see any fan there to pull in cool air. By my reconing the intercooler will be pretty hot. Infact due to all the sound deadening material, anywhere inside the indica hood will be hot. Techies here, any ideas?
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 15:58	#2
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	What hoodscoop? I don't see one in the photo's of the Indica Turbo.
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 16:02	#4
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Oops, its not exactly a hoodscoop, but the air scoop is just below the bonnet. They suck in air from the top of the front grill
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 16:05	#5
MustangMan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Delhi/Indore Posts: 231 Thanked: 9 Times	The plumbing required to put the intercooler in the front will defeat the purpose of the cooler. It will get heat from the engine. the subaru wrx also has the ic on the top, but has a dedicated hood scoop.
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 16:07	#6
Suryam Posts: n/a	Normally Heat transfers in three ways: - Conduction (one can boil by water condution if they are directly connected) - Convection - Radiation. We can rule out condution of heat from Engine to intercooler as they are not directly connected. About Radiation: this will not be prominent till one reacher more than 400 DegC. Now we have left out with convection. We have two modes of convective heat transfers. -- Hot air blown over Engine top to Intercooler Fins. But this air cannot go easily into intercooler fins(there is obstruction coming via air-duct) -- Cool air coming via air-duct to intercooler fins(this duct more or less snugly fits with Intercoller cooling fins) So with the limited space and degree of freedom, they have done some thing which improves current system Last edited by Suryam : 11th November 2005 at 16:08.
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 21:40	#8
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	I also have doubts about the efficiency of that intercooler. There's hardly any space for the air to come in and nowhere really to go. Impreza also uses a top mount I/C but has a large hood scoop and since its a boxer, the engine is really low and there's lots of room for an exit path for the air. 05 Mini Cooper S is another top mounter and also has a hood scoop. The difference between the intercooled and non-intercooled version of the Indigo is not much and that tells you how effective it really is. They may have packaging issues with a front mount I/C. If you are willing to get a aftermarket front bumper, then youcan try mounting it up front, but the longer plumbing will adversly affect throttle response and lag.
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 23:10	#9
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Another reason the intercooler is not placed behind the air dam in the bumper is because of road condition, weather, dust, etc.. in our country which can reduce the life of the intercooler.
	() Thanks

21st March 2007, 22:06	#10
hell_rider BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 538 Thanked: 61 Times	this was exactly what I have been wondering about. w.r.t. the same, I have found this link: AutoSpeed - DIY Budget Intercooler Fitment basically, he's fashioned a fan much like a CPU fan that sits coupled to the intercooler. Could we have some opinions on the efficiency of this technique ??? Is it being used by anybody ?? opinions please. Last edited by hell_rider : 21st March 2007 at 22:09.
	() Thanks

21st March 2007, 23:42	#11
pawan BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: auckland, new zealand Posts: 868 Thanked: 4 Times	what about this type of hood scoop the intercooler can be mounted after this because it most likely might be a small and the ic can be placed like that of a wrx and the air can go over the ic.is that possible.
	() Thanks

21st March 2007, 23:59	#12
PmDaWg BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 36 Thanked: 0 Times	Could V-Mount be in the picture? Do you have any pics of the engine bay?
	() Thanks

22nd March 2007, 00:05	#13
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Pawan, the current indica turbos and indigos have the same kind of arrangement like the Subarus. Tata engineers have also designed a scoop under the hood from the grille to the intercooler for efficiency.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2007, 00:09	#14
pawan BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: auckland, new zealand Posts: 868 Thanked: 4 Times	sorry didn't know about that.but what about some type of heat regulated fan at the start so it could boost air flow.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2007, 00:18	#15
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Pawan, Air induction to the engine works in a different way. Intercooler is like a radiator which is nothing but a heat exchanger. The hot air from the turbo to the Intake when passed through the Intercooler is cooled. I would suggest u to dig into old topics where there are serious discussions about the basics of turbo-charging.
	() Thanks