ABS & Airbag requirement in indian conditions

theMAG · 10th October 2006, 12:49

Dear Manveet and Suman,

A good friend's Swift Zxi - which comes with airbags and ABS, was unfortunate to have been involved in a major accident which saw her car roll over twice at around 60 kmph before coming to a stop. The airbags did not deploy; and my friend had to spend close to 45 days in recuperation - she was wearing seatbelts.

2 other people I know - a friend and an acquaintance, who have Skoda Octavias, were independantly the recipients of airbag deployments at just 40 kmph, while the airbags had not deployed on earlier accidents on their Octavias at over 60 kmph +. I believe something similar is reported on Team-BHP.

Whether these airbags are unique to their respective car manufacturers, or not, is something the manufacturers have to clarify.

Thanks,
Mahesh

suman · 10th October 2006, 13:34

Mahesh, just to clarify that there are two conditions for front airbag deployment - seatbelts on AND frontal impact; if the car skids & turns turtle or otherwise turns turtle with no frontal impact, airbags will not deploy.

40 kmph is what I had also heard which is why I was questioning the high speed theory.

If above two conditions were met & yet airbags didn't deploy at speeds of 60 kmph, skoda should be sued

manveet · 10th October 2006, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMAG

Airbags are designed to deploy only at high speeds.

@ Mahesh .. please clarify because as per the above logic, if I am stationary in my ABS equipped car and am hit head-on by a truck at 100kph, the air-bags won't deploy !!???!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by suman

40 kmph is what I had also heard which is why I was questioning the high speed theory.

@ Suman .. in light of the above .. the 40 kmph funda doesn't make sense to me .. what say?

sandeep108 · 10th October 2006, 18:03

http://www.scienceservingsociety.com/ts/text/ch12.htm
In light of what I read above, I think I may have to revise my opinion of airbags. The non-deployment in the skoda may have been intentional, since for Indian conditions, they may have increased the threshhold limits for deployment. Maybe somebody can use the RTI and ask the car manufacturers the details.

mithun · 11th October 2006, 06:10

What will be the cost of Airbags replacement in the case of Swift ZXi ?

ravibhat · 11th October 2006, 09:03

Is there any one who own swift / Innova / Corolla / octavia or any other vehicle where airbag is deployed and they would know how much it has cost them for replacement, I heard few stories of swift crash but airbag did not deployed since speed was less than 100 km.

Regards,

Ravi.

vikram_d · 11th October 2006, 09:13

Wow..The swift's airbag is supposed to deploy at anything more than 20kmph according to the manual.

Nikhilb2008 · 11th October 2006, 12:27

The replacing of the whole airbag unit (airbag, dashboard, etc, etc....) will be upwards of 10K. This is what I heard from my father's friend.

But I am not too sure abt this....if someone can enlighten me, I will be happy

Rtech · 11th October 2006, 12:37

Threads Merged .

muni · 11th October 2006, 14:44

Since the air bags can be dangerous if the seat belts are not ON, are the SWIFT Zxis equipped with this simple and useful feature not to deploy airbags is such situations and to deploy only while seat belts are On.

Apart from complex variables like the position of the occupant, type of frame, child or an adult have some impact on how the airbags should deploy( calls for lot of sensors and higher costs), i feel the basic is not to deploy if the seat belts are not On.

muni · 11th October 2006, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by manveet

@ Mahesh .. please clarify because as per the above logic, if I am stationary in my ABS equipped car and am hit head-on by a truck at 100kph, the air-bags won't deploy !!???!!

@ Suman .. in light of the above .. the 40 kmph funda doesn't make sense to me .. what say?

It is interesting to note that when your car with ABS is stationary and is hit by a truck/ bus/ car should the airbags deploy as you will not be thrown in front towards the dash board as you and your car are not moving and a sudden collision would not push the occupants front.

Does it make sense.

vivekiny2k · 11th October 2006, 19:50

@Muni,
it's all relative.
whether you move towards the the dash or dash moves towards you, ultimately it's you who is going to get injured. airbag deployment would defenitely save a life.

sandeep108 · 12th October 2006, 10:33

Modern airbags in zxi, etc. cars today have comlicated sensor mechanisms, precisely to prevent injuries due to unnecessary deployment. It is mostly related to frontal impact and change in speed that the sensor/computer uses to decide whether to deploy. e.g. even if an accident takes place at 80km/h, emergency braking, angle of collision and crumple zones may reduce the change in speed considerably. While an accident at 40km/h with no time to use brakes, etc. may result in such change of speed that airbag may deploy.

sumitdongerkery · 12th October 2006, 14:50

Guys!!!!!!!

Airbag is deployed based on many factors.. It has nothing to do with the speed of your car.... It is the speed at which it collides.... Like cases where your car is stationary but is hit by a vehicle travelling at 100kmph airbags are definately deployed... Apart from this if the sensors sense any upper body damage due to collision the airbags are deployed irrespective of whether it is a frontal or a side collision. I have confirmed this with Skoda. Cost involved in restoring airbags once it is deployed in caseof skoda is 1.65lacs. But the dealer has told me that it is covered in insurance.... not sure about it though.

And regarding ABS I feel it is a must have in your cars especially during long and high speed driving. During my trip down south last week I found it comaparatively easy to dodge potholes at high speeds. In my Balenos when I used to apply brakes suddenly the wheels would lock and although I tried to manouvre the car real hard they would end up in the pot holes.

Cheers....

vikram_d · 13th October 2006, 09:56

[SIZE=2]Why are airbags not covered by insurance when everything else in the car is? I find this very strange. Need to talk to my insurance agent. [/SIZE]

10th October 2006, 12:49	#46
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	Dear Manveet and Suman, A good friend's Swift Zxi - which comes with airbags and ABS, was unfortunate to have been involved in a major accident which saw her car roll over twice at around 60 kmph before coming to a stop. The airbags did not deploy; and my friend had to spend close to 45 days in recuperation - she was wearing seatbelts. 2 other people I know - a friend and an acquaintance, who have Skoda Octavias, were independantly the recipients of airbag deployments at just 40 kmph, while the airbags had not deployed on earlier accidents on their Octavias at over 60 kmph +. I believe something similar is reported on Team-BHP. Whether these airbags are unique to their respective car manufacturers, or not, is something the manufacturers have to clarify. Thanks, Mahesh
	() Thanks

10th October 2006, 13:34	#47
suman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 4,589 Thanked: 279 Times View My Garage	Mahesh, just to clarify that there are two conditions for front airbag deployment - seatbelts on AND frontal impact; if the car skids & turns turtle or otherwise turns turtle with no frontal impact, airbags will not deploy. 40 kmph is what I had also heard which is why I was questioning the high speed theory. If above two conditions were met & yet airbags didn't deploy at speeds of 60 kmph, skoda should be sued
	() Thanks

10th October 2006, 18:03	#49
sandeep108 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,050 Thanked: 302 Times	http://www.scienceservingsociety.com/ts/text/ch12.htm In light of what I read above, I think I may have to revise my opinion of airbags. The non-deployment in the skoda may have been intentional, since for Indian conditions, they may have increased the threshhold limits for deployment. Maybe somebody can use the RTI and ask the car manufacturers the details.
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 06:10	#50
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	What will be the cost of Airbags replacement in the case of Swift ZXi ?
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 09:03	#51
ravibhat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,256 Thanked: 37 Times View My Garage	Is there any one who own swift / Innova / Corolla / octavia or any other vehicle where airbag is deployed and they would know how much it has cost them for replacement, I heard few stories of swift crash but airbag did not deployed since speed was less than 100 km. Regards, Ravi.
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 09:13	#52
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	Wow..The swift's airbag is supposed to deploy at anything more than 20kmph according to the manual.
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 12:27	#53
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,196 Thanked: 10,138 Times	The replacing of the whole airbag unit (airbag, dashboard, etc, etc....) will be upwards of 10K. This is what I heard from my father's friend. But I am not too sure abt this....if someone can enlighten me, I will be happy
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 12:37	#54
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	Threads Merged . Last edited by Rtech : 11th October 2006 at 12:39.
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 14:44	#55
muni BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 607 Thanked: 214 Times View My Garage	Since the air bags can be dangerous if the seat belts are not ON, are the SWIFT Zxis equipped with this simple and useful feature not to deploy airbags is such situations and to deploy only while seat belts are On. Apart from complex variables like the position of the occupant, type of frame, child or an adult have some impact on how the airbags should deploy( calls for lot of sensors and higher costs), i feel the basic is not to deploy if the seat belts are not On.
	() Thanks

11th October 2006, 19:50	#57
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	@Muni, it's all relative. whether you move towards the the dash or dash moves towards you, ultimately it's you who is going to get injured. airbag deployment would defenitely save a life.
	() Thanks

12th October 2006, 10:33	#58
sandeep108 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,050 Thanked: 302 Times	Modern airbags in zxi, etc. cars today have comlicated sensor mechanisms, precisely to prevent injuries due to unnecessary deployment. It is mostly related to frontal impact and change in speed that the sensor/computer uses to decide whether to deploy. e.g. even if an accident takes place at 80km/h, emergency braking, angle of collision and crumple zones may reduce the change in speed considerably. While an accident at 40km/h with no time to use brakes, etc. may result in such change of speed that airbag may deploy.
	() Thanks

12th October 2006, 14:50	#59
sumitdongerkery BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 166 Thanked: 82 Times View My Garage	Guys!!!!!!! Airbag is deployed based on many factors.. It has nothing to do with the speed of your car.... It is the speed at which it collides.... Like cases where your car is stationary but is hit by a vehicle travelling at 100kmph airbags are definately deployed... Apart from this if the sensors sense any upper body damage due to collision the airbags are deployed irrespective of whether it is a frontal or a side collision. I have confirmed this with Skoda. Cost involved in restoring airbags once it is deployed in caseof skoda is 1.65lacs. But the dealer has told me that it is covered in insurance.... not sure about it though. And regarding ABS I feel it is a must have in your cars especially during long and high speed driving. During my trip down south last week I found it comaparatively easy to dodge potholes at high speeds. In my Balenos when I used to apply brakes suddenly the wheels would lock and although I tried to manouvre the car real hard they would end up in the pot holes. Cheers....
	() Thanks

13th October 2006, 09:56	#60
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	[SIZE=2]Why are airbags not covered by insurance when everything else in the car is? I find this very strange. Need to talk to my insurance agent. [/SIZE]
	() Thanks