Team-BHP - What to do in case of a brake failure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaur (Post 4524570)

I got a whatsapp forward from multiple groups where there is a gentleman advising on how to stop a car from 80 kmph in around 8 secs when the brakes fail. For some reason I am finding it difficult to upload the video here but to share a gist of how he did it -

1. Pull the handbrake HALFWAY through
2. Once the speed reduces, use the clutch and shift till the 2nd gear (in the video he is in 4th gear. He moves to 3rd and then 2nd though I dont think he used engine braking in the 3rd gear but rather did it in 2nd gear)
3. The car would jerk and speed would considerably reduce
4. Pull the handbrake all the way up till the car stops

I am sure we have discussed some or probably all of this but just wanted to share it here as its a video which is being shared on whatsapp like crazy. Some advice on the forums is to not use the handbrake but in the video he used it only midway. Hope none of us every encounter this situation but if it does, maybe this is an option that can be tried

All the points are possible if you have enough clear road to do it. Else it will be a very different scenario.
It is advised not to pull the handbrake fully since that will lead to the rear wheels locking and loosing control. It is a dicey situation, however I feel on modern cars, a brake failure is rare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenjiRoss (Post 4524724)

Is this the video you are talking about?

Yup. Thanks for posting it

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharian (Post 4524757)

All the points are possible if you have enough clear road to do it. Else it will be a very different scenario.

Absolutely agree but then you would achieve 80kmph only on a relatively clear road anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharian (Post 4524757)

It is advised not to pull the handbrake fully since that will lead to the rear wheels locking and loosing control.

Yes and thats precisely why he is pulling it half the way up and not completely locking the rear wheels. The general tendency is to rip the handbrake which could prove problematic

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaur (Post 4524776)

Absolutely agree but then you would achieve 80kmph only on a relatively clear road anyway.

What are the situations in which you have to brake to a halt from 80kmph? :)

The video is very generic. And only covers the very basic stuff. A real situation requires much more input.

Some of the newer car with very tall gear ratio can reach 50-70 KMPH in second gear. I am not sure, how sudden speed reduction with engine braking can be achieved downshifting to 2nd gear. Situation would be horrible in case of inclines.

Coming back to the video, the gentleman pulled hand brake immediately after downshifting to 2nd. IMO, speed of the car should be in range of 20-30 KMPH. I think, at that speed, handbrake might trigger rear wheel lock with skidding in those puny tires available with mass market cars. Also, I am not sure how the halfway handbrake thing works.

I believe, handbrake can safely be used, if speed falls below 20 KMPH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhanushs (Post 4524787)

What are the situations in which you have to brake to a halt from 80kmph? :)

errr.....Brake failure isn't a reason enough ?:)

EDIT - anyway I think the point he was trying to make is when you are 80 and you need to stop realizing a brake failure. At lower speeds it should be relatively easier and at higher speeds this might not work. Adding to it there shouldn't be anything in your path for some distance at least if you realize during panic braking that your brakes aren't working then nothing else can help I guess

Informative video but suggestions are applicable if you're on a road that's relatively empty. It is also the reason hand brakes are also called E brakes where E = emergency in case of hydraulic or other serious system failure.

However, I believe an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Therefore here's what I practice:

a) Make sure the handbrake cable is not jammed. Regularly using the handbrake, instead of leaving the vehicle in gear or in 'P' mode for automatics, will prevent cable jamming up. My car is always in neutral or P with the handbrake engaged.

b) Brake hardware inspection (Shoes/pads/calipers/hoses) and lubing the caliper pins and/or brake shoe mount contact points regularly done as per the manufacturer's recommendation. Check brake fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir once a month. Don't wait for the brake warning light (in some cars it doubles up as an early pad wear warning system) to turn on.

c) Brake fluid flush every 2-3 years, particularly if you live in a humid coastal city. Corrosion caused by moisture in the hygroscopic brake fluid will eventually cause brake failures.

There are 3 things I am very, very particular about in my car i.e. tyres, brakes and the lights. Zero compromises. Those are kept in tip top shape at all times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaur (Post 4524776)

Absolutely agree but then you would achieve 80kmph only on a relatively clear road anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaur (Post 4524825)

errr.....Brake failure isn't a reason enough ?:)

EDIT - anyway I think the point he was trying to make is when you are 80 and you need to stop realizing a brake failure.

When you are driving at 80 and your foot is on the accelerator pedal, How do you know your brakes don’t work? What I’m saying is at that point, you won’t be having a clear road ahead.

On just about all cars, you would be very hard pressed to lock up the wheels by using your handbrake. Try it, park your car, pull the handbrake as tight as you can, pull with two hands!!

Then put the car in gear and it will simply drive away without any fuss! You might have to use a bit more throttle/clutch, but it will drive away and I would be very surprised if it locks up the rear wheels.

If you have an electronic brake things might be very different. I don’t think it will engage when you are still moving forward, certainly at speed.

If you are using engine braking, use the lowest gear possible, i.e. make sure the engine is running at the highest RPMs possible. So downshift as much as you as early as you can!

Jeroen

I have my doubts about any suggestion that would recommend an action that would involve locking just one end at a time at speed.

Reason being, if you intend to or are left without options than to lock the wheels at speed, its better to lock both front and rear at once rather than one at a time i.e panic braking(front) or e-braking(rear) on a non-ABS car.

Because god-forbid if all variables are not in your favor when you lock only one end then you're looking at a car that would go out of control sideways and in worst case scenarios even topple(t'is a tall-body thing, the rest are oblivious to the terror).

As for brake failure, provided that you're commonsense'ical enough to change your pads and fluids periodically the chances of something going wrong are slim, but if it does still happen then in a good number of chances the deterioration is progressive(at least the case with my ZEN), and the brake booster would be at fault in which case once you start feeling the sensitivity decrease you could pull over and inspect your fluid levels and top up as required.

If you're at speed and need to drop some serious speed then drop the gear from final drive to 1st and slip the clutch aggressively to crawl speeds and finish off with the hand brake, though it takes a bit to type, the whole process takes less time courtesy muscle memory, at times the car would come to a halt way before you'd even get the first swear word out! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaur (Post 4524570)

I got a whatsapp forward from multiple groups where there is a gentleman advising on how to stop a car from 80 kmph in around 8 secs when the brakes fail.

I received the video as a forward today and immediately searched the forum to see what should be done in a brake failure scenario.
I request the members of this forum to kindly add to the previous suggestions and update this thread for newer modern cars. (Manual, Automatics, and EVs)

I think in EVs regen pedal can be used to stop the car.
I have no idea about the AT cars. Please suggest what to do in case of such an emergency in AT cars.
In newer manual transmission cars also, what to do first at a higher speed- downshift or partially apply handbrake?
P.S. - Request to mods to kindly pin this thread as the suggestions are a lifesaver. Thanks.