[Tabasco Sauce]

Originally Posted by graaja

People who are interested in the results, please PM me and I will provide details of my finding with a disclaimer to take the results with a bucket of salt.

Since I don't have the ability to send you a PM can you please send me the results? Thanks in advance.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by graaja

...whether this will be legally correct etc, I am not sure if it would be apt to publish the results in an open forum. . . .

It'd be more morally correct and as per well-followed team-bhp guidelines/similar situations (in the past) to openly share and post the details on the open forum, infact on this thread itself.

Have PMed you the same. Please do share.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by graaja

Thank you all for the overwhelming support on my effort. Though I was planning to post all my findings in the original thread, after some members raised concerns about the accuracy of the results and whether this will be legally correct etc, I am not sure if it would be apt to publish the results in an open forum. People who are interested in the results, please PM me and I will provide details of my finding with a disclaimer to take the results with a bucket of salt.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

It'd be more morally correct and as per well-followed team-bhp guidelines/similar situations (in the past) to openly share and post the details on the open forum, infact on this thread itself.
Have PMed you the same. Please do share.

I agree with Ninja. It does not sound right that the 150 odd members need to PM you to get hold of the results. As I mentioned in the earlier post, a internal poll would have been better (and I saw that the survey link from your original post is removed as team-bhp does not allow/support external polls).

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

It'd be more morally correct and as per well-followed team-bhp guidelines/similar situations (in the past) to openly share and post the details on the open forum, infact on this thread itself.

Have PMed you the same. Please do share.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I agree with Ninja. It does not sound right that the 150 odd members need to PM you to get hold of the results. And those who have not taken the survey also might be interested to know the findings.

Totally agree with your views. Details of my findings below:

Disclaimer:

• I definitely cannot guarantee the accuracy of the surveys due to the open nature of the survey. I did filter out bogus surveys based on some logic, but there definitely is a possibility of some left behind.
• The sample size is still very small to come to a firm conclusion for or against the cars. Had the survey been active for a few more days and if the sample size could have been more than 300 or 500, it would have been better.
• The conclusions that I have arrived from the survey are solely my personal conclusions and do not reflect any bias for or against any individual(s) or organization(s)
• Please do take all these findings with a bucket of salt

Note to Moderators: Please edit or remove the post if you find this information to be in anyway against forum rules or causes any inconvenience.

Note to users who are against Skoda: The intention of this survey is not to prove you wrong. In fact, in my conclusion, I have mentioned Skoda cars are not for users who are averse to taking risks. The number of threads and posts dedicated to Skoda bashing should be enough to discourage any potential buyers. This is for those enthusiast drivers (including me) who are not able to find any other enthusiast car, but would like to know the actual amount of risk they have to take to own such a car.

Survey Results:

Totally I received 193 surveys that were complete. Out of this, I filtered out bogus surveys and only 118 surveys were left. Bogus surveys are posted by users who do

not own a Skoda car and 9 out of 10 times they will make a mistake in the data. Some examples are:

A person said he owns a Rapid with 7 speed DSG. Rapid does not come with a 7 speed DSG.
A person said he had to change the turbo charger in his Rapid petrol car. Rapid does not come with a turbo petrol engine, only Octavia has.
A person said he owns a third generation Octavia for 3 years.

From the 118 surveys, below are some key points:

To the question "On a scale of 0 to 10 how likely are you to recommend a Skoda car to a friend or relative":
45% (54 of 118) scored a 7 or above
60% (22 of 37) of petrol users scored 7 or above.
39% (32 of 81) of diesel users scored 7 or above

To the question "On a scale of 0 to 10 how satisfied are you with your dealer"
36% (38 of 105) scored a 7 or above

Major component replacements:
45% (54 of 118) of the cars had one or more components replaced
12% (3 of 24) of cars owned less than a year had one or more components replaced
27% (16 of 58) of cars owned up to 2 years had one or more components replaced
39% (35 of 89) of cars owned up to 3 years had one or more components replaced
44% (49 of 111) of cars owned 3 to 5 years had one or more components replaced

In the above analysis, the number of cars is progressive. The number of cars owned upto 2 years is a sum of cars owned less than a year and 1 to 2 years, and so on.

AC compressor - 12% (15 of 118)
Power windows - 11% (13 of 118)
Gearbox - 8.5% (10 of 118). 7 of these 10 were DSG gearboxes
Turbochargers - 6.7% (8 of 118)
Entertainment system - 3.3% (4 of 118)
ABS control - 1.6% (2 of 118)

To the question "Did you have a breakdown where your car had to be towed":
17% (21 of 118) replied yes. 9 of these were petrol and 12 of these diesel

Below are some verbatim comments (both positive and negative) from users.

Positives:

1. If the car is good from start, you are less likely to have issues. If you drive carefully, have no accidents and do not mod (electrically or otherwise), the car won't have issue
2. It's a great VFM product. At that price (Skoda Superb), you get features equivalent to a Merc. E Class, space equivalent to a Merc. S Class. With regards to ASS, IMHO I do not think they are any worse than most ASS of other brands. Honestly, I have had NO ISSUES until now with my Dealer. I've been servicing at Autobahn at Sewri.
3. No unexpected problems from a 4 yr old 40000 km life.
4. I would recommend because they are really nicely built cars and the reason I would not ask them to is because of the prices of parts and other practices by the service center. I am not to worried about the a.s.s guys attitude as I have dealt with Tata and HM before this.
5. The car has given me no trouble in two years and has met all my needs admirably.
6. I guess at the end it boils down to if one would like to be the owner of the most mechanically accomplished car or rather would like to fiddle with fancy electronics and other interior gizmos. I had selected my car after test driving 7 other cars in the same league and while making the final decision only one thing mattered: the car best to drive! But it's true that I had my own way to deal with Skoda; even the car I drive is a unique one almost "custom-made" for me, which I'm not sure everyone will have the patience to persist. But, if you love cars from a mechanical point of view and could be persistent with the management to make yourself listened to, Skoda is the brand for you.
7. Skoda makes excellent cars. Period. However the people in India managing it need to het their act together.
8. Rock solid car with no issues and an absolute pleasure to drive and own !!!

Negatives:

1. They dont know the word " service ". they Just want sell cars and forget about them.
2. Even though they make brilliant cars, apart from the skoda dealer, my other concern is the expensive maintenance.
3. Expensive Repairs & Electronic Component Failure. Warranty support was terrible and I had to bear the expenses. I would never buy any VAG group product in my life because I am frustrated
4. I strongly feel that Skoda service centres lack grossly on technical expertise. As a end customer you might be ignorant of the nitygritys and not by the service centre.
5. Very expensive to maintain. Poor dealer experience.
6. There are lot of better options available out there. I don't want to put my credibility at stake by recommending a brand that has no respect for its customers.

Conclusion:
My conclusions based on the above results and also from my observations from the various Skoda problem threads in TBHP:

1. The rate of failure (17% breakdown that required a towing, 45% of cars requiring component replacement) is definitely on the high side. But if you enjoy a car that has a tank like build, has great driving dynamics, and if you can take a calculated risk, then I think this you can buy a Skoda car. If you are a person who is totally averse to risks then Skoda cars are not for you.
2. Seeing the negative comments, almost all the users who have negative experience are because of the dealer attitude. So, first find out the reputation of the dealer in your area and make the choice based on that.
3. Never, never buy the car without an extended warranty. Most of the users have reported that all major component replacements happened during warranty and the main problem they faced was the time it took to source the components than Skoda not honoring their warranty. So, having an extended warranty will give you 4 years of peace of mind.
4. Outside warranty, Skoda spares are expensive if bought from the dealers. The best approach after warranty would be to find a good third party garage, and source parts directly from various websites that sell Skoda spares. This conclusion is not from the survey, but from the experience of various other happy owners.
5. If there are a few (I would say two or three, this actually depends on your personal preference) failures after purchase of the car, be patient and have the dealers replace the spares under warranty. Most of the complaints posted in the forum are not for dealers not honoring their warranty, but dealers not replacing the car. Ask for a replacement car only if you are absolutely sure that the car is a total failure. And take the legal course only as the last, very last resort. You could definitely win a legal battle if you have sufficient records, but it takes a lot of time.
6. Maintain perfect records for every failure that happened on your car, and insist that the dealer provides you the bill for the service (even if parts were replaced under warranty). This will help in case you had to take the legal course in the future.

Conclusion Specific to Octavia 1.8TSI Elegance
My conclusions based on the above results related to Octavia 1.8TSI:

1. The 1.8TSI petrol engine in Laura seems to be reliable. In fact TSI Laura owners are the most satisfied lot. So, the engine should not be an issue
2. The most unreliable component in the Elegance trim is the DSG gearbox. 4 out of 6 users who had the 7 speed DSG had their gearbox replaced. 3 out of 16 users who had 6 speed DSG had their gearbox replaced. I have made lot of research in the internet on the 7 speed DSG failures. Most of the failures are in cars manufactured before 2010 or 2011. No major issues have been reported on cars after this. So, a DSG7 is sort of a gamble. However, if you have an extended warranty then there will be 4 years where your gearbox is covered. And there is a chance that all problems may be resolved by then.

Finally, my decision from this survey:
I am going ahead and buying a Skoda car. Just to avoid the risk of the DSG7 failure, I am considering Superb 1.8TSI MT Elegance as an alternate to Octavia. Call me a braveheart, suicidal or a Masochist (as another member duly pointed out ), I love to drive and in today's market I could not find an enthusiast car from a Japanese or Korean manufacturer that is fun to drive, has that luxury quotient and safe as well!!

[audioholic]

Very informative. Also in the forum majority of the common issue reported is about a DSG failure. Rest are mostly one off cases. Hence warranty should be sufficient for that. Appreciate your research before making a buy. Thanks to the world of the internet, you can now get opinions from a wider group of people. How about extending the survey to a greater audience? And its better you make their VIN or some stronger identity. Maybe the cars and their specs may not match, but still it isnt completely foolproof.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Very informative. Also in the forum majority of the common issue reported is about a DSG failure. Rest are mostly one off cases. Hence warranty should be sufficient for that. Appreciate your research before making a buy. Thanks to the world of the internet, you can now get opinions from a wider group of people. How about extending the survey to a greater audience? And its better you make their VIN or some stronger identity. Maybe the cars and their specs may not match, but still it isnt completely foolproof.

Thanks. I do not know how to extend the survey to a wider audience. Team BHP is the only community that I know. Maybe facebook is another way of expanding the scope.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by graaja

Finally, my decision from this survey:
I am going ahead and buying a Skoda car.

Let me be the first to congratulate you on the decision that you have made. And I wish you a good & positive ownership experience of the car you have chosen.

Also, I am all in praise for you to undertake a proper due diligence and the in-depth research that you have undertaken before making the purchase.

All the best!

Regards,
Saket

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Took the survey, and will be more than happy to see the results. 1.6 years, 30k kms of happy motoring so far on a Yeti, the decision to go for the vehicle despite all the negative feedback has been a good one so far. Fingers crossed about the rest of the ownership experience, but potential service concerns aside the vehicle has been brilliant. Here's another survey result for your reference, the JD Power British Car Survey: http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/full-results/1206903

Yes. I echo Steer on this. I bought the Yeti because no other vehicle which suits my requirement, even comes close to it at that price point.

So far its been a good run of two plus years and some 21K odd kms. Good service from the dealer/ workshop and Skoda as well so far. No grumbles from my side. I really want to know the results of this survey which I also took a couple of days back. I read the JD Power survey results and am quite interested to know how this one stacks up against that one.

By the way, I wish you the very best with your Octy. Enjoy!

[graaja]

Originally Posted by saket77

Let me be the first to congratulate you on the decision that you have made. And I wish you a good & positive ownership experience of the car you have chosen.

Also, I am all in praise for you to undertake a proper due diligence and the in-depth research that you have undertaken before making the purchase.

All the best!

Regards,
Saket

Thank you very much for your kind words and wishes.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Yes. I echo Steer on this. I bought the Yeti because no other vehicle which suits my requirement, even comes close to it at that price point.

So far its been a good run of two plus years and some 21K odd kms. Good service from the dealer/ workshop and Skoda as well so far. No grumbles from my side. I really want to know the results of this survey which I also took a couple of days back. I read the JD Power survey results and am quite interested to know how this one stacks up against that one.

By the way, I wish you the very best with your Octy. Enjoy!

Hi, Thank you for the kind wishes!

I have shared the results a few posts above (link below)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3343872

Regarding how this survey stacks up against JD Power here are some observations:

1. Skoda Superb is rated first in JD power survey with a score of 83%, followed by Skoda Yeti with a score of 82.8%. This shows these cars are indeed highly reliable cars.
2. Maybe in India, the cars are not that reliable because they are not designed with Indian conditions in mind, or the very poor state of after sales support from both the dealers and Skoda
3. I dont think the survey I did would even come close to JD power survey in terms of accuracy. They only consider cars that have sold 4000+ and cars that have at least 50 clean surveys, and cars owned from 18 to 36 months. In the survey results, I have there is no car with 50 clean surveys. Following is the list of sample size for various cars.

Laura - 37
Fabia - 27
Rapid - 24
Superb - 11
Octavia 1st Gen - 8
Yeti - 7
Octavia 3rd Gen - 4

If I apply the 18 to 36 months filter to the surveys, the sample size comes becomes even small.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by graaja

Finally, my decision from this survey:
I am going ahead and buying a Skoda car. Just to avoid the risk of the DSG7 failure, I am considering Superb 1.8TSI MT Elegance as an alternate to Octavia. Call me a braveheart, suicidal or a Masochist (as another member duly pointed out ), I love to drive and in today's market I could not find an enthusiast car from a Japanese or Korean manufacturer that is fun to drive, has that luxury quotient and safe as well!!

I was in a very similar boat in 2011 just before I bought the Laura TSI. We had a Corolla and it had given us 8 years of trouble free service. Everything worked like clock work but that 'X' factor was missing. We did not want to go for a full fledged D segment car like the Camry/ Accord etc.. as we felt it will be too big for our traffic conditions and parking will be a hassle. The performance, handling and build quality of the Laura was way better than Japanese and Korean competition. After 8 years of driving a Corolla I'd had enough of playing it safe. . I scanned through internet forums and realised that the Laura's 1.8 TSI engine was a reliable one and Bangalore's Skoda dealers were some of the better Skoda dealers in the country. I took the plunge knowing very well what the trade off was. 4 years extended warranty was a great help. Fast forward 3 years and 50K kms , no regrets.

[Avid trekker]

@graaja: Thanks for putting up the results. Though the sample size is small, it is interesting to know the different opinion from people.

All the best with your Octy.

[pratika]

@graaja
That was a very methodical and reasonable approach to decide your next car buy. And thanks for sharing the quantitative data.

It would be interesting to compare the data for Skoda with similar data for other German cars - BMW/Merc/Audi/VW.

Some questions that come to mind:
1) Do other German brands suffer from similar reliability issues in India?
2) People biting the BMW bullet also recommend and purchase BSI. Is it that BMW cars are more reliable than Skoda or BSI makes ownership experience much more trouble free? A follow up - would potential Skoda owners bit the bullet if Skoda had a BSI-like offering?
3) How to VW and Audi cars do in terms of reliability - given they share lineage.

PS: I didnt vote in the survey since I am a 1-week old Skoda owner.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by pratika

@graaja
That was a very methodical and reasonable approach to decide your next car buy. And thanks for sharing the quantitative data.

It would be interesting to compare the data for Skoda with similar data for other German cars - BMW/Merc/Audi/VW.

Some questions that come to mind:
1) Do other German brands suffer from similar reliability issues in India?
2) People biting the BMW bullet also recommend and purchase BSI. Is it that BMW cars are more reliable than Skoda or BSI makes ownership experience much more trouble free? A follow up - would potential Skoda owners bit the bullet if Skoda had a BSI-like offering?
3) How to VW and Audi cars do in terms of reliability - given they share lineage.

PS: I didnt vote in the survey since I am a 1-week old Skoda owner.

Thank you for your kind words.

Actually, I do not have any idea about the reliability of the other German brands like Audi or BMW. Maybe other users can shed some light on this.

[maverick_driver]

Am not sure if This is the right place to post this. However, Am curious to know if there are any known cases of Superb 1.8 TSi's which have had the mechatronics unit replace suffering a failure of the DSG a second time. I had a DSG failure on my 2010 superb at around 16000KM which was replaces. Have now done 45000KM and except for one instance when the lever would not move from the 'P' slot and I had no ignition, I have had no real issue with the DSG. I do get the much talked about shudder ocassionally when moving from 1st to 2nd.

[srishiva]

Honda has come out with 8DCT on Acura TLX that uses a DCT mated to a conventional torque converter. Wondering if it solves any of the the stop and go related failures and initial improved acceleration.