[arvi86]

Originally Posted by varunanb

Check for the child lock. It might have been engaged by mistake.

It was indeed the child lock. The rear seat is rarely used, so this thought never struck my mind.

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

It's high time you have this thread moved to the long term ownership section

Yeah, I agree. Will get it done shortly.

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

I had a similar jerk issue which reduced considerably after a throttle body cleaning. When was your fuel filter changed ? In a worse case it could be ignition coils but don't mention this to Honda as they cost a bomb (4.5k a piece and there are 4) let them come up with the diagnosis. If they do advise to change the coils remember you need not change all 4 and only the weaker ones can be changed.

If I remember correctly, the air filter was replaced during the 60K service. The ignition coils were replaced in 2013 when the car was given for accident repair. As suggested by you, I'm planning to ask my service advisor for throttle body cleaning and injector cleaning when I hand the car over for 70K service this week.

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Civic's suspension is tough and can take abuse till 90k atleast. If the loud thuds are not translating to thunks etc i suggest don't bother changing anything for now. At-most get it inspected for peace of mind but i am quite sure your suspension is fine because even my 10k old overhauled front suspension goes thud thud so i think it's the car's characteristic.

I've always been caressing the car over bad stretches except for those odd occasions when potholes appear out of nowhere catching me unawares. So as you say, this should be Civic's characteristic. Believe me, its irritating at times.

Originally Posted by varunanb

Recently changed my alloys. But did not check for the difference in offset. Had to get this checked. But will this have any effect on steering?

It could well have an effect, but I'm not so sure. Get it checked anyway.

[sumeethaldankar]

Originally Posted by arvi86

I've always been caressing the car over bad stretches except for those odd occasions when potholes appear out of nowhere catching me unawares. So as you say, this should be Civic's characteristic. Believe me, its irritating at times.

You could try running tyre pressure at 30 psi if you have not done so. Also i have 205 65 size tyres. These are a bit taller and i notice when i maintain pressure to 30 psi the ride is smoother though the thud thud sound does come at times. However these will reduce FE marginally by around 0.5 kmpl and also makes the car a bit heavier to steer at parking speeds.

[arvi86]

As I have always done, I got the car serviced before schedule. With the odometer at 68,392 kilometers, I drove in to the Honda dealership with a prior appointment on 08th July, the day the Jazz was launched. It was all planned so that my cousin could complete the variant selection and booking formalities for the Jazz.

As expected, there was a mad rush outside the dealership, inside the dealership, on the service bay and on the parking lot. I had to wait for 10-15 minutes at the gate to even enter the workshop. When I contact the service advisor with whom I booked, I'm asked to wait for half an hour since they were all busy delivering the serviced cars. Nothing wrong in that, you might say. But, couldn't they have at least told this to me in advance? I could have arrived late and need not have rushed through my official commitments that day.

I wasn't bothered since my cousin was anyway there and we proceeded to check the Jazz inside and out. He chose the V MT version wearing the Carnelian Red Pearl shade. All this took quite a while and when I approach the service desk, the status hadn't changed. I've observed Honda dealerships getting very crowded ever since the Amaze and Brio were launched and, with the resounding success of the new City, the cars are simply jostling for space in many outlets. I bore the full brunt of it this time.

Apart from the regular paid 70K service, the complaints from my side were the same that I listed in this thread some time back.

Originally Posted by arvi86

Two weekends back, the brake lights went kaput and wouldn't turn off even when I switch off the engine and pull out the key. It happened on a Sunday evening and I rushed back to the Honda dealership to see if it could be sorted out. It couldn't and I had to get the switch disconnected. So, my car is now running without brake illumination and I'm afraid to take it out this way.

1. At lower RPMs in first and second gear, the car isn't decelerating smoothly. Instead, it chokes. I'm not sure if this is due to the poor low end of the i-VTEC or something else.
2. At times, when I press the clutch to upshift at higher revs, there is a mild jerk. This has been there for some time now and I am thinking of getting it checked now.
3. As suggested by Ignite's Raghav last time, the suspension has to go under the scanner too to see what has to be replaced. When I asked the Honda dealership to check the suspension as there are loud thuds every time I drive over potholes, they guessed it could be due to the lower arm bushes. The service advisor though suggested its not necessary and all Civics give out loud thus when going over anything more than a small pothole.

I get a call the next afternoon stating that the suspension is fine and the thuds I keep complaining are perfectly normal. I am also told that the engine is perfectly fine and they had run the Diagnostic Scanning tool to troubleshoot problems, if any. All's well then, I thought.

Then came the shocker. The advisor says they have observed power steering fluid leak and heaviness in the operation of clutch. As usual, it was suggested to replace the entire power steering rack & pump assembly and the whole clutch assembly. And the cost? A cool over 1 lac for the former and about 36,000 for the latter. I have been checking the fluid levels on and off and not once did I see the power steering fluid level below the minimum mark. As soon as I tell this, he says the power steering is still fine to go and the leak was very minor. On the clutch, my request to identify and replace just the part of the clutch that could have gone bad met with a negative response. I categorically denied replacing them both as I haven't observed anything abnormal with either the power steering or the clutch.

Overall, after a bombshell that could have cost me well above a lac, the final service cost was INR 6,555. The brake light switch was atrociously priced at INR 1652 with an additional INR 342 as labour charges (both inclusive of taxes). I ain't kidding!

The car is chugging along just fine and I had a short highway run last Sunday and observed no anomalies. I now keep checking the power steering fluid level every second time I take my car out, just in case.

[sumeethaldankar]

Congrats on becoming a Senior Bhpian. I hope the jerk issue is gone. I hope the Power steering and clutch do not throw any tantrums. A power steering overhaul at max should cost around 5 to 6 k at a indepebdant garage so even if it happens it's not a penny pincher considering what Honda quoted.

The clutch on being hard is what a junior advisior said about my car inspite of the clutch being overhauled just a couple of months back so this is just Hass mentality of conning or ignorance. Also i suggest checking the clutch fluid while you checking the power steering fluid once a while. If clutch fluid goes down the pedal would feel limp and sink in a bit to the floor making it difficult to engage the gears. It would typically mean a bad slave master cylinder issue. Again i hope you don't have such issues but it is better to be informed.

[arvi86]

Finally, the guys at Capital Honda called me last Saturday to replace the faulty airbag inflators from Takata. Since I couldn't go that day, I've fixed up an appointment for the following Saturday to get it done.

Though I'm glad Honda is treating Indian customers on par with our international brethren in terms of recalls, I'm quite disappointed that it took five months for them to do this. When I checked their site previously, it was just the driver's airbag inflator that's supposedly defective. But, going by what many other owners in the forum experienced, I would not be surprised if both the driver and passenger airbag inflators are covered under this recall.

There's just so much that has happened with the car over the past six months that I do not know where to start and how to end. There were twists and turns that would put a satellite channel mega-serial's plot to shame.

All's well right now though. That's what ultimately counts!

[arvi86]

It’s been long since this ownership thread was updated. So, what have I been doing all these days, err, months? To cut a long story short, the Civic survived an onslaught! And how, you ask? Well, read on.

It all started with the problems I faced with the front wheel bearings. I have already documented the bearing noise that cropped up, worsened just before a planned long drive, Honda dealership’s inability to source replacements on time and my tryst with the popular independent garage – Ignite, that’s also highly recommended by our forum members. All those details can be found elsewhere in this thread. A combination of driving around with worn-out bearings and poor gravel-filled roads in my locality meant that the tires were shot, well almost. Not only was the wear uneven, one of the front tires even had minute cuts in the sidewall. The clutch had worn out as well with about 10,000 kilometers life left in it. Suddenly, I was staring at a pretty big expense to get the Civic back to its perfect state. And that’s when my mind started doing other calculations.

Thoughts of going for a new car came up and a budget of INR 12 Lakhs was fixed. Only when I started scouting for options did I realize the game has moved on. I was keen on buying the top-end variant this time as my Civic ‘S’ reminded me of ‘V’ variant’s missing features oh so often. The only cars I could buy were sub-4m sedans and premium hatchbacks. None of the cars I liked – City, Ciaz, Elantra, Ecosport and the yet-to-be-launched-then Creta fit my budget, forcing me to extend my spend to INR 15 Lakhs.

Over the course of three months, I test drove multiple cars, loved two of them, booked one, then cancelled the booking and lost the booking amount and, at the end of it all, decided to retain and pamper the Civic for as long as possible. Here’s why.

Honda City:

For the first time since its launch in India, the new City wasn’t a radical departure from its predecessor. It speaks volumes about the futuristic design that the third-generation City (2008 - 2013) came with. Despite its evolutionary styling, the new City is a stylish sedan with the thick chrome grille being my only grouse. On paper, the City had everything I and my family wanted in our new car sans ground clearance - space, comfort, power and features. But the test drive was a shocker! I cranked the 1.5-liter i-DTEC and the sound was very un-Honda. While this was occupying my mind, the rest of the drive was impressive. The engine was extremely tractable in stop-go traffic and the instrument cluster looked cool. The feature list was huge and the women in the family were super impressed with the rear seat space and comfort. Fuel efficiency was another plus but I decided the City diesel is not my type of car.

The other variant I considered was the 1.5-liter i-VTEC CVT. I had to go to another dealership the next weekend for this but the drive was well worth the effort. Refinement was top-notch and reminded me of why I like Hondas in the first place and the CVT with paddle shifters meant driving through city traffic was no more a pain. I wanted to check out the car in and out completely in the dealership and that’s when the rude shock came. That Honda’s build quality has dropped a few notches has been said many times in this forum and how true it was. The glaring panel gaps, the visible weld spots, the messy and exposed boot-opening mechanism, the faint rattles in the cars I test drove and the famous ‘thud’ when going over potholes meant I had to strike off the City finally.

If I had gone for the City, I pay 15 Lakhs and get a car with far more features, similar space, less power, lower quality, debatable reliability and arguably less stylish than my Civic. Sorry, not what I wanted!

Maruti-Suzuki Ciaz:

This was another impressive car. It looked sedate, was spacious enough and the 1.3-liter diesel, though not impressive on paper, impressed me with its drivability in city traffic. Of course, the Ciaz would struggle at higher revs on an open highway, but I don’t go beyond 100 km/h often. The interiors were adequately equipped and the only feature I would miss compared to the City is cruise control. And its on-road price was around INR 2 Lakhs cheaper than the Honda, a significant difference. If it’s a diesel you’re looking for in this segment, the Ciaz deserves to be considered ahead of the City. I couldn’t test drive the Ciaz petrol automatic despite requesting for one. Thanks to the age-old 4-speed box, I wasn’t interested anyway and left it at that.

If Ciaz had been my next car, I pay 12.5 Lakhs and get a car with more features, top notch reliability, cheaper spares, similar space, less power, lower quality and arguably less stylish than my Civic. Sounds similar to the City episode, isn’t it?

Ford Ecosport:

After sedans, crossovers and SUVs are the body-styles I prefer and the Ecosport was the most affordable out there. After a brief test drive that included a muddy, potholed road, I loved the Ecosport’s robust build, high seating position and the features on offer. But the ride was too firm and my family seated at the rear nodded in unison when asked if they felt uncomfortable. It took me by surprise, as a close friend owns one and it never felt this bouncy. Realizing that there should be something wrong with this particular car, I kept calm but my family were left unimpressed with this episode. Another aspect was the space, lack of it in fact. The Ecosport is just a four-seater and the fifth passenger is a squeeze no matter what Ford would want you to believe. There it went off the list, with even its funky styling not able to make an impression.

Ford’s infamous dealership experience was another irritant. I had decided that, it it’s the Ecosport, it has to be the updated 100 PS diesel motor and nothing else. Despite visiting MPL Ford three times, I wasn’t offered a test drive in the updated 100 PS car. The last of those three visits was more than two months after Ford had launched the updated Ecosport. They were apologetic and all but never kept up their commitment of bringing the car home for a test drive. How would we live with such a lousy dealer?

If I had opted for the Ecosport, I pay 13 Lakhs (Remember, Brezza wasn't launched then and there were no price cuts by Ford!) and get a crossover with more features, funky styling, robust build and impeccable safety but less power, far less space and bothersome ride quality. The Civic stays!

Hyundai Elantra:

This is a stretch from my already-stretched budget, but the Elantra’s sexy styling was too good for me to ignore. If there is one car that won’t make me miss the Civic, it was this. I test drove both the petrol and diesel variants. The petrol engine was supremely refined and quite powerful in its own right. I came back wondering why most people feel this engine is a letdown. The diesel wasn’t as powerful and it lacked the acceleration befitting a car of its size, style and stature. But it wasn’t a deal breaker at all, given that the Elantra is a proper international car that isn’t reengineered for Indian conditions. The build quality, fit and finish were top notch and the features it had cooled our heads and our butts, literally (The ventilated front seats were awesome!). In short, I was smitten and so were my wife, my mom and my dad.

Can I afford one? Even after a big stretch, all I could buy was the ‘Base’ diesel or the ‘S’ petrol variant. Considering our current annual running, the S petrol variant was finalized. A quick check revealed it had all the basic necessities and some more. But, after spending 18 big ones, would the new Elantra make us feel special? Hell yeah, from the outside. Just so-so, from inside the car. To add to that, the Elantra had all those things that I disliked in the Civic - low ground clearance, soft rear suspension and the long overhangs that made parking in tight city spaces difficult. You name it and the Elantra had it.

The Elantra could have been our next car, it was THIS CLOSE! But, better sense prevailed. The Elantra is all that the Civic is and nothing more. Of course, it’s a brand new car, but I’m not spending 18 Lakhs for a car that’s so much like my present car.

Hyundai Creta:

Hyundai hasn’t put a foot wrong in the Indian market over the last couple of years and the Creta is just another feather in the Korean carmaker’s cap. I test drove both the petrol automatic and the 1.6-liter diesel variants as soon as they were launched and it was the latter that impressed me the most. The CRDi engine is a gem with top-notch refinement and non-existent turbo lag. It looked great from some angles and the interior quality, fit and finish were impeccable. The SX(O) came with all bells and whistles including six airbags, ESP, Vehicle Stability Management, etc. After prolonged discussions and deliberations that lasted the whole day, I booked a white Creta SX(O) on 01st of August with delivery promised by third week of the same month. Since it was Hyundai Motor Plaza, I was quite confident of their commitment.

Apart from being an all-new model, the Creta is stylish, adequately spacious, very well-loaded in the SX(O) trim we had booked, backed by Hyundai’s trusty after-sales support, quite powerful and an able mile muncher. This is it, finally, I thought!

Creta booked… and cancelled…

Since it was a long and tiring day spent shuttling between two Hyundai dealerships in the city where we test drove Elantra and Creta one last time before plonking in our money, it was decided to go out for dinner. That’s when me and my family’s emotional connect with the Civic reared its head. What was supposed to be an happy outing to celebrate Creta’s impending arrival turned out to be a sober affair because we couldn’t let the Civic go. By the next morning, it was decided that the Civic would stay with us. That meant the Creta’s booking had to be cancelled. Neither do we have parking space for two cars in our apartment complex nor do I have the financial might to keep two premium cars running simultaneously.

That being a Sunday, Hyundai Motor Plaza was closed. We thought through the whole day and there was no change in the decision. So, with mixed feelings, I went ahead and cancelled the booking on 03rd of August. Just like the whole booking process, the cancellation process was seamless as well. The dealership personnel assured a call back once the refund is ready to be collected. They did call back in two weeks and I was asked to collect the cheque in person. From the INR 25,000 I had paid as booking advance, INR 3,000 was deducted as cancellation charges. The Creta episode ended as soon as it started! And the Civic prevailed in the end.

While we were all happy that the Civic stayed with us, I couldn’t help but feel sorry for the sad state of affairs at Honda India. Be it the Brio, the Amaze, the Mobilio or the new B-RV, not one of them look and feel the way Hondas of the past did. Don’t flame me for making that statement but honestly, that’s how I feel. Gone are the impeccable fit and finish and the premium quality feel of the erstwhile Jazz and third-generation City. There’s definitely something wrong when my 9-year old Civic feels better screwed together than a friend’s 1-year old City. What’s happening, Honda?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by arvi86

And the Civic prevailed in the end.

Civic was a proper D segment gem, and I still long to own one, but probably won't ever be able to! Glad to read this post and see the beauty keeping the owners happy.

It looked so futuristic when it came out. Don't think any of the current generation cars in the similar price range are a match for the old beauty. Game has indeed moved on and it's the C segment and the compact SUV segment in that price range now.

Probably you could save up for the new Civic? I personally am loving the comeback it's made in the international market after the disaster with the lackluster ninth generation model. Only doubt in my mind is regarding the diesel engine they would use, but looks like NGT will make it simpler to choose the engine by the time the new Civic gets here.

[CGB]

Originally Posted by arvi86

While we were all happy that the Civic stayed with us

This line made me smile. One line and it explains how much you love your car. Civic is one such good car to own and drive !

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by arvi86

.......Gone are the impeccable fit and finish and the premium quality feel of the erstwhile Jazz and third-generation City.......

Funny you mention that.

Plenty of people who dismissed the previous-gen Jazz as overpriced and 'not worth the price tag' aren't bothered spending the same kind of money on the current model, which is relatively worse whichever way one looks at it. Worse build, fit & finish, missing features (the USP magic seats missing in all but top variants the most glaring one). I'm not a fan of the design either, the last gen looked much classier.

I'd honestly be happier buying the last gen if Honda still made those, at the same price. I'd at least be getting a car that's 'properly screwed together', like you said.

[glenmz]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

It looked so futuristic when it came out. Don't think any of the current generation cars in the similar price range are a match for the old beauty. Game has indeed moved on and it's the C segment and the compact SUV segment in that price range now.

Cannot agree more.
A friend of mine wanted my help to get a car for him. He started out with an Alto, I moved him to a City (Pre owned). Then one day during a hunt, we happened to test drive a Civic. He was so smitten by the Civic ride that he ended up getting one. We tried many City's and Corolla's but Civic somehow got etched with him. He loves his ride.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Civic was a proper D segment gem. It looked so futuristic when it came out. Don't think any of the current generation cars in the similar price range are a match for the old beauty.

Sadly, cars from this segment have become so expensive to own these days and none, barring the Elantra, are a match for the Civic as you rightly said.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I still long to own one, but probably won't ever be able to!

Pre-owned choices are aplenty in case you're interested.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Probably you could save up for the new Civic? I personally am loving the comeback it's made in the international market after the disaster with the lackluster ninth generation model.

The Civic and the upcoming new Elantra are potential candidates. Personally, I prefer the new Elantra's understated styling a tad more than the flashy new Civic.

Originally Posted by CGB

This line made me smile. One line and it explains how much you love your car. Civic is one such good car to own and drive !

Very true, the Civic has set the bar so high that scouting for a replacement was tougher than I imagined.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Plenty of people who dismissed the previous-gen Jazz as overpriced and 'not worth the price tag' aren't bothered spending the same kind of money on the current model

That's because competition has moved ahead with similar pricing strategies. When the previous-generation Jazz was launched, i20 was its sole competitor and it was priced lesser with way more features. Many variants of the Jazz today are priced bang in i20/Baleno territory.

That apart, every word that you said is true. The new Jazz doesn't appeal as much as the old Jazz did that I couldn't get myself and my family into looking at it as a potential replacement.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

I'm not a fan of the design either, the last gen looked much classier.

This is applicable for every Honda, starting from the City to the Accord and everything in between.

Originally Posted by glenmz

He started out with an Alto, I moved him to a City (Pre owned). He was so smitten by the Civic ride that he ended up getting one.

Went out looking for an Alto and came back with a Civic, that's quite a story!

Meanwhile, I just said a part of the story in my previous post. There are more twists and turns in the tale that are yet to come.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by arvi86

It’s been long since this ownership thread was updated. So, what have I been doing all these days, err, months? To cut a long story short, the Civic survived an onslaught! And how, you ask? Well, read on.

Over the course of three months, I test drove multiple cars, loved two of them, booked one, then cancelled the booking and lost the booking amount and, at the end of it all, decided to retain and pamper the Civic for as long as possible. Here’s why.

Interesting thought process mainly cause I am facing the same dilemma right now.

I have a 2009 Altis and we were looking at changing it with a more practical car with an Automatic as highest priority.

The new Altis was 22 lakhs and ticked most of the boxes but at the that price point it didn't offer any substantial upgrade in features or segment for a lot more money. Our Altis was 14.8L onroad in 2009 and now given the resale, we would need to shell out 16-17 lakhs for getting another Altis!

So I checked out the options under 20 lakhs and there was frankly nothing there that was even on par with a 7 year old Corolla.

The Creta AT (petrol) is 16 lakhs but loses so many features vs what's there in my Altis that I'll be more disappointed with the features I am missing in the Creta than with the advantage of getting an AT in the house.

The City has all the features and was actually a decent option on paper but the quality when you see the car in person is horrendous. Being used to Toyota levels of quality and solid build, I couldn't even dream of owning a Honda City with that interior quality.

In the end, I just decided to wait it out till something worthy actually comes along.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by arvi86

......
That's because competition has moved ahead with similar pricing strategies.

Pricing has moved northwards, overall product quality arguably the opposite way.

The previous-gen Jazz was rejected more due to the 'a hatch can't cost this much' mentality prevalent at the time, than anything actually wrong with the car or what one actually got for the price. I still have some of these cars in my acquaintance circle and every single owner swears by their car's value for money realized over long-term ownership. Some love their Jazz so much they decided to swap with the newer model, only to come back shaking their heads in disappointment.

Many variants of the Jazz today are priced bang in i20/Baleno territory........

Unfortunately, while the i20 has gone up a few notches in overall quality gen-to-gen, every other car has gotten worse.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

So I checked out the options under 20 lakhs and there was frankly nothing there that was even on par with a 7 year old Corolla.

That's the sad truth. The erstwhile D-segment sedans (Civic, Corolla and the likes) are irreplaceable today. Despite being priced on par with them, neither the current crop of C-segment sedans or crossovers are able to satisfy owners like us.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The City has all the features and was actually a decent option on paper but the quality when you see the car in person is horrendous.

I seriously hope Honda listens to all this and improves the reliability, quality, fit and finish of the City when it launches the next generation model.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

In the end, I just decided to wait it out till something worthy actually comes along.

That's the best thing to do. But then, is there anything worthy in this price band expected to reach our shores in the near future?

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Some love their Jazz so much they decided to swap with the newer model, only to come back shaking their heads in disappointment.

I have one such person right in my family. Having had a pleasant ownership experience with the first-gen Fit/Jazz in the US, he bought the new Jazz as soon as it was launched in India. I must say he isn't very happy with the car though he isn't complaining as well.

[CGB]

Originally Posted by arvi86

This is applicable for every Honda, starting from the City to the Accord and everything in between.

Very true ! Mine was the last but before car sold as they were making way for new city ! I went and opened the door of new city and I was like Ran aback to sales person and booked the old one! No regret in my decision even now! Though the new city might have new features than mine, still the tight finish and the design is miles ahead than the new one.