[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by MutantX

off-late I have been having this MASS phobia! I have been to their workshop atleast a dozen times trying to correct the braking issue with my SWIFT (P). Now I am afraid to goto MASS as I feel they are totally incompetent to handle any technical issue. Wonder when India will get strong automotive laws which will force manufacturers to recall faulty vehicles. I am sure if this was any-where in Europe, Middle east or Americas, the car will be recalled for faulty boot lock!

One can get away with almost anything in India. In case of automobiles, its like a cat and mouse game. Manufacturers sell poorly equipped cars (L and V variants) because people want them priced cheap. And when the same people have issues, manufacturers refuse to acknowledge it. I am referring to the poor braking in the L and V variants as a serious safety issue. This alone warrants a recall and replacement. The boot lock is not a fault IMO. It seems to be more of a setting issue which is affecting few cars.

[Sridhar K]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

One can get away with almost anything in India. In case of automobiles, its like a cat and mouse game. Manufacturers sell poorly equipped cars (L and V variants) because people want them priced cheap. And when the same people have issues, manufacturers refuse to acknowledge it. I am referring to the poor braking in the L and V variants as a serious safety issue. This alone warrants a recall and replacement. The boot lock is not a fault IMO. It seems to be more of a setting issue which is affecting few cars.

Was speaking to a relative who was involved earlier with MSIL on the brake design of the new Swift, Dzire etc. and I mentioned to him about the two problems (poor brakes on L and V variants during emergency situation and the brakes getting harder on VXI/LXI) being raised in this forums.

He said that he was not surprised at all with both the issues as there are quite a few design issues with non ABS brakes which becomes irrelevant in a abs scenario and perhaps why MSIL gives ABS on all Ertiga diesels. His pet peeve with MSIL is that they follow different yardsticks for India and the oversees market and the prefer cost savings over safety especially for the lower end models.

As soon as I mentioned about MutantX scenario of brakes becoming hard, immediately he had a smile and said engine does not generate enough vaccum at low rpms.

[fuel_addict]

That's quite a shocker for a potential V or L variant Swift buyer. Surprisingly, the older gen Swifts without ABS did not seem to have this issue. Or did they? It's a pity that Maruti lays so little importance to braking (safety). And to think of it, they don't even offer ABS on the V variants now. Appalling really. They should make ABS standard in all variants.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

As soon as I mentioned about MutantX scenario of brakes becoming hard, immediately he had a smile and said engine does not generate enough vaccum at low rpms.

This would explain the curious case I have when a drop in engine performance (due to a clogged air filter, blocked EGR etc) is accompanied by a drop in braking performance. Heck!!

Drive on,
Shibu.

[Sridhar K]

Originally Posted by shibujp

This would explain the curious case I have when a drop in engine performance (due to a clogged air filter, blocked EGR etc) is accompanied by a drop in braking performance. Heck!!

Drive on,
Shibu.

Not sure whether they are related but at least his comment is in sync with what MutantX has heard from Maruti

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2796810

[bluevolt]

Today I TD'ed my friends brand new Swift VDi, while the car is fantastic with excellent noise and vibration dampening but the rear space is not at par. The rear headroom is not sufficient for a person like me who is just over 5"11. Is it just me or the rear is not suited for people over 5"10? Also the leg room is more or less like my WagonR only. Breaks are fine for city use but definitely not for high speed highway driving. Zdi is must if you mostly drive on highways. VDi is fine for inter city commuting.

But if you are in driver' seat than the car is absolutely rocket with excellent pick up and effortless cruising. My only grudge is the rear headroom which is a deal breaker for me.

[qaqa]

I'm looking for a premium hatch, with a budget of around 7L. Since my monthly usage ~800km, I didn't see much benefit by going in for the diesels.

I'm wavering between the Jazz basic and the Swift 1.2P Zxi. Both cost the same, and feature-wise are almost on par (the features I need, atleast). The Jazz is larger and more exclusive, while the Swift seems more practical for everyday city use [The car will mostly have 2 occupants]

I would appreciate some inputs from the junta to help me decide..So, here goes -

1. Fuel Efficiency
a) What kind of mileage can I expect on the Swift 1.2P with normal (read, not too careful) driving in the city?
b) The Jazz ivtec engine engages the aggressive cam at speeds > 90kmph, which results in pretty average FE at high speed. Does the Swift's VTVT also do the same? What kind of FE can I expect on highway drives with near-constant speeds around 100-110?

[The Jazz reportedly offers a mileage of 13-14 in the city, and 15-16 on the highway]

2. Ride quality

The old Swift had a harsh ride, especially at city driving speeds. How does the new Swift fare in this department? Is the suspension as bone-jarring as the Hondas at city driving speeds?

3. Low-end torque

I understand that the Swift's petrol engine has been somewhat detuned. How do you find the torque at low speeds? Is there a need to drop down to 1st / 2nd often like the Hondas?

Eagerly await your inputs! I'm planning a back-to-back TD of both cars tomorrow to help me decide.

PS - Often, the Jazz is cited as being a "practical" car. But the poor GC, low-end torque and issues with visibility (thick A pillar) makes the Swift seem more practical in my case! But the Jazz still pulls at heart-strings!

PPS - There's Rs 1.2 lakh difference currently between the Swift Zxi and the Brio S(O)MT, which is leading me to more confusion! Would Brio be too much of a step-down from the Swift/Jazz?

[manjubp]

Originally Posted by qaqa

I'm looking for a premium hatch, with a budget of around 7L. Since my monthly usage ~800km, I didn't see much benefit by going in for the diesels.

I'm wavering between the Jazz basic and the Swift 1.2P Zxi. Both cost the same, and feature-wise are almost on par (the features I need, atleast). The Jazz is larger and more exclusive, while the Swift seems more practical for everyday city use [The car will mostly have 2 occupants]

I would appreciate some inputs from the junta to help me decide..So, here goes -

My experience with owning swift ZDI(~10K Kms) and previously owned VXI with ABS(80+K KMs), while swift meets most of your requirement, but not on breaking. It is simply pathetic, if you want to be safe and avoid hitting others in city, just avoid swift, until Maruti fix the breaking issue.

In petrol segment, Jazz beats Swift in almost all vectors.

[S-21]

I'm looking for a premium hatch, with a budget of around 7L. Since my monthly usage ~800km, I didn't see much benefit by going in for the diesels.

I would suggest you to go for the Jazz. As mentioned by manjubp " In petrol segment, Jazz beats Swift in almost all vectors." If its going to be a petrol car , jazz will be the best. The space and the comfort is very good. Also the Magic Seats will help a lot for the occasional long trips to the in laws place. i would also like to mention the Brio is brilliant as well . its spacious (don't go by the outside looks/size.) Inside , its really spacious. And for city its very comfy. The only problem will be ground clearance. its pretty low . The AC is good as well . Test drive the 3 of them , Brio Jazz and Swift and then take the final call. Also lot of complaints regarding the braking with the swift esp petrol. so keep that also in the mind.

Drive Safe.

[MutantX]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

That's quite a shocker for a potential V or L variant Swift buyer. Surprisingly, the older gen Swifts without ABS did not seem to have this issue. Or did they? It's a pity that Maruti lays so little importance to braking (safety). And to think of it, they don't even offer ABS on the V variants now. Appalling really. They should make ABS standard in all variants.

Sir, the problem is existent even in the Z variant (Petrol & Diesel). I have seen many !! i mean many owners who have reported this issue and maruti just doesnt want to listen. Says it is a driver's error which i think isnt the case.

[musicmanaman]

One thing I observed while test driving the New Swift, is the centre console that now a days is extended from the dash to the floor, is not very good for the left knee, I found it not very comfortable as my knee keeps hitting the console, have others had the same feeling, overall too the cabin feels very cramped, I would have to say there that the Wagon-r feels like a much better place to be in compared to the Swift, by the way I’m about 6 ft. and 100kg plus, so maybe it’s only big people who feel this way.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by qaqa

I'm looking for a premium hatch, with a budget of around 7L. Since my monthly usage ~800km, I didn't see much benefit by going in for the diesels.

I'm wavering between the Jazz basic and the Swift 1.2P Zxi. Both cost the same, and feature-wise are almost on par (the features I need, atleast). The Jazz is larger and more exclusive, while the Swift seems more practical for everyday city use [The car will mostly have 2 occupants]

I would appreciate some inputs from the junta to help me decide..So, here goes -

1. Fuel Efficiency
a) What kind of mileage can I expect on the Swift 1.2P with normal (read, not too careful) driving in the city?
b) The Jazz ivtec engine engages the aggressive cam at speeds > 90kmph, which results in pretty average FE at high speed. Does the Swift's VTVT also do the same? What kind of FE can I expect on highway drives with near-constant speeds around 100-110?

[The Jazz reportedly offers a mileage of 13-14 in the city, and 15-16 on the highway]

2. Ride quality

The old Swift had a harsh ride, especially at city driving speeds. How does the new Swift fare in this department? Is the suspension as bone-jarring as the Hondas at city driving speeds?

3. Low-end torque

I understand that the Swift's petrol engine has been somewhat detuned. How do you find the torque at low speeds? Is there a need to drop down to 1st / 2nd often like the Hondas?

Eagerly await your inputs! I'm planning a back-to-back TD of both cars tomorrow to help me decide.

PS - Often, the Jazz is cited as being a "practical" car. But the poor GC, low-end torque and issues with visibility (thick A pillar) makes the Swift seem more practical in my case! But the Jazz still pulls at heart-strings!

PPS - There's Rs 1.2 lakh difference currently between the Swift Zxi and the Brio S(O)MT, which is leading me to more confusion! Would Brio be too much of a step-down from the Swift/Jazz?

If petrol is what you are considering, the Jazz makes more sense overall. While the Swift is a more driver oriented car, the space packaging in the Jazz cannot be ignored. The poor low end torque and lower GC in the Jazz are issues which can be lived with. FE will be identical in both cars. A TD should be the best way to arrive at a decision.

Originally Posted by manjubp

My experience with owning swift ZDI(~10K Kms) and previously owned VXI with ABS(80+K KMs), while swift meets most of your requirement, but not on breaking. It is simply pathetic, if you want to be safe and avoid hitting others in city, just avoid swift, until Maruti fix the breaking issue.

In petrol segment, Jazz beats Swift in almost all vectors.

Originally Posted by MutantX

Sir, the problem is existent even in the Z variant (Petrol & Diesel). I have seen many !! i mean many owner who have reported this issue and maruti just doesnt want to listen. Says it is a driver's error which i think isnt the case.

I drive a ZDi and in my 3K+ km experience so far, I have not faced any issues with the braking. Couple of times under hard braking too the car has come to a halt fairly quickly. I understand the braking issues are more common in the L and V variants, and more so on the petrol variants. I haven't had a reason to complain so far. My only grudge is that the braking seems to be just a notch lower than my earlier ZXi. Could be due to the increased weight of the diesel car. Whatever be the case, it is a shame on Maruti's part to cut corners in the braking department.

[CowlFlap]

Originally Posted by qaqa

I'm looking for a premium hatch, with a budget of around 7L. Since my monthly usage ~800km, I didn't see much benefit by going in for the diesels.

I'm wavering between the Jazz basic and the Swift 1.2P Zxi. Both cost the same, and feature-wise are almost on par (the features I need, atleast). The Jazz is larger and more exclusive, while the Swift seems more practical for everyday city use [The car will mostly have 2 occupants]

I would appreciate some inputs from the junta to help me decide..So, here goes -

1. Fuel Efficiency
a) What kind of mileage can I expect on the Swift 1.2P with normal (read, not too careful) driving in the city?
b) The Jazz ivtec engine engages the aggressive cam at speeds > 90kmph, which results in pretty average FE at high speed. Does the Swift's VTVT also do the same? What kind of FE can I expect on highway drives with near-constant speeds around 100-110?

[The Jazz reportedly offers a mileage of 13-14 in the city, and 15-16 on the highway]

2. Ride quality

The old Swift had a harsh ride, especially at city driving speeds. How does the new Swift fare in this department? Is the suspension as bone-jarring as the Hondas at city driving speeds?

3. Low-end torque

I understand that the Swift's petrol engine has been somewhat detuned. How do you find the torque at low speeds? Is there a need to drop down to 1st / 2nd often like the Hondas?

Eagerly await your inputs! I'm planning a back-to-back TD of both cars tomorrow to help me decide.

PS - Often, the Jazz is cited as being a "practical" car. But the poor GC, low-end torque and issues with visibility (thick A pillar) makes the Swift seem more practical in my case! But the Jazz still pulls at heart-strings!

PPS - There's Rs 1.2 lakh difference currently between the Swift Zxi and the Brio S(O)MT, which is leading me to more confusion! Would Brio be too much of a step-down from the Swift/Jazz?

qaqa,
The jazz would appear to be the better option on paper, given your preferences. Much would depend on your TD evaluation of both cars. If possible, I would TD both cars over the same stretch of road. I’ve worked out a route that I take for TDing every car – most showrooms are willing to do this (and more) these days.

I Td’d the Brio, and sometimes I wish I hadn’t! It was very disappointing, to say the least. I’ve had to go back to the drawing board in my search for a fitting hatch. I had narrowed down the Brio after much comparision with other hatchbacks, but the ride quality (particularly in the rear seat) was bone jarring and unexpected. Though the price seems not-bad, it does need to sort out its suspension issues.

Unfortunately, the Jazz is not readily available (atleast from what two different dealers say) for a test drive. So, can’t quite comment on it. Would love to hear your comments after your TD on the Jazz.

[Sridhar K]

Completed 1000 Kms and got the first service done on my ZDI. The lugging that was very prevalent between 1000-1500 rpm has reduced a lot. The mileage I got was 16KMPL with a mix of city and suburban driving in not so much peak traffic.

Accessories:

1) Since I did not like the MGA bumper corner protector available for the new Swift, got the old Swift's bumper corner protector and painted them with body color as shown below.


2) MGA under body painting and

3) Silencer painting in silver color

[jingaboysr]

I'm just back from another 1500km odd long drive with my ZDi and the odo reads 6500 now, in less than 3 months.
FE seems to be between 16.5 and 17.5 (full tank to full tank, spirited driving).

While driving back, once when I rolled down the windows, I could hear a light metallic rubbing noise from the tyres. Not sure if it was from the front or back. It persisted for some time, and then I applied the brakes for a moment and released, thinking that there might be some stone/dirt on my front disc/back drum. Surprisingly after a couple of attempts with braking, the sound went off on its own and did not come back yet. What could have been the issue?

Another strange thing I noticed while I was trying to apply the brakes to get rid of the noise. Looks like a similar experience what MutanX had with brakes being ineffective. It is easily reproducible, I tried the below steps.
1)Take the car to an open stretch and take to 80-100 kmph.
2) Now completely press and hold the clutch pedal.
3)With the clutch pedal still depressed fully, repeatedly try to apply and release brakes momentarily, like press..release cycle (If you have driven old ambys, we used to call this brake pumping). After some 3-4 times, you can feel that the brake pedal becomes rock hard and the brake feels like un-assisted, just like if you try to stop the car which is rolling with engine switched off.

I am yet to check this in other cars, but is this normal?