[subodh]

Imagine this scenario: Butch Cassidy riding the western sand dunes; he does it with style, panache and goes on and on and on. And the Sundance Kid is very well-known for his shooting styles and can take on any fighter when it comes to a gunfight. He has style- the women go gaga over him. When I think about our two new entrants in the SUV sweepstakes, this is the parallel that comes to mind.

Enter the Force One SUV.


The Butch of the gang. As we look at this monster, we can immediately relate to how much of an all-rounder vehicle it is. It will ride the sand dunes long and strong. It has the powers of the horses which can put lot of unicorns to shame. The space it offers its riders can put to shame "superb" creatures gliding on the smooth black surface. And the three-pointed star adorning the heart of this beast has been tried and tested for years long. Undefeatable endurance and the power to go on and on for decades to come. Crossing all the hurdles without getting any scratches is a skill not many able beasts are capable of showing in the same league. But then...

Firing its guns at full speed, without missing out on any of its targeted features, in comes our Mahindra XUV5OO a.k.a. the Sundance Kid.


Riding strong on its front two legs (and newly added power to rear two legs as optional!), this is not a traditional "man's man" and shows off its metrosexual image with flair. Dressed to kill in shiny attire and bling to match, he attracts so much attention that even the ladies will go green with envy. Although some workout to tone up that backside wouldn't hurt! Nevertheless, with features shooting off so fast from its loaded gun, the competition does not stand a chance and has to quickly give in and make way for this new urban killer. Sample this: the XUV5OO can tell the rider if they are going in wrong direction (GPS maps), or for how long it can ride the black surface without dying of thrist (Distance to empty). And that is just the beginning.

Without further ado...starting off the comparison: Force One versus Mahindra XUV 500

The Team: This comparo was taken up by three Team BHPians over a couple of mild February weekends in Pune:

Dot: The good
He is the good guy of the group touching all the materials and looking at the finer details of vehicles. Always will evaluate the vehicle's Pro's and con's and will come to a logical conclusion.

Monaro CV8: The bad
He is the bad boy of the group. He owns an SUV himself and is always has comparision benchmarks present while we testdrive the vehicles for e.g. Crawl feature etc.

Subodh: The ugly
I am the nightmare of the Sales Advisors. They are always advised to buckle up when I take the wheel. Love pushing each car to its limits and it has to be redlined at least once in my hands. I put to test the braking, the ABS and the stabilily of the vehicle at high speeds. I take the vehicles on tracks which even a JCB might think twice before putting (ok maybe that was a little bit of exaggeration )

That's it for the starting count: let the battle begin! Dot and Monaro CV8 will be giving their impressions in the posts to follow...

[Monaro CV8]

THE XUV 5OO vs the Force One

XUV5OO

Mahindra's breakthrough - the XUV. Answer to the crossovers of yore - the Aria and the like.
She's quite the looker, a stunner, eye-candy if you like..

Awesome road presence, available in 4x4 & 4x2 variants. Options available in trims too; talk about customization..

The mHawk engine is in the right state of tune in the XUV. Power is at your feet, literally.
The 330Nm torque engine is peppy and there is no noticeable low end turbo lag. The gear shift is spot on & 6 gear overdrive slot is a boon for Highway Cruising.

Suspension setup is also good, no typical yawing - like its predecessor, the Scorpio & the Xylo. Great Dynamics.

Shorter turning radius & a high seating position enables easy manoeuvrability. Steering is light & a few may miss the spot-on steering feedback one may expect from the actual road surface.
This car drives, brakes (all 4 discs) & feels like a sedan. But the shortcoming owing to this can also be attributed to the lack of confidence to take this car offroading. Everything on the interior feels not so tough.

I found the accelerator pedal when depressed after a certain revving, to loose grip from the foot and dip suddenly. Not good when you are driving at high rpms.
The dead pedal is awfully placed in the foot tunnel, owing to my left foot getting stuck between the dead pedal and the clutch, while shifting.

I liked the all around view looking from the inside of this car: from the driver's seat. Large Windows & a big windshield gives a good driving perspective.
A lot has been talked about the electronics and the gizmos. Reliability of these features has also been a major issue for Mahindra. But I guess these are teething problems.

The other feature I absolutely liked in this car are the Static Turning Lights. These are ideally placed between the low beam headlamps & the turn indicator light and turn on when the steering turns more than 40 degrees from the center. Neat!

Sad thing to know that the Foot-board is not a part of the standard accessory.

The dealership was busy with the huge number of TDs & inquiries for the XUV. But we were attended to, on a short notice. The SA was not enthusiastic about letting us take the car for an offroading TD.

To conclude: Mahindra's have an excellent product & have managed to carve a niche for themselves by introducing a fully loaded car.
IMO they have tried to do an overkill with the features list. Rather, much more resources could have been employed to improve the basic characteristic of the car.

FORCE ONE

Force one, intelligently disguised as the "explorer" of all terrains, literally..
The first time I saw this car, thought somebody's making a bad copy of the Endy. But after we got to spend some time with the car, you come to know, it has its character.

The purely understated looks, the sparse availability of features, makes this car a totally utilitarian truck meant to be thrown around without any hassles..

What I liked about this car is the no-nonsense, to the point attitude - no fancy gizmos, no electronics, no studio lighting effect, nothing more than the drivability..

Daimler AG licensed engine does absolute justice to the rugged chassis of the Force One. The engines comes to life as soon as the needle jumps 2000rpm. The 321 Nm Torque in no way feels inadequate or underpowered.
During our TD on an off road terrain, I found this car more willing to indulge, owing to its larger wheel base I suppose. The engine seems perfectly tuned with enough torque available at the wheels so that the car can crawl up a steep slope, this while taking the right foot off the accelerator. The confidence level is up there when you take this beast off-road

Steering feedback is very direct, not awry, but gives a good feel of the road surface. Suspension setup seemed quite a pleasant surprise - kudos to Lotus ! This car is a no-boat! Brakes are not sharp.

I found 'play' in the gear shift lever :- meaning, while upshifting/ downshifting one is not sure if the lever is following your will. There is a moment which leaves you guessing if its slotting in that 2nd gear you want or the 4th gear..

The finish & quality of the plastics does scream out its gene pool shared from the land of the Mings. Lets hope the chaps at Force motors will show some improvement over the next lot of SUVs that will roll out.
AC vents look like they are borrowed from the Trax and have limited adjustment. IMO they are prone to break after a few medium to rough uses.

Huge leg room & space to pack up a family and their luggage too..bang for the buck. One gets a big car (read an Indian SUV), with lots of room. Two seating variants available - 1. captain seats in the middle row & 2. a bench in the middle row.

The dealership experience - spot on! They were paying attention to what the customer had to say, and the SA was pretty keen on letting us TD the car on any type of surface

To conclude: Force One needs to pull up their game regarding the interior trim & overall finish. Fewer long term ownership reviews available, which means not many teething problems are reported/ known - which can be a major disadvantage. The 4x4 variant which is speculated to be launched by Sept/ Nov' 2012 will be worth waiting, IMO.



Attached: A brief overview of Technical Specifications compared for both cars.
Attachment 905803

edit: @Subodh - haa haa. The Good, the Bad & the Ugly..

[dot]

Aug -Sep 2011.
Launch of two SUVs in the market; XUV5OO and the Force One. Both trying to play in a similar price segment. Very quickly XUV5OO takes all the honors and awards while Force One is merely a subject of an obligatory nod and some timid curiosity.

Till they started to show up on the roads. XUV5OO is a natural eye candy. On the other hand, the butch Force One had a sense of a, "wow, what is that" kind of a presence.

I went to check out XUV500 late November 2011. The fit and finish of the interiors was a tad disappointing for some reason, moreover the ride of the TD vehicle was nothing to talk about. Yes, loads of gizmos, agreed, but driving pleasure was lacking. An issue of great expectations perhaps.


Fast forward to Feb 2012. A few spottings of the Force One on the road led to a quick decision to test drive the vehicle. That experience turned out to be eye opening.

As soon as you step into the vehicle, you get an immediate sense of space, and lots of it. Bucket seats of the first and second row are top notch and acres of leg room is available in all the three rows. The plastic trim fit and finish is not that great. Dashboard is well laid out, rudimentary, but not rustic. However what spoils the show is lack of final execution. Odd ends of rubber and plastics show up. Naked bolts appear on the floor. One has to remember that a customer will be shelling out 12.7 Lakhs. Not cheap, by most standards.


Dashboard layout is decent. Not many gizmos. May disappoint urban SUV enthusiasts.


These types of poor executions are not acceptable anymore.




Come on, whats the deal with these open nuts and screw-heads. Even 4 lakh rupee vehicles comes with covers and housings.


The fun part starts once you fire the engine. The note is very sweet and the typical diesel clatter dies down as soon as you hit the gas. Noise insulation inside the cabin can be improved though. Gear shifts are slick. As a sedan owner, I didnt find any discomfort of changing gears or felt massive vibrations on the gear shifter. The Force One is quite agile. Which is surprising given its looks. The SUV easily rushes to 3800-4000 RPM when floored, which is very close to its red-line; and before one realizes, 100 clicks comes up fast. The turbo kicks in around 2000RPM and the resultant thrust is very satisfying. Even though the brakes are a front discs and rear drums combo, it does the job of stopping on demand.

Here are some pictures of the Force One on rocky hillocks
















Throw anything at me, I will take it!





The best part of driving the Force One is handling. The Force One takes on proper roads as well as off roads with equal elan. Sharp turns are executed with minimal body roll and undulations on the road is soaked up by the suspension without jarring passengers in all the three rows. When taken off road, the vehicle comes really alive. It literarily eats rocks, small boulders which comes across its path without any fuss. Throw it against a steep rocky incline and the rear wheel driven transmission never flutters to deliver the goods. All that torque comes to good use and we never felt that Force One will struggle in any kind of road. In fact we had massive fun in pitting the vehicle on silly paths that we would have normally not thought of. It developed so much confidence in that short period of acquaintance. If I have to go anywhere in India, I would not think of road conditions if I were driving this vehicle.

While driving in the sun we felt that the Force One has a weak AC. The sales guy who had accompanied us said that coolant gas had leaked. Which was not a great news to hear. But these niggles were minor compared to the fun we had in test drive.


Once we were back home, we started comparing the Force One to other offerings in the segment and naturally the discussions came to the XUV5OO. It was decided to recheck the XUV5OO once again.

This time we found ourselves in a new XUV5OO TD vehicle which had done only 1300 Kms. The sales person said that the new TD vehicle belonged to the second lot. I did notice a difference in interior fit and finish. As if the XUV5OO has become a better vehicle all of a sudden. What I had observed a few months back, like gaps and open ends in the dashboard, plastic trim and rubber seals, seemed be ironed out in the new vehicle. Plastics does not have sharp edges, bolts are hidden well inside casings. Leather seat finish also seemed better. While there is loads of space inside the XUV5OO, the bulk of the trim seems to create an impression of eating into that space. Specially the third row is reasonably cramped. Overall fit and finish does talk of a well thought out interiors, fit for someone to plonk 13-14lakhs into it.


Ambient light looks a little cheesy, IMO.


Nice fit and finish, coated plastics and rounded corners and ends.


Leather fit and finish is good, but can be improved.


Some loose ends, the door seal ends are open.


Dashboard layout is cool and contemporary.

The engine also felt better, more responsive in this new vehicle. At idle, it was hard to hear the diesel clatter, showing noise insulation inside the cabin is pretty good. Floor the accelerator and the engine lets out a nice throaty growl. We tried to redline the XUV5OO and it obliged. However the rush was missing, XUV is a refined beast. Gear shifts are very slick affairs and thanks to the neat positioning of the central arm rest, I could rest my left elbow and easily shift gears without lifting the hand. Suspension of XUV5OO is great, rapid turns with accelerations are executed with minimum body roll. Brakes are excellent and stops the 2 tonner from 100+ to full stop without any fuss. We took the XUV5OO over some mud tracks and felt no difference. Wished we could take the vehicle to the same spot where we off roaded the Force One. We felt that due to the low clearance of the front spoiler, the XUV may not be able to take on road with loads of boulders. XUV is primarily designed to be a cool urban roadster with soft roading abilities.






Twists, turns, heavy braking on mud surfaces are dealt off swiftly.





I loved the start- stop fuel saving feature of the XUV5OO. The vehicle kills the engine when stationary for four or five seconds. To restart, depress the clutch pedal and engine comes back to life. We tested the efficacy of the feature in heavy traffic over a couple of signals. Worked like a charm. Nice customer-wow feature. However the feature can be disabled by a switch.


So there we were. After completing the face-off between Force One and XUV5OO we felt that if we have to put down our money, it would probably be on the XUV5OO. But my heart has a special place for the Force One. Just yesterday, I was waiting in the Civic, and a black colored Force One passed by and my heart fluttered for a sec. I hope it meets sales success as it is a pretty good vehicle to own and make your own road.

[noopster]

Note From Team-BHP Support-Team: Thread moved from Assembly Line to Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports section. Thank you for sharing!

[Swanand Inamdar]

W-O-W! Thats all I can say while going through the comparo.

What an apt comparo, this one has been. Only vehicle missing, is the new Safari. But with its launch a few months away, one can always add that factor to this head to head comparison. Should make this one a true blue Indian SUV Comparo Thread!

By the looks of the comparo, I take this home -

The Force One literally needs an image overhaul. With the amount of pro's it has, Force sure can see some decent sales figures, once the niggles are sorted out. Some agressive advertising is the need of the hour. For some reason, the Force One comes across as a vehicle meant mainly for the rural class, IMO. That, needs to be sorted out, cause this one can be as urban as any sedan out there.

The XUV has been spoken about a lot. By us, by others, by the company and the customers. Hence, that car gets a head start in a race like this.
M&M is not known for niggles free vehicles, and if they sort out those, this one can sail to higher grounds, than it currently does (which by no means, is sub satisfactory! The numbers speak for itself. Really).

You guys had a rocking time doing this. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly . Literally. Perfect description there by Subodh.

Great effort there, guys. Thanks for sharing this.

[swiftnfurious]

Wonderful comparo. As mentioned in the above post, adding Safari Storme [once it launches] would be Awesome. Looks like you guys had a lot of fun with these TDs.

Did you guys check with the Force SE how many vehicles have been sold so far? I feel that they should make sure to incorporate all the feedbacks when they launch the 4WD and make sure the customers get a much better package. They also need to re-position this vehicle to attract more buyers. A sub 10L price for 2WD should bring in some extra sales. They can't be stubborn about the prices and be a direct competition to XUV 500!

What I like about M&M is the improvements they have made after the launch! The car was an instant hit and would have continued to be so even if they didn't improve the fit & finish. But they took efforts to make the product better and hence my vote goes there. It's high time that Force starts working with this attitude, if they want to remain competitive in this space.

Once again THANK YOU for a beautiful thread, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly!

[neel385]

Very nice comparison.
Another point that goes against the Force One is the poor service network. Force motors needs to ramp up its sales and service network fast if it wants the vehicle to pick up any decent sales.

[BlackPearl]

Great comparo Dot, Monaro CV8 and Subodh. Have you guys felt that the bulk of the Force One might go against it in those hilly areas of Himachal and North East? Also, if possible, please try to do a TD of the XUV5OO on those steep inclines that you have mentioned and let us know if the FWD faces any problem.

[Guderian]

Fabulous comparision and write up dot, Monaro and Subodh !
Collaboration at its best.
Service network is certainly one worrisome area of the Force 1, besides of course quality matters, fit and finish. However even the XUV seems to be having initial hiccups.
Incidentally what equipments do you think the Force 1 4X4 would be shod with ? Any predictions whether it would have, like the Gurkha, differential locks etc ? With the all the tools of the OTR trade in it, the Force 1 4X4 would be irresistable...to heck with the service issues I'd say.

Shabash and well done guys !

[220kmph]

Spot on with the reviews. I dare say that about 75 % of India's SUV wanna-bes' are waiting in the wings for the 4x4 version (and I am one of them)!! The people at Force motors have been quite pro-active and have been surely but silently taking in feedbacks and reviews(check out their FB page @ SUV Force One).

Photographs don't do justice to the F1. Seeing it in the flesh just blows your breath away.

Like any true blue off-roader, the Force One has minimal of electronics that could cause maximum trouble when out in the rough. We are already hearing horror stories of the XUV's Tyre pressure monitoring system giving erroneous readings.

The 4x4 version of the F1 is surely going to be a deal-breaker. We now have to only wait and watch.

[dot]

Appreciate the feedback, thanks guys. We had a great time TD-ing and writing about our experiences. Glad that you liked it.

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

With the amount of pro's it has, Force sure can see some decent sales figures, once the niggles are sorted out. Some agressive advertising is the need of the hour. For some reason, the Force One comes across as a vehicle meant mainly for the rural class, IMO. That, needs to be sorted out, cause this one can be as urban as any sedan out there.

The angular design heightens the perception of the rural look.

Interiors is one major area which needs improvement. What Force really needs to do is rework on fit and finish of interiors. If they can do that, Force One will be a really good vehicle and image will take care of itself quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

The XUV has been spoken about a lot. By us, by others, by the company and the customers. Hence, that car gets a head start in a race like this.
M&M is not known for niggles free vehicles, and if they sort out those, this one can sail to higher grounds, than it currently does (which by no means, is sub satisfactory! The numbers speak for itself. Really).

The market is hungry for a good SUV in the 10-12 Lakh range. All we need is a champ like what Innova is for MUVs. Is XUV the Innova of SUVs? At this point of time, probably yes.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I feel that they should make sure to incorporate all the feedbacks when they launch the 4WD and make sure the customers get a much better package. They also need to re-position this vehicle to attract more buyers. A sub 10L price for 2WD should bring in some extra sales.

Exactly.
We spoke to the sales assistants. They acknowledged that they are receiving numerous suggestions and feedback regarding improvements which they are passing on to the company. For example, it seems majority of customers would like to have ABS and airbags. Later down the year, the Force One will have these safety features.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

What I like about M&M is the improvements they have made after the launch! The car was an instant hit and would have continued to be so even if they didn't improve the fit & finish. But they took efforts to make the product better and hence my vote goes there. It's high time that Force starts working with this attitude, if they want to remain competitive in this space.

Agreed. I am pretty sure that if the first lot and second lot vehicles are compared side by side, one will spot improvements in the second lot.
Great going, M&M.

Originally Posted by neel385

Another point that goes against the Force One is the poor service network. Force motors needs to ramp up its sales and service network fast if it wants the vehicle to pick up any decent sales.

Originally Posted by Guderian

Service network is certainly one worrisome area of the Force 1, besides of course quality matters, fit and finish.

Yes, this is one area where Force Motors really need to focus and deliver, if they are serious about making a mark in the personal vehicle segment.

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Have you guys felt that the bulk of the Force One might go against it in those hilly areas of Himachal and North East?

If I compare the dimensions of Force One with Safari, they are very similar. Force One is slightly longer. I feel where ever Safari has gone, Force One can also go. Please check a youtube video titled "Chaap rasta" to see where a Safari has gone. That video gives me shivers.

Originally Posted by Guderian

Incidentally what equipments do you think the Force 1 4X4 would be shod with ? Any predictions whether it would have,

Apart for the differential locks, ABS and airbags,
An inclinometer perhaps?
Built in GPS.

[Monaro CV8]

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

The Force One literally needs an image overhaul. With the amount of pro's it has, Force sure can see some decent sales figures, once the niggles are sorted out. Some agressive advertising is the need of the hour. For some reason, the Force One comes across as a vehicle meant mainly for the rural class, IMO. That, needs to be sorted out, cause this one can be as urban as any sedan out there.

Thats so right!
Force One, needs to get some aggressive marketing done. I remember, on the day of the TD, the SA was telling us that most of the inquiries & the related TDs are from the Semi-Urban/ Rural section.
Now after laying my hands on one and driving one, I can purely say that Force One can also be an enthusiast's car. No electronics "that will fail", to worry about. Just plain jane, do whats its told work-horse. Over the coming years, I wish this car will be the underdog of Indian SUVs.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

It's high time that Force starts working with this attitude, if they want to remain competitive in this space.

Originally Posted by neel385

Very nice comparison.
Another point that goes against the Force One is the poor service network.

Umm..part of what you say is correct. As a matter of fact, there are two M&M Service centres & Force Motors service center in Pune. Maybe that's related to the volumes each cars have sold in the market.

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Have you guys felt that the bulk of the Force One might go against it in those hilly areas of Himachal and North East? Also, if possible, please try to do a TD of the XUV5OO on those steep inclines that you have mentioned and let us know if the FWD faces any problem.

Trust me mate, I would anyday bet my horses on the Force One on the terrains of the North-East! Not so sure that the XUVs would fare well there.

Originally Posted by Guderian

Incidentally what equipments do you think the Force 1 4X4 would be shod with ? Any predictions whether it would have, like the Gurkha, differential locks etc ? With the all the tools of the OTR trade in it, the Force 1 4X4 would be irresistable...to heck with the service issues I'd say.

Yes HG, the Force One would be an awesome package with the Gurkha Kit!
Be prepared for a major round of improvements in the next batch of Force Ones.

Originally Posted by Guderian

Shabash and well done guys !

Now, what more do us Subhedars want, than Herr' Generale's Pat on the back. Stan Hupp !!

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by dot

If I compare the dimensions of Force One with Safari, they are very similar. Force One is slightly longer. I feel where ever Safari has gone, Force One can also go. Please check a Youtube video titled "Chaap rasta" to see where a Safari has gone. That video gives me shivers.

That video is by fellow bhpian Adc.

The reason I asked about the dimension is because I know a person (a very good driver) who took his 4x4 Endeavour (1st Generation) to the North East. I spoke to him a few days back and he said that he had a horrible experience with the bulk of the Endeavour. He was all praises for the GC and ruggedness, but the length had caused major problems on tight hairpin turns. I feel the Force One will also face the same problem as it looks very similar in size to the Endy.
P.S: A comparison report with the Endeavour will be very helpful.

[kevinephraim]

Subodh, Monaro and Dot,

Thanks for the awesome comparision!!!!!!

Noticed that the XUV500 is registered earlier than the Force One, so am I right in assuming that the XUV pictures are of the initial TD in Aug/Sept 2011 and the Force One pictures are in Feb 2012?

As all have said before, it does look like Mahindra is listening to the feedback and improving the XUV500 with every batch. Hopefully Force motors will do the same.

"Originally quoted by BlackPearl
The reason I asked about the dimension is because ~ he had a horrible experience with the bulk of the Endeavour. He was all praises for the GC and ruggedness, but the length had caused major problems on tight hairpin turns. I feel the Force One will also face the same problem as it looks very similar in size to the Endy.
P.S: A comparison report with the Endeavour will be very helpful. "

The Force One is based on the same body /chassis as the Guangdong Foday Explorer III which in turn is based on the Ford Explorer / Everest / Endeavour / Ranger chassis. A comparision of the Ford Endy(overall length = 5060mm , wheelbase = 2860mm) shows the body to be larger than the Force One, albiet the wheelbase is shorter than the Force One (overall length = 4860mm , wheelbase = 3025).

I guess this translates as a larger turning radius for the ForceOne and a shorter one for the Endy, though the length of the body may nullify that!! Did i hear some one say "Catch 22"?

[pganapathy]

Congrats on an awesome review GOOD, BAD and UGLY

It seems that the XUV is a soft roader at best, which makes it a perfect city car but not something that can take abuse, unlike their older products like the Bolero and Scorpio. I guess that is the price you pay for better road manners and comfort. Not that it can't be done, as shown by the Porsche Cayenne, but it takes serious engineering might and skill to do so.

I am impressed with M&M for the quick improvement in a few months. They are truly following the principle of Kaizen.

The F1 is actually a brilliant off road vehicle that would sell brilliantly if they could actually work on QC and fit and finish. A very unfortunate issue that is keeping sales low. In addition, their service centres are very sparse indeed. Work on those two and this would be the vehicle of choice for rural India for sure and would even sell well in urban India (where jungle rules say might is right unfortunately Do you really want that big a vehicle in your rear view mirror).