[iamswift]

Originally Posted by coolclouds

Only concern is the gear shift which is not falling in slot properly especially if directly shifting from fifth to third

Check with MASS if adjusting clutch solves this.

[apachelongbow]

I happened to watch a show on Discovery Turbo yesterday, which set me thinking. In the show they simulated a rear end accident using a Ford vehicle (equivalent to a small MUV like Ertiga), with dummies in the rear most bench. This vehicle was stationary, simulating a stop at a signal, where in a truck (equivalent to a LCV) rear ends it at 40kmph. The results were shocking. In slow motion camera I could see that the heads of both the dummies in the rear bench actually colliding with the front of the LCV and rebounding on impact :o The tagline was 'please think before you pack your kids in the rear seat of a muv, on a school run'
I am now thinking this kind of accident is so common in India, and how safe is Ertiga, XUV, Eeco, Innova, Xylo and the likes of all 7 seaters??

[coolclouds]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I happened to watch a show on Discovery Turbo yesterday, which set me thinking. In the show they simulated a rear end accident using a Ford vehicle (equivalent to a small MUV like Ertiga), with dummies in the rear most bench. This vehicle was stationary, simulating a stop at a signal, where in a truck (equivalent to a LCV) rear ends it at 40kmph. The results were shocking. In slow motion camera I could see that the heads of both the dummies in the rear bench actually colliding with the front of the LCV and rebounding on impact :o The tagline was 'please think before you pack your kids in the rear seat of a muv, on a school run'
I am now thinking this kind of accident is so common in India, and how safe is Ertiga, XUV, Eeco, Innova, Xylo and the likes of all 7 seaters??

Very true! I remember seeing a Tavera involved in a series of accident few years back. Both front and rear were damaged but the damages to rear was too high compared to front, thankfully no one was in the rear bench.

Getting out of the vehicle also is a task in such accidents.

[srishiva]

Add to it, the urge to shorten the vehicle length and reduce the rear bumper effectiveness for shock absorption.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I am now thinking this kind of accident is so common in India, and how safe is Ertiga, XUV, Eeco, Innova, Xylo and the likes of all 7 seaters??

But what about the side-collision impact? In that case, all cars including sedans (that don't have side airbags) will face the same destiny, I think!

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

But what about the side-collision impact? In that case, all cars including sedans (that don't have side airbags) will face the same destiny, I think!

All cars including smallest of hatchbacks (read Nano) have side impact beams. These impact beams prevent intrusion into the passenger area, making the car safe. Also on wearing seatbelts, the human body cannot move sideways, hence preventing injuries due to lateral (sidewise) impact.
Regarding rear seats in an Ertiga, even if one is seatbelted, his/her head whiplashes backwards during impact and hits the vehicle behind.

[nishant_kingpin]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Add to it, the urge to shorten the vehicle length and reduce the rear bumper effectiveness for shock absorption.

This definitely has a lot of significance which our finance ministers didn't consider while trying to create a small car hub out if India. Passenger safety took a back seat right there.

[mpksuhas]

I too saw that episode on discovery turbo. Yes its bit alarming however I guess other than a sedan or station wagon cars all cars will face the same issue. Ertiga is not an exception. Lack of test guidelines for rear collesion scenarios only adds to the problem.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

All cars including smallest of hatchbacks (read Nano) have side impact beams. These impact beams prevent intrusion into the passenger area, making the car safe. Also on wearing seatbelts, the human body cannot move sideways, hence preventing injuries due to lateral (sidewise) impact.

Though I would like to share my experience here. An Accent hurling towards my car @ 40-50kmph, at a roundabout, collided directly on the B pillar. TATA steel saved the day for me. The hit was taken by both the doors & the B pillar. Most importantly I was alone in the car & I felt only a minor shunt, hence continued, without bothering to get down & assess the damage. I realized the extent of damage only after I reached home. Link to the pictures --> http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-term-ownership-reviews/89093-tata-indica-dlx-one-lakh-kms-beyond-9.html#post2791716

[virgovencat]

Team,

I am writing this in a only hope to resolve my issue and ensure there is no one compromises on Safety if there is a design flaw. Hope one of you come forward to resolve this. Please do not close this case just by saying that "You have an upsize tyre configuration and hence we will not help", this issue has nothing to do with Tyre / Rim Upzize technically.

Vehicle: Maruti Eritga Zdi.
Tyre Size : 195/60/R15
Tyre Make : Continental (CPC2)
Alloys: 6.5J*15


Issue started after I took the delivery of my vehicle on the 07Sept2012 and back home I noticed the rear left tyre angle skewed inward on the top and bottom skewed outward. Took the vehicle to a tyre store known to me, checked the alignment and found the rear Camber value at -1.43 and immediately went to Khiviraj on 08Sept2012 and reported the same. I in the mean while also upgraded the Tyres and Rim to 195/60/R15 and 6.5J*15 from the stock size of 185/65/R15 and 5.5J*15.

With all the evaluations done by Khiviraj Service they ascertained that the Rear Axle was defective and hence ordered a new one from MGA and replaced the same on 17Sept2012 but to their surprise it still did not solve the problem and the Camber still had deviated values (angles) and that’s when the Service team put up two more Ertiga’s from their Service yard and found them also to have the deviation. (TN-18 L 5004) and (Ertiga with Chassis no. 123078, Engine No. 1923968).

On being questioned they did not have an answer but when Mr. Narayanan (Territory Service Manager – Maruti Suzuki India Ltd) was contacted he asked me to bring the vehicle and did some basic checks only to issue an letter stating that the Camber values were within the limits and no abnormality noticed.

My Observations and concerns
What are the permissible limits of the Camber values for Ertiga, the Vehicle Service Manual does not have these…?
Can I approach ARAI Pune to get the permissible values and how did this vehicle pass the homologation process if it is a deviation.
If Maruti is able to close this issue of mine stating the values are within the permissible values why was the Rear Axle on a new vehicle replaced when I initially reported this issue? Also it did not bring in any changes to the Camber values after replacement, the values are still the same.
I have gone over and above this to check on the various other Ertiga’s and found this visual deviation on the rear left wheel to be common and noticeble by visual eye, if this is a design flaw what can I do to resolve? Will Maruti do a Recall if it realises it to be a potential safety issue.
Can I approach Consumer Court to get this issue fixed?


Regards,
Ashok Narayanan

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by virgovencat

Issue started after I took the delivery of my vehicle on the 07Sept2012 and back home I noticed the rear left tyre angle skewed inward on the top and bottom skewed outward. Took the vehicle to a tyre store known to me, checked the alignment and found the rear Camber value at -1.43

Every alignment report specifies the minimum & maximum values of all the angles, the initial reading & the final reading. If your initial reading was way out of the specified range, the alignment adjustment should have brought it within the specified limits. From the report please let us know the initial reading, specified limits (minimum & maximum values) & the final reading.

I am sharing below the Caster, Camber readings for my car (Indica) just for your reference, it may vary for the Ertiga or could be same across vehicles (I am not so sure)

[virgovencat]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Every alignment report specifies the minimum & maximum values of all the angles, the initial reading & the final reading. If your initial reading was way out of the specified range, the alignment adjustment should have brought it within the specified limits. From the report please let us know the initial reading, specified limits (minimum & maximum values) & the final reading.

I am sharing below the Caster, Camber readings for my car (Indica) just for your reference, it may vary for the Ertiga or could be same across vehicles (I am not so sure)

Attachment 1002025

Thanks for the content, but the Ertiga does not have the rear Camber which can be changed. The rear Camber is FIXED and is attached to the rear axle. In Maruti only Baleno is a vehicle where in the Camber is alterable by adjustments.
Also Maruti Engineers were not able to disclose the Camber Value range so that I could check.
Ideally The Camber value should be close to 0 which will ensure you have the Tyre in maximum contact with the road and hence better traction and braking ability.

[Sankar]

Does other Ertigas in the yard have similar chambers? And is this camber angle only on the left rear wheel or do both rear wheels look the same?

It's not necessary that camber angle be 0, some vehicles can have + or - camber as designed to aid vehicle dynamics. That's why I asked if other Ertigas look the same and if both rear wheels are cambered same.

[aaggoswami]

I agree with Sankar. sometimes manufacturers deliberately give a non zero camber so that when the car is loaded, maximum tyre patch is available for contact on road. Even earlier m800 had this non zero camber. As the load on the rear increases the non zero camber would would get changed such that maximum amount of tyre touches the ground. in case of fwd cars the front wheels also have non zero camber which helps them to have more contact patch when they are turning.
as long as you dont have an uneven wear or handling problem no need to worry. At the same time I would like to update myself is there is something wrong in my post.

Apart from baleno, to the best of my knowledge, even esteem had adjustable camber.

[kkg]

When I bought my Spark 5 yrs back, like you I also observed that the rear left tyre was tilted a bit inwards. Upon observing many Sparks afterwards, all of them had such camber setting. Till now I have not faced any issue, with tyres or shocks.

My inlaws also have Ertiga zdi. I would check the setting and may let to know if it also has same settings/problem.