[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I haven't driven the Indian Elantra yet so don't want to comment too much. Though a few weeks ago I drove one in the US along with a Cruze and Focus that I had for 3 weeks. The Elantra was positively the worst of the 3, with no driver feel, too light and just never felt confident. The Cruze was better and the Focus was the best.

I dont think its about pushing a particular car. We all come here to share our own thoughts and discuss and compare, isnt it?

Anyway, this isnt an argument, its a healthy discussion... But it just doesn't make any sense anymore, since you haven't even driven what youre comparing. You should give the Indian ones a comparison, you will be amazed. And lastly, no, fun is not about cutting sharp corners, not to me.

Ive been scratching my head on this whole 'fun and feel', what does fun driving mean to you? I tried to ask others, but no body bothered to answer! Do we have a standard definition or is it an illusion of perspective?

[pach]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

0-1000 Elantra beats Cruze..

0-1000.. Are you serious or is this a typo?

Originally Posted by zen kobane

Ive been scratching my head on this whole 'fun and feel', what does fun driving mean to you? I tried to ask others, but no body bothered to answer! Do we have a standard definition or is it an illusion of perspective?

Previously you mentioned that you had Subaru and Polo GTI while comparing with Laura. Can you please elaborate how you felt they are better than laura/jetta. Request you to apply same parameters between jetta / cruze and elantra in this discussion.

[Adit]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

So instead, you spend 17L and compromise on style, safety, quality, comfort, efficiency, A.S.S. and luxury?

Style: That's a very subjective comment. By no means Cruze looks outdated / old etc...
Build Quality: Let's not even compare Elantra (Korea) to Cruze (US) in terms of its built. Cruze is much more sturdy / stable at speeds beyond 100kmph than Elantra. Though I feel Germans are the best in this Segment. So hats-off to Jetta for that.
Steering Precision: Elantra's "Steering feels too light and vague" as per experts
Interior Quality: The Cruze is plushed with Black leather seats / well stitched. The Central Console looks fully loaded the plastics better. Agreed that some people like Beige / Grey combination of Elantra.
Comfort: Cruze rear is relatively cramped up... Agreed... But who is going to sit behind...
Efficiency: With 1.6L in Elantra (smaller engine / less bhp) - the FE numbers "Ought to be" better than the Cruze. But, Hyundai's FE is absolutely pathetic. I had my Santro which used to give 10-11kmpl in City compared to ARAI's claim of 22 kmpl. So, the Hyundai's FE is always a SCAM. Cruze on the other hand gives FE of 10-11kmpl in City and 13-14kmpl on highway, which is way too good for fully loaded 2.0L engine with 163 bhp under its hood. No comparison between the Cruze and Elantra in terms of driving pleasure.
A.S.S: Hyundai is there in the market much before Chevrolet. However, I have not heard any bad reviews of Chevrolet either. In fact, one of the team-bhpian got his brand new Cruze replaced within 2-3 days of delivery when he complained about issues. Dont know, if Hyundai would ever do that. Korean's understand the market and they know that "You give fancy features, compromise on steering precision, ride quality, suspension", but still it will work in this market. They exactly know how to wooo customers by throwing some fancy gooodiesss and compromising on more important stuff. At 140 kmph (if ever u feel like venturing out occassionally - all these features will not help to save your life)
Luxury: Fancy seat ventilation, Dual Zone Climate Control and a "button for almost everything" feature... If thats your definition of luxury than yes Elantra is more luxurious...

[sunny310c]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

Comfort For Driver

- Ventilated Seats
- Dual Zone Climate Control
- Reverse Camera

Comfort For Back seat

- Audio Controls
- Bucket seats
- Rear AC vent

Style - Though looks are subjective to taste, but Cruze is definitely a more outdated design compared to Elantra.
Comfort - I felt Elantra's bucket seats were way more comfortable than Cruze's, and the rear leg room was way better too.
Quality - Elantra definitely looks more refined and sophisticated in terms of evolution in auto standards and finishing, compared to an overpriced American or a German car. In today's competitive environment, I don't see its justified to charge such bomb prices for spare parts in the name of quality. Why should the customer pay if they cant localize products? If Koreans and Japanese can, why cant the others too? I take this as arrogance and not at all in the favor of the customer. The market has matured, and the ones who understand that, will evolve with it. Koreans just happen to understand this before rest of them, that's it.
Efficiency - Im sure Elantra burns less in more, due to smaller engine

Oh and lets not forget the lighter Silica wheels, Solar Glass and hill assist


I'm sure if you're paying 17L for a car, you would want some bit of luxury, right? Also, if we go by road tests, Cruze's power is only on paper, and seems quite underpowered when actually tested. It surely doesn't feel like 166 bhp in real world test.

Comfort For Driver

- Ventilated Seats - Agree with this, a very good feature to have.
- Dual Zone Climate Control - Not sure how effective this is, and to be honest, is not really a big miss
- Reverse Camera - Important but can be added later.

Comfort For Back seat - The Cruze isn't really a back seat car now is it?

Style - Like you quite rightly mentioned, looks are subjective to taste and we really can't compare the two cars on looks as the design language is quite different for both. The Elantra is graceful, elegant and beautiful. The Cruze is muscular, sporty and tough looking.

Comfort - Didn't really feel one was more comfortable than the other, not in the driver's seat at least. The rear seat, though, felt better in the Elantra.

Quality - Its been a while since I test drove both but I didn't really feel much difference in the interior quality or finish in the two. Maybe I didn't look closely but my wife did and she said she didn't feel the Elantra was that much better from the inside at least. I agree about everything else you said about spare parts etc.

Efficiency - Not really what you are looking for from a 2L diesel rocket .

End of the day, the Elantra offers a lot of bells and whistles that cars, even a segment above don't offer and that is its USP. The Cruze's USP is that motor under the hood. The way I see it, I can spend some money and get some of the bells and whistles on the Cruze, but I can't get the Cruze's engine in the Elantra. Having said that, I haven't quite made up my mind yet .

[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by pach

0-1000.. Are you serious or is this a typo?



Previously you mentioned that you had Subaru and Polo GTI while comparing with Laura. Can you please elaborate how you felt they are better than laura/jetta. Request you to apply same parameters between jetta / cruze and elantra in this discussion.

Nope not a typo, 0-1000 meters...

And no, that wasn't me. I only compared to Laura and Cruze.

[cars_crazy]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

There are many people who pay 20L for a Jetta and there are also many people who pay 16L for a Laura petrol. Both these cars are short on features but offer the best engines and drive experience. I would rather pay 20L for something that gives me driving pleasure than pay for one with a lack luster engine and mediocre drive experience.

@Vid: If that is your priority, am sure you are more than justified in going for it. I think what Zen Kobane looks for is not outright driving pleasure alone. For his kind of requirement, which is more a balanced one, than tilt towards being a drivers car, his choice on the Hyundai is well justified. I drove the Elantra too. Both the petrol and diesel transmissions. Yes they are not quick off the blocks like the Laura TSI or the Jetta TDI. True the Elantra also does not have laser welding done to ensure the finest of quality or the tank like build that's evident in the Skoda or VW. But I can say that she was not bad by any yardstick. For Indian driving conditions and based on the fact that India has more people conscious about VFM than driving enthusiasts, brand conscious people and who seek perfection alone, we have to agree that Hyundai is a jack of many trades, but master of none.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Adit

Steering Precision: Elantra's "Steering feels too light and vague" as per experts

Its not what the experts feel as its you who is gonna drive the car and not the experts for you. I think it is very individual choice how the steering feels. Some like it heavy and some like it light.

Comfort: Cruze rear is relatively cramped up... Agreed... But who is going to sit behind...

what about family/parents/children/friends/relatives? Their comfort should not matter?

At 140 kmph (if ever u feel like venturing out occassionally - all these features will not help to save your life)

I am not even sure what in the world can save you if you are involved in an accident at 140 kmph.

I think its quite not right to think of everything in just white or black. Driving is lot about the driver as well. There are many in India who drive these (scary Hyundais as you say) regularly on highways at good enough speeds. Frankly the scary part is quite overrated on this forum.

[cars_crazy]

Originally Posted by pach

Previously you mentioned that you had Subaru and Polo GTI while comparing with Laura. Can you please elaborate how you felt they are better than laura/jetta. Request you to apply same parameters between jetta / cruze and elantra in this discussion.

@Pach: that was me who made the comment; and if you read that post again, you may understand better as to what I was trying to say. Or if you have driven them yourself, you will know what I meant.

The Subaru or the Golf GTI were made for sheer exhilarating driving pleasure. It would be unfair to compare them to Laura / Jetta (in the Oz market) and say that the latter are not handling like the former. Similarly, for Indian market, the Laura and Jetta are do offer a better driving experience, bringing with them their European engineering and quality. It is not fair to compare the Elantra which is more towards offering value for money for a person with a balanced requirement. Just because they happen to be in the similar price bracket, we cannot come to a conclusion that European cars are a better buy.

For some people, being pampered in the car is more a priority than being able to race 0-100-0. Being able to have a hassle free ownership experience and a great A.S.S is more important than resale value or brand image. I am one of them. If you compare the new Jetta to the old one, I'd say the old one had more goodies with it than the new one. Not even single zone climate control in the new one, did not appeal to me. for 23L, I as a consumer wanted a bit more in the car than just "german engineering" or brand value. If you talk to skoda owners, you may find many having had to put up with poor after sales service. These are not things some of us want.

To each, their own. If Hyundai has manufactured the Elantra in a particular way, am sure it is based on some market research. They just want to appeal to that market segment which thought VFM is what matters. And yes, flogging Elantra for terrible handling is a bit overrated. If you do drive it, responsibly, you will find that it handles well enough. Not as good as a Jetta or Laura, but not as bad or jittery too.

[nilambuj]

Man I am loving this debate!!!

Did anyone talk of Corolla (petrol)- dual VVTI engine? Other than the styling which is outdated for some (to me it still feels OK) & a few "bells and whistles" (and by the way Elantra doesn't have a DVD touch-screen system & MID), I feel Corolla (again petrol!!!) is a very decent buy.
The backseat comfort- unmatchable in the segment.
The after sales- everytime I visit DSK toyota in Pune, they make me feel like a king.

What else does one want?

[zen kobane]

Alright, all that was vivid!

@Adit - Are you implying that Elantra's 6 airbags, ESP, ABS w/ EBD, VSM, speed and impact sensing door, would not increase the chances of surviving at 140 km/h compared to Cruze's 2 Airbags and ABS only safety features?

This is where the Indian markets gets me worried. A similar pattern was noticed with Duster too, where the company is not even selling airbags equipped petrol version! This brings me to my original point, I find Hyundai has matured as a company and understands its priorities rather than over promising or creating a functionless value in a product.

Also, lets not say Koreans do this for this market only, if you see the GLOBAL SALES of Elantra, you will notice the revolution is happening everywhere, all the consumers are waking up to this realization that its not just about power or brand, its also about function and practicality.
'Sheer driving' pleasure... Ive been asking everyone to explain what it means!!! Like I explained, it means comfort to me, what is your definition? Please guys, lets be reasonable Also, what does luxury mean to you if not the best in its class features?

@sunny310c - So Cruze isnt a back seat car? Why am I noticing this pattern around here that people actually buy Cruze thinking its a 2 seater, sports car?!

You can get those bells and whistles, but if you end up spending so much money getting aftermarket safety kits (dont even know if that works) im sure you can then increase your budget to the next segment! And same goes with Elantra, if one needs to get the engine, they can just move one segment up, to an Accord, Superb or Sonata.

0-100 - I think everyone ignored my earlier mention, the difference between Elantra and Cruze isnt really more than .50 secs... So what makes Cruze so powerful if it only matches 1.6 of Elantra? Probably its the weight which balances it out and it ends up performing low? Weight to power ratio?

Lets just try to be mutually honest. Theres nothing hidden about any of the cars here so lets just appreciate which is best for you, me, him or any individual. For me, I want a car which brings peace of mind to my mind, and Jetta, Laura or Cruze failed to do that, bottom line.

[pach]

Originally Posted by cars_crazy

@Pach: that was me who made the comment; and if you read that post again.

I read the post again and the post only talks about handling. I am asking you to use same parameter between jetta and elantra. I have not driven Elantra and hence wanted to know.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by joslicx

I am not even sure what in the world can save you if you are involved in an accident at 140 kmph.

The point is - which car is more capable of avoiding an accident at 140kmph.

Originally Posted by zen kobane

@Adit - Are you implying that Elantra's 6 airbags, ESP, ABS w/ EBD, VSM, speed and impact sensing door, would not increase the chances of surviving at 140 km/h compared to Cruze's 2 Airbags and ABS only safety features?

Well, if the accident occurs at 140kmph, most likely it's over.
At such speeds, you need to avoid an accident to have a better chance of survival. You need a steering that obeys you precisely and a car that goes where you point it to.

Nobody here is underplaying the importance of airbags and ABS, etc. I am not sure why you are underplaying the importance of sharp steering and precisely tuned suspension.

[RemingtonSteele]

^^ point blank and candid views -Thank you ZK

All the said are very much valid points.
I often see people expressing with prejudiced mindset than opening eyes and looking at the real stuff being offered.

[cars_crazy]

Originally Posted by pach

I read the post again and the post only talks about handling. I am asking you to use same parameter between jetta and elantra. I have not driven Elantra and hence wanted to know.

OK mate. Hopefully this next post of mine gave you what you wanted. Else pm me and we can chat offline.

[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Nobody here is underplaying the importance of airbags and ABS, etc. I am not sure why you are underplaying the importance of sharp steering and precisely tuned suspension.

I might be mistaken, but I never underplayed sharp steering at 140! I only stated a point that if you talk about driving at 140 km/h then the dynamics of discussion change. VSM & ESP isnt equally important? That makes no sense to me, at 140 km/h if you make a quick cut you will probably end up into trouble but VSM, ESM & EBD gives you extra support to tackle that situation. The control that human error fails to bring to an emergency situation, the on-board computers takes care of it, to an extent.

And I doubt Elantra's steering isnt sharp. Just because it lacks feedback doesn't make it risky. For me, that's a more controllable steering, which is light, chunky and quick to respond.

But again, the point of the sharp steering was brought in to explain the 'driving pleasure', not by me but the ones who prefer Cruze's steering to Elantra. I still dont see the correlation between driving pleasure and safety at 140 km/h. And I am still open to understand what exactly 'Fun driving and driving pleasure' means.

P.S. Why is Chevrolet selling Cruze in India without ESP? When that comes standard in USA? From the logic of some members on this forum - does that signify Chevrolet knows Indians don't care about safety and just go with whats popular and big?