[speedsatya]

Originally Posted by amalji

Now, a few questions to the Amaze customers here.

1. Did any of the owners here ever replaced the Amaze brake pads ? If so, at what odometer reading ?
2. The service center guys claim that the brake pad life issue is due to the driver not getting used to the high low end torque combined with the "rush ahead" mannerism of the Amaze as soon as you release the clutch on second gear. This causes the driver to use more brakes, if you don't shift and use clutch intelligently. Since, the people who have used this vehicle are careful drivers, I couldn't think of any other logical reasoning myself as well. Any similar experiences here ?

Also, did a comparison of the service cost of my Etios' 20,000 kms service. Pasting it here.


Attachment 1279406

My front brake pads were changed at 20 K Kms .The service manager said most cars come for replacement below 15 k Kms . Mine still had some life left in them , but I asked for a change

Overall 20 K kms service came to about 7 k INR including the brake pad replacement .

Now its done 25 k kms and I feel a juddering feel when braking at high speeds , so much that you can even feel the RHS front door shaking
Also , slotting into reverse gear has been a problem at times along with vibrations ( similar to a weak clutch in MUL cars ).
My front seat ( driver seat) has a missing nut on the LHS base and always shakes when going over bad roads or over speedbreakers . Will get this repaired as well .
Vibrating CRVM has never been sorted out till now . It vibrates so much between 1500 to 2200 rpm in the top gear , that its diffcult to view the mirror at times



I also do a paid check up every 5 K kms . They top up the oil levels , check pads and also do a full body wash , all of 1K INR

[amalji]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Overall 20 K kms service came to about 7 k INR including the brake pad replacement .

There is a huge discrepency here when I compare it with my cousin's 20k bill. Could you please post the split-up ? If I just add up the service cost and brake pad cost, it comes to 11,000 odd.

[speedsatya]

Originally Posted by amalji

There is a huge discrepency here when I compare it with my cousin's 20k bill. Could you please post the split-up ? If I just add up the service cost and brake pad cost, it comes to 11,000 odd.

I dont have the bill with me . I will be in Mangalore tomorrow , will try and get the details .

[saket77]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

My front brake pads were changed at 20 K Kms .The service manager said most cars come for replacement below 15 k Kms . Mine still had some life left in them , but I asked for a change

Satya, isn't 20K kms for brake pads a little too early. I know that it is more about braking than mileage on the odo, but still 15K (as stated by Honda ASC) & 20k....are they not wearing too soon?

[speedsatya]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Now its done 25 k kms and I feel a juddering feel when braking at high speeds , so much that you can even feel the RHS front door shaking
Also , slotting into reverse gear has been a problem at times along with vibrations ( similar to a weak clutch in MUL cars ).
My front seat ( driver seat) has a missing nut on the LHS base and always shakes when going over bad roads or over speedbreakers . Will get this repaired as well .
Vibrating CRVM has never been sorted out till now . It vibrates so much between 1500 to 2200 rpm in the top gear , that its diffcult to view the mirror at times

Called up Pennisular Honda to fix an appointment for Saturday .

It seems , the front seat problem has been seen in other cars also !! Its not a nut / bolt issue , but the seat slide rails . Clear case of Honda not having done sufficient testing . Vibrating A pillars , vibrating dashboard, vibrating CRVMs, all kinds of creaking sounds ( seats , underbody, handbrakes ,...), brake pads wearing out at less than 10 K kms and now a seat slidiing rail !!! My 14 year old zen still hasnt had any of these issues .


On the juddering feeling , I was told the pads need skimming

The vibratings when de-clutching will have to be checked

Originally Posted by amalji

There is a huge discrepency here when I compare it with my cousin's 20k bill. Could you please post the split-up ? If I just add up the service cost and brake pad cost, it comes to 11,000 odd.

Originally Posted by saket77

Satya, isn't 20K kms for brake pads a little too early. I know that it is more about braking than mileage on the odo, but still 15K (as stated by Honda ASC) & 20k....are they not wearing too soon?

Cars have had replacements as early as 10K kms . Service manager says 20-22K kms is what Honda recommends . Today , he was saying its 35 K kms for the clutch ( 7K INR )

So , whatever you save on economy , will get blown up in maintainence

[amalji]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

I dont have the bill with me . I will be in Mangalore tomorrow , will try and get the details .

Thanks a ton. Eagerly waiting for it. The service center people can send you a pdf copy, if you just call them. I have it for all my bills till now.

Originally Posted by saket77

Satya, isn't 20K kms for brake pads a little too early. I know that it is more about braking than mileage on the odo, but still 15K (as stated by Honda ASC) & 20k....are they not wearing too soon?

Yes, it's wearing too soon. But, at the same time this is not an Amaze only phenomenon. Certain cars have this issue. Esteem, Corolla Altis, Cruze are all I can think for now. If we find the root of the issue, we should be able to find a work around as well.

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Called up Pennisular Honda to fix an appointment for Saturday .

It seems , the front seat problem has been seen in other cars also !! Its not a nut / bolt issue , but the seat slide rails . Clear case of Honda not having done sufficient testing .

I've seen similar issues on certain Lineas as well. It has to be a design issue. But, Honda should take care of all this by warranty.

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Vibrating A pillars , vibrating dashboard, vibrating CRVMs, all kinds of creaking sounds ( seats , underbody, handbrakes ,...), brake pads wearing out at less than 10 K kms and now a seat slidiing rail !!! My 14 year old zen still hasnt had any of these issues .

With a new car, certain teething issues can be expected like this. As long as Honda respects the warranty and brings in a permanent fix, it cannot be said as bad.

Originally Posted by speedsatya

On the juddering feeling , I was told the pads need skimming
The vibratings when de-clutching will have to be checked

This can happen however good the car is. I have seen it happen on very premium cars as well. Maybe, with more power and harder braking, this is always a possibility. Again, it's easily fixable as well.

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Cars have had replacements as early as 10K kms . Service manager says 20-22K kms is what Honda recommends . Today , he was saying its 35 K kms for the clutch ( 7K INR )

This 35k clutchpad replacement theory is hard to digest. I don't think, any manufacturer would ever say that Clutch will last only for certain number of KMs. Never in my life have I replaced a clutch pad for any of the vehicles that I used till now.

And that includes

Zen - 1,25,000 kms
Esteem - 1,10,000 kms
Etios Diesel - 54,000 kms

But, one small concern is the ultra light nature of the Amaze clutch.
Harder clutch = higher torque capacity
Higher torque vehicle ==> Torque capacity of the clutch should be on the higher side or clutch will take premature wear.

In the case of Amaze, the 200 Nm torque combined with the ultra light clutch can raise questions about how it is achieved. Either, you can do it using better technology, or by compromising on the torque capacity of the clutch or a combination of both.

Originally Posted by speedsatya

So , whatever you save on economy , will get blown up in maintainence

I hope, Honda addresses these teething issues ( especially the brake pad issue and forcing AC vent cleaning on the customer ) and then the minor glitches like rattles asap.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by amalji

In Nippon Toyota, Kochi I've a completely different experience.

Nippon Toyota maybe an exception. Here in Bangalore they try to push a lot of addons. Synthetic oil they also told me not to bother but 3M stuff or parts changes are something they try to push a lot.

My Altis is on it's 3rd set of brake pads for the rear. Average is 20K kms for brake pads.

Last time they told me it needs changing I said no till i see the pads. The guy told me pads were worn and it was normal wear and tear. I said let me see it first. I went there the next day and found that from the 4 pads, only one pad was worn out from only one edge. The remaining 3 pads had more than 50% life. When I questioned him as to how this is possible he was clueless. Basically no diagnosis from their side. It could have been a stuck caliper which means the new set would have also got worn out prematurely.

Finally they said they will investigate and kept the car for another day. Got a call saying the earlier single pad was not fixed properly by them. I told them then why should I pay for a new set if it was your fault. They said 20K kms they cant replace FoC. Gave up and got them replaced on my cost.

Mind you a set of pads for the rear cost 9K so they aren't cheap and the car has been through 2 sets already.

But, again my point is why would Honda make it a must-do activity after putting the blame on lack of AC filter. This should have been strictly optional considering the amount being spent on it. And they should have recommended him to buy an AC filter as well.

Toyota told my colleague that his Innova clutch needs changing and is normal wear. Have you heard of Innova clutch going at 50K kms? He is not even a bad driver. He was quite upset as the 50K kms bill was 33,000 bucks. I asked him to show me the bill and was shocked at what all was charged. They told him it's compulsory for all this.

What I'm trying to say is whether Honda or Toyota, they will try their best to fleece you if they know you don't have the knowledge.

Engine oil additive which is 700-800 bucks is marketed as compulsory by Hyundai to improve pickup and engine life. Many people actually add this and wonder why service bills are high.

The Toyota's service is definitely on the lower side. The biggest difference being 10K service interval and the diesel filter change which is not there in Toyota. Honda's have never been cheap to maintain just that they are lower than the germans. Toyota is known for low maintenance costs, the reason why Etios is preferred as taxi and the reason why people buy a boring Altis.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Nippon Toyota maybe an exception. Here in Bangalore they try to push a lot of addons. Synthetic oil they also told me not to bother but 3M stuff or parts changes are something they try to push a lot.

Yeah, Nippon is really good. Never got an unethical treatment from them. And it's not just me. Many of my friends and relatives are delighted at the ultra low maintenance costs in here. They rarely push something on the customer forcefully. In fact, it's becoming more and more comparable to my favorite Maruti Service Masters in Kerala - Autoteam.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

My Altis is on it's 3rd set of brake pads for the rear. Average is 20K kms for brake pads.

Last time they told me it needs changing I said no till i see the pads. The guy told me pads were worn and it was normal wear and tear. I said let me see it first. I went there the next day and found that from the 4 pads, only one pad was worn out from only one edge. The remaining 3 pads had more than 50% life. When I questioned him as to how this is possible he was clueless. Basically no diagnosis from their side. It could have been a stuck caliper which means the new set would have also got worn out prematurely.

Finally they said they will investigate and kept the car for another day. Got a call saying the earlier single pad was not fixed properly by them. I told them then why should I pay for a new set if it was your fault. They said 20K kms they cant replace FoC. Gave up and got them replaced on my cost.

Toyota told my colleague that his Innova clutch needs changing and is normal wear. Have you heard of Innova clutch going at 50K kms? He is not even a bad driver. He was quite upset as the 50K kms bill was 33,000 bucks. I asked him to show me the bill and was shocked at what all was charged. They told him it's compulsory for all this.

This is pure unethical. Nothing more to say here. And I'm reasonably sure that any good service center would have owned up the responsibility, apologized and replaced it free of charge. Still remember one instance when I gave the car ( Esteem ) for service in Autoteam. They accidentally replaced my engine oil ( synthetic ) with mineral oil thinking that it should be replaced every 5,000 kms. As soon as I complained there was no questions asked. They just drained the mineral oil, and filled up with fresh synthetic oil. I told, I'll pay 50% since, I have run 5,000 kms with the old oil. But, they didn't even take that.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Mind you a set of pads for the rear cost 9K so they aren't cheap and the car has been through 2 sets already.

Yeah, I know. And I guess, it's the same for all cars in that segment, right ? ie, 20,000 kms replacement interval and an astronomical cost of 17,000 for replacing all 4 brake pads. Any idea as to why the brake pads of the Altis is double as costly as the old Corolla or even the Prius ? Do they use ceramic ?

Originally Posted by Vid6639

What I'm trying to say is whether Honda or Toyota, they will try their best to fleece you if they know you don't have the knowledge.

At least in Kerala, we notice a trend. Hyundai undoubtedly is the most notorious here. This is regardless of the dealerships. They don't even ask for permission before doing completely useless works. Then there are certain dealer workshops of Maruti, Honda. Ford and Toyota rarely pushes such things here. It's the same case with every dealerships. In the case of Toyota, both Nippon ( South Kerala ) and Amana ( North Kerala ) are awesome.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The Toyota's service is definitely on the lower side. The biggest difference being 10K service interval and the diesel filter change which is not there in Toyota. Honda's have never been cheap to maintain just that they are lower than the germans. Toyota is known for low maintenance costs, the reason why Etios is preferred as taxi and the reason why people buy a boring Altis.

The brake pad replacement cost is the only spoiler on the Altis. I wonder what was wrong with the old Corolla and Prius brake pads to substitute it with brake pads double the cost! :(
PS: The new Altis do not look boring for me.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by amalji

Yeah, I know. And I guess, it's the same for all cars in that segment, right ? ie, 20,000 kms replacement interval and an astronomical cost of 17,000 for replacing all 4 brake pads. Any idea as to why the brake pads of the Altis is double as costly as the old Corolla or even the Prius ? Do they use ceramic ?

The brake pad replacement cost is the only spoiler on the Altis. I wonder what was wrong with the old Corolla and Prius brake pads to substitute it with brake pads double the cost! :(
PS: The new Altis do not look boring for me.

Not for all cars in this segment , our first gen Toyota Corolla's brake pads gave up at 22k KMs , even today they use poor brake pads and i've seen a number of corollas on road with that metal sound coming from brakes (the sound of brake pads completely worn out) , our Civic's brake pads lasted 36k Kms (we sold the car after that but the brake pads were still good) , we got the front and rear brake pads of our Cruze replaced at 40 and 50k KMs respectively.

[spkingsley]

Originally Posted by nijelj

My friend who has a diesel amaze, faced a problem today. While in traffic his MIL came on. The accelerator wasn't responding and he had switch on/off his ignition to regain some driveability.

In neutral, the rpm wasn't rising over 2000. but while driving the rpm was able to reach 3000+. Has anyone faced a similar issue ? They will come to check the vehicle tomorrow. No he does not have an OBD scanner

Engine is in limp home mode due to some electronic issue in engine controls

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by nijelj

My friend who has a diesel amaze, faced a problem today. While in traffic his MIL came on. The accelerator wasn't responding and he had switch on/off his ignition to regain some driveability.
In neutral, the rpm wasn't rising over 2000. but while driving the rpm was able to reach 3000+. Has anyone faced a similar issue ? They will come to check the vehicle tomorrow. No he does not have an OBD scanner

Get the MIL issue checked. Your other issue of rpm not going above 2,000 rpm is not an issue. Honda have this as a feature to prevent clutch wear. The engine in neutral will not rev above 2,000 rpm.

[rsarunkumar]

Got myself Amaze S iDTEC, my first experience with a diesel engine!
Completed 1000 km. Felt the gears a little harder than the petrol ones I've driven so far (Getz Prime). Otherwise, have enjoyed the drives so far, mostly within Bangalore.
Getting about 17 kmpl. Is it normal to get this kind of mileage before the service? Will the mileage increase after the service? I've exposed the car to various kinds of drives - traffic - bumper to bumper to NICE road to some Ghat roads. Insights please!

[Icarus_Deft]

Originally Posted by rsarunkumar

Got myself Amaze S iDTEC, my first experience with a diesel engine!

Completed 1000 km. Felt the gears a little harder than the petrol ones I've driven so far (Getz Prime). Otherwise, have enjoyed the drives so far, mostly within Bangalore.

Getting about 17 kmpl. Is it normal to get this kind of mileage before the service? Will the mileage increase after the service? I've exposed the car to various kinds of drives - traffic - bumper to bumper to NICE road to some Ghat roads. Insights please!

Congratulations on the new acquisition. The mileage with city highway mix ranges between 17-19. On my Mum Del drive it gave 21 kmpl. But brace for 17 as avg.


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP App!

[rsarunkumar]

Originally Posted by Icarus_Deft

The mileage with city highway mix ranges between 17-19.

You are right. Though I try to drive in ECO mode as much as possible, this is the best I've been able to achieve so far.

Also, got the 1000 km service done today (at 1200 km odo). The service engineer was clearly satisfied when I said I'm getting 17kmpl.

I suppose the ARAI test conditions and criteria should be realistic to be taken on face value. Else, it will be (must have already become) just another number.

[andydude]

Originally Posted by rsarunkumar

You are right. Though I try to drive in ECO mode as much as possible, this is the best I've been able to achieve so far.



Also, got the 1000 km service done today (at 1200 km odo). The service engineer was clearly satisfied when I said I'm getting 17kmpl.



I suppose the ARAI test conditions and criteria should be realistic to be taken on face value. Else, it will be (must have already become) just another number.

I have noticed that the ARAI mileage figures (or close to it) is achievable on a good highway drive. Mileage while Driving in city traffic would be about 20-25% lower.