[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I feel that the rural market will still go for the DZire going by the availability of service centers in remote villages of India. Honda presence is miniscule in comparison. The urban market will possibly choose the Honda over the Maruti Suzuki.

Thanks a lot Kiran. 8,93,692/- OTR Pune is a ok price I think. And you are probably right that the urban market might choose the Amaze over the DZire, but just might. I personally would wait for 6-8 months before the initial hype settles down, and first set of issues/niggles/delivery delayes are fixed by Honda.

By the way, 7000/- handling charges are too much. Did you guys talk to the Honda SA regarding this? Do they have anything to say about this?

[vivekn83]

Amaz(e)ing pricing for entry and mid variants but a premium of almost a lakh for both its top ends (Petrol and diesel) is a little surprising.
In addition, it would have been sweeter to have ABS on the Petrol mid variant 'S', as people looking forward for the safety aspects (in their petrol trim) would be gutted by this omission.

This is going to be an interesting time for all the chief competitors like; MSIL, Tata, Chevy and Toyota.
And I won't be surprised to see Maruti offer discounts on Swift and Dzire.
It is always good to kill monopoly, Great times if you are a car buyer!

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

I personally would wait for 6-8 months before the initial hype settles down, and first set of issues/niggles/delivery delayes are fixed by Honda.

I haven't yet seen too much of niggles in a brand new Honda. A waiting for 6-8 months used to make sense for less reliable car manufacturers.

By the way, 7000/- handling charges are too much. Did you guys talk to the Honda SA regarding this? Do they have anything to say about this?

That's a straight discount figure which you could push for. I couldn't find one Sales advisor who was free yesterday. They launched the car at 4:00 pm and by 6:30 pm when I got there it was packed completely. Some people were already taking delivery. Test drives are available but I'll choose an easier day once the crowds reduce.

[vkochar]

Originally Posted by nik_kapur

It is all upwards for Honda from now on. Wait till the next gen city is here in 2014 in a diesel avatar. Here is a rendering i found at www.headlightmag.com.

That looks smoking hot. This will propel Honda back into the #1 slot in its class.
Currently the Hyundai verna rules that BUT if this looker makes it to Indian shores soon by next year and is launched in a but obvious diesel engine it will change everything.

The game has just begun exciting in the auto industry. The customer is king at the moment and companies will have to squeeze their margins to get sales.

I have a gut feeling that the Honda Amaze is going to spoil the party not only for Dezire but also for bigger cars specially the verna and the vento / rapid of course.

Wait and see these companies drop their prices by a minimum of 50k or so. VW is already raining various types of schemes.

The ford ecosport team must be having a nightmare in terms of pricing.

Everything is corelated in the Indian market.

[ssbshankar]

Originally Posted by shabash

I do not think OTR prices will be 10.3L for the VX i-Dtec. It will be more in the range of 9.5L, depending on the variations in prices between Ex-showroom Delhi and Ex-Showroom Bangalore (which I think will be again about 15 K - as the DZire ZDI ex-showroom price variation between Delhi and Bangalore as about 13K). This coupled with the extra warranty of 15K (which is 5K more than DZire), will take the price to about 9.5-ish. So from what I feel this is what it will look like.

Ex showroom price - 7.75L
Road Tax - 1.2L (@ 15.5%)
Insurance - 0.25L
Extended warranty - 0.15L
Other incidentals + Basic Accessories - 0.15L
-----------------------------------------------
Total OTR cost in Bangalore - 9.5L
-----------------------------------------------

Disclaimer - I have used Bimal Maruti site to arrive at the cost headings.

Yes, I checked with Honda website for Bangalore ex-showroom pricing.

City : BANGALORE
1.2 E MT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 509100

1.2 S MT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 572800

1.2 EX MT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 534600

1.2 S AT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 672300

1.2 VX MT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 669600

1.2 VX AT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 764100

1.5 E MT (i-DTEC) Diesel : Rs. 620500

1.5 EX MT (i-DTEC) Diesel : Rs. 645080

1.5 S MT (i-DTEC) Diesel : Rs. 680300

1.5 VX MT (i-DTEC) Diesel : Rs. 773500

So, with your calculations, the OTR price for VX MT i-DTEC would be around 9.5L then.

Did anybody get official OTR from any dealers in Bangalore?

[aniketi]

Not very great pricing IMHO. Pricing is ok only. If they want to beat Dzire, they should have priced it lower than it. Also it has some less features if you compare the top end models. Also in interiors department, Dzire is winner. Maruti has best A.S.S. which Honda don't. Also i guess Honda's timing is not that great. Market is going south only. I don't think it will improve in near future. People are not going only after diesels now after the Government's decision of increasing the diesel prices. Sales of other diesel vehicles like Swift & Ertiga confirms that.

In India, common "Mango Man (Aam Admi)" is very comfortable with Maruti. They look Honda as a premium & expensive brand. So i don't think lots of rush for Amaze. Lets see how market reacts. I don't think it will give tough time to Dzire, but lets wait & see.

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Pune prices (Ex-showroom):

Maruti DZire ZDi: 7,61,623/-

Honda Amaze iDtec VX: 7,78,907/-

Actually i've the prices from "Crystal Honda" and they are different:
1. Amaze Vx - Ex.Shw : 7,86,494- OTR : 8,93,692/- (incl handling charges 7k).

Can the prices be different from dealer to dealer? +1 to the fact that even the Amaze Vx (like city) leaves you feeling short changed for features.

Crystal honda is also offering a "Crystal essential edition" optional pack for 50,700/- that contains:
1. 3M Paint protection
2. 3M Under body anti-rust
3. FR film 3M CR70 (Inspite of the SC ban )
4. Side/back film 3M SP70
5. Matting set black
6. Reverse Sensor Led
7. Xenon HID Kit
8. Seat cover PU leather
9. Blue tooth hands free

Exterior finish is amaze-ing! The car in that maroon and white shade looks bigger than it actually is and is shiny new like a toy. The rear is so well integrated and it looks the best from rear. The drive is noisy for sure. Definitely noisier and shakier (on start up at least) than the Dzire.

I think Amaze interiors are a notch down compared to the Dzire. The car itself maybe spacious but the interiors are a big let down, exactly what the review said. The plastics are just barely ok, the rear visibility another big big issue. You have to try reversing the car to understand it. I think its a result of Honda wanting to integrate the boot neatly and its ended up sitting way higher at around your shoulder line.

The Dzire may have a few hundreds taken off its sales but i doubt there will be a serious dent. Plus i'm assuming MSIL will have prepared for competition so expect "limited editions", immediate delivery & courteous staff. Only if the Amaze does manage to set sales charts on fire.

[spinfreak]

Checked out the Amaze in i-DTEC avatar at Ring Road Honda in Peeragarhi. No autobox TD yet. And compared it with the DZire at Maruti next door as well.

Here is my attempt at a neutral comparison & first impressions :

+ It is just awesome in terms of Space. I compared the rear space in Amaze and City thrice side by side, after pushing back front seats fully - AMAZE WAS MORE OR LESS EQUAL TO ITS ELDER SIBLING. DZire was not even close on the rear seat space, let alone compete with Amaze.

+ Headroom in Amaze (front & rear) is at least thrice that available in DZire, and I'm 5'10". Turbanated persons will feel at home in this car, but definitely not in DZire.

+ Inside, the Amaze feels just like the City in terms of quality, fit & colours of the interiors. The steering wheel and driving position is spot on & sweet, as though the car was made for me.

- The dashboard feels really spartan in terms of gizmos & equipment. In a car costing >8 lacs OTR, DZire ZDi feels more premium inside from the the front seats, than the Amaze VX i-DTEC. Wooden inserts, Auto Climate Control AC, makes DZire feel plush sitting in the front seats.


+ That said, the premium-ness in the back seat is definitely more in the Amaze.

+ Rear Headrests are SPOT ON like City, and DZire inspite of having adjustable headrests can not provide the same comfort.

+ Seat Cushioning is really thicker and softer in Amaze than DZire. Amaze feels like a much more premium car in the back seat.

+ Armrests had cupholders in Amaze, DZire lacked cupholders.

- DZire armrest did not touch the seat and were firmer than Amaze. Amaze armrest felt a little flimsy.

+ The rear floor center tunnel was flat and narrow in the Amaze, DZire had an ugly plastic cup holder trim with taller and wider tunnel. The rear seat is the Place To Be in an Amaze!

+ Boot space is huge for a car its length. Leave DZire, heck it's more than Chevy SAIL which is longer than 4m! Boot space is illuminated with scuff protectors factory-installed (NICE!)

+ The exteriors, esp in Blue & Wine Red colours, are just too classy. The car looks & feels premium! Status will come along with it automatically come what may. No other entry level sedan comes even close. In fact a lot of buyers were turning up to book Amaze and cancel their Swift hatch booking (Swift VDi i heard is as costly as Amaze EX i-DTEC).

+ Rear three-quarter looks like the current City, the side profile made me reminisce the Fluidic Verna. Definitely a looker when compared to DZire or even current City.

- Only the Front of Amaze is slightly quirky & too Brio-ish. The headlamps could've been sleeker. However it looks a wide stance car from the front. Not to say DZire is not quirky, it's just been around longer. Front Looks of DZire felt stronger in terms of Road Presence

- The rear wheel well in Amaze definitely looked as though it was designed for 15 inchers but it seems Honda focus on Fuel economy made them go for 14 inchers with 175 section! Rubber/wheel upgrade will be a de facto for those looking for even better handling. DZire top-end wheels look much more meatier.

- The i-DTEC engine starts & stops with a slight shudder. Noise is definitely lesser than DZire at start-up & idling. It's the shudder that is slightly more. I was told this is only true when the engine is 'not warmed up'. That remains to be seen. [That said, I felt the vibration was quite acceptable, after all it is a Diesel, not an i-VTEC ]

+ The Noise levels at idling, and low rpms are much QUIETER in Amaze than DZire. The noise frequency (the pitch/tone of the sound) is different so it may sound higher, but it definitely is quieter than DZire.

+ No vibrations in Amaze are felt on the Steering Wheel or Cushioned Seats at engine idling and low rpm. Compared to DZire where slight vibrations were coming through steering wheel and the firmer seats.

- Beyond 3000 Rpms, Amaze noise felt slightly more than Dzire. The point I noted is that the hum of the i-DTEC is at a higher frequency/tone (the pitch of the sound & not loudness), so it seems like the engine is screeching louder. This may be due to the fact that it is an All Aluminum engine block & head & lightweight engine.

+ Saying that, I'll mention simultaneously that I rarely needed to floor the accelerator or rev up in the Amaze. A light press is enough.

+ The torque is felt right through & through from 1200 RPM, no turbo lag, strong mid-range, and goes through to >3000 rpms without any surge or drop! AMAZING Driveability : almost similar to Duster 110 ps engine! i-DTEC is definitely better in terms of acceleration from start or in-gear. This is the new benchmark when it come to Diesel engine performance-wise. DZire engine lacked any low-end punch, but the Turbo spools up at 2000 odd RPMs, with the engine red-lining higher than the i-DTEC but Torque drops off steeply after 3800 RPMs. Definitely the more drive-able engine is the i-DTEC.

+ The gear ratios are spot on and the gearshift has a positive slot feel to it.

- The gearshift is really smooth in DZire (but slotting in 5th felt like 3rd many times). I clearly preferred the Amaze box to the DZire one. But people will like the smooth shifting Suzuki.

- Road Noise filters in more into the Amaze compared to the DZire. This seems to sound as if the Engine is noisier, but it is most definitely Tyre and Road noise. Honda needs to up it's road noise insulation package in the car, may be put in accessorized mats / door seals / wheel well sound absorption material

+ The steering is so amazing, just like Autocar review stated. The car pointed where I wanted it to, the turning effort is extremely low, yet steering feels well weighted. The feedback is excellent. DZire feels toyish to steer, and takes a wider turning circle when turning.

- DZire had an extra mute button on its steering mounted control for audio. Amaze misses it.

+ In terms of Braking, both DZire ZDi and Amaze VX i-DTEC feel at home. However I've read at many sources that LDI/VDI brakes are slightly inferior. I couldn't test that out personally.

+/- Getting in & out of the DZire was slight bit more difficult than the Amaze. However Amaze had lower seating than the DZire - something that elders/oldies with Knee trouble will like about the DZire. This dept. remains a mixed bag depending on the type of user of the vehicle. For me, Amaze low seating means my parents will have trouble getting out of the vehicle.


So for now, back to waiting for the EcoSport, because as it is my Diesel booking is due to be processed by May end. Petrol AT's are also on at least a 4 week waiting!!! The rush at the Honda showroom was Amazing, and I was feeling pity for the staff. I was there at the evening, and each one of them looked famished! (Yet happy).

I think the Amaze is a winner. I had very few dislikes like dashboard & equipment levels, low seating, but all in all, I think this car is the new de facto standard of the entry sedan segment, especially with the mid-variant pricing (variants that sell the most!)

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

1. Amaze Vx - Ex.Shw : 7,86,494- OTR : 8,93,692/- (incl handling charges 7k).
Can the prices be different from dealer to dealer? +1 to the fact that even the Amaze Vx (like city) leaves you feeling short changed for features.

Crystal honda is also offering a "Crystal essential edition" optional pack for 50,700/- that contains:
1. 3M Paint protection
2. 3M Under body anti-rust
3. FR film 3M CR70 (Inspite of the SC ban )
4. Side/back film 3M SP70
5. Matting set black
6. Reverse Sensor Led
7. Xenon HID Kit
8. Seat cover PU leather
9. Blue tooth hands free

Thanks for the info Nilesh. The first 4 items in the above list should be chucked out ASAP, if anyone is seriously thinking of going for this optional pack. I am a regular customer at 3M in Baner and the owner had specifically told me that they have stopped supporting Honda dealers in Pune for any 3M product. You can find details regarding this in the 3M Pune thread.

Instead one can negotiate for some other useful accessories in place of these 4.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by aniketi

Also i guess Honda's timing is not that great. Market is going south only. I don't think it will improve in near future. People are not going only after diesels now after the Government's decision of increasing the diesel prices. Sales of other diesel vehicles like Swift & Ertiga confirms that.

With a total monthly capacity of 10k, Honda cannot go wrong with timing because the market is going south. In fact, it would give them a breathing space on the timelines for doubling their capacity. Even if they increase to 20k per month, they would most likely be running at full capacity even in current market sentiments.

[srishiva]

I still see car makers missing the notchback design Maybe Honda can do it in addition to this just to gauge the reaction

[lapsi]

Originally Posted by zenren

Here is a variant-wise features (as per their brochure) for the additional price for the MT variants:

Good job, mate. This information will be useful for prospective buyers

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

So the Amaze is dearer by 17k than DZire ZDi, which in my opinion does not shake and stir the DZire sales by much, at least initially. I feel that the DZire ZDi variant, if compared based on feature list, is the obvious choice.

17K may not be too much for someone who is actually buying a car which costs about 9 lakhs. If the additional amount is fully financed by a 5 year loan, the cost will be about Rs. 350 per month. And for an additional Rs. 350 a month you are getting the Honda badge, the reliability associated with Honda and higher resale values too.

Honda brings a certain amount of exclusivity and it cannot be denied that Suzuki is a mass market product which is owned by every Tom, Dick and Harry.

The choice is obvious. And it goes in favour of the Honda.

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

I personally would wait for 6-8 months before the initial hype settles down, and first set of issues/niggles/delivery delays are fixed by Honda.

We are not talking about Indian manufacturers who launch their product first and then solve the niggles using the customers as guinea pigs.

Honda has waited so long to launch their diesel car since they will not release a half baked product. A Honda product will be niggle free. A poor product means loss of face and the Japanese take their reputation seriously.

Cheers!

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by lapsi

We are not talking about Indian manufacturers who launch their product first and then solve the niggles using the customers as guinea pigs.

Honda has waited so long to launch their diesel car since they will not release a half baked product. A Honda product will be niggle free. A poor product means loss of face and the Japanese take their reputation seriously.

Cheers!

Thanks for reminding.

I do agree that Honda has been excellent till date with all their product launches in terms of niggle-free experience. However, this is their first ever 1.5 liter diesel engine for India, so I would surely wait until first few batches have gone through an end-to-end scene. We all need an actual owner's report until we can say anything concrete.

[t3ofil4us]

The launch of the car IMHO will give buyers a sweet headache who will be spoiled for choice in this segment, considering the etios,verito, indigo Cs, dzireCS, SAIl sedan, etc.
Waiting for the next six months would mean we get a better/refined version with most of the issues addressed.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by spinfreak

- The i-DTEC engine starts & stops with a slight shudder. Noise is definitely lesser than DZire at start-up & idling. It's the shudder that is slightly more. I was told this is only true when the engine is 'not warmed up'. That remains to be seen. [That said, I felt the vibration was quite acceptable, after all it is a Diesel, not an i-VTEC ]

+ The Noise levels at idling, and low rpms are much QUIETER in Amaze than DZire. The noise frequency (the pitch/tone of the sound) is different so it may sound higher, but it definitely is quieter than DZire.

+ No vibrations in Amaze are felt on the Steering Wheel or Cushioned Seats at engine idling and low rpm. Compared to DZire where slight vibrations were coming through steering wheel and the firmer seats.

- Beyond 3000 Rpms, Amaze noise felt slightly more than Dzire. The point I noted is that the hum of the i-DTEC is at a higher frequency/tone (the pitch of the sound & not loudness), so it seems like the engine is screeching louder. This may be due to the fact that it is an All Aluminum engine block & head & lightweight engine.

+ Saying that, I'll mention simultaneously that I rarely needed to floor the accelerator or rev up in the Amaze. A light press is enough.

+ The torque is felt right through & through from 1200 RPM, no turbo lag, strong mid-range, and goes through to >3000 rpms without any surge or drop! AMAZING Driveability : almost similar to Duster 110 ps engine! i-DTEC is definitely better in terms of acceleration from start or in-gear. This is the new benchmark when it come to Diesel engine performance-wise. DZire engine lacked any low-end punch, but the Turbo spools up at 2000 odd RPMs, with the engine red-lining higher than the i-DTEC but Torque drops off steeply after 3800 RPMs. Definitely the more drive-able engine is the i-DTEC.

+ The gear ratios are spot on and the gearshift has a positive slot feel to it.

- The gearshift is really smooth in DZire (but slotting in 5th felt like 3rd many times). I clearly preferred the Amaze box to the DZire one. But people will like the smooth shifting Suzuki.

That's a superb comparison ( not just the engine part, but overall ) you have done. Thanks mate.
The most important point is that you don't need to rev the amaze engine to be faster than a Dzire. That combined with the fact that Amaze is more silent than the Dzire at idle and low rpms is more than enough reasons to tilt even the NVH factor in favour of Amaze.
I need to run to Honda showroom Kochi on Monday to do a test drive myself.

For most people ( except those who buy a car based on how the dashboard looks like ), the Amaze should be the car to go for.
Other manufacturers have 1 year buffer to come up with something better, since Honda doesn't have production capabilities to manufacture more than 5000 per month.
And no the 90 PS VGT ( of both the MJD and D-4D ) is not going to help either because that has got more lag than even the 75 PS FGT which already has considerable amount of lag.