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Originally Posted by ACM The Rev and Speed limits might indeed be required to protect the engine.
20-30 secs over 2000 rpm from standstill is quite a lot actually.
The limit in rpm will not be an issue in climbing hills with rough roads due to a reasonable power band.
The speed limit is good. It will only prevent accidents. The engine must be capable of doing a lot more but the Chassis may not be able to take the speed. |
Hilarious. Now baby Honda needs protection, ale le le le.

, just kidding.
I am sure if an Alto, Chevrolet Spark and even a Wagon R's chassis can take 140 +, so can this sedan's, I mean, 140 is highly over rated, its like 87 miles/per hour, even a mammoth Safari or Scorpio have higher top speed or for that matter the tall boy Xylo.
20, 30 seconds above 2000 rpm won't do any harm at all as while driving on the highway, you will be doing above 2000 rpm's for hours on long drives.
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Originally Posted by amitk26 What makes you think they won't do that ?
If Toyota can detune D4D engine severly in Innova in India then why not Honda ? Do you think Toyota engine would have earned reputation of being super reliable if these restrictions were not imposed. AFAIK a very small minority of Innvova owners do ECU tunning but suppose if this was done by say 90% of users surely there would have been more wear and tear issues and reputation of engine rebuild around 80K KM just like Hyundai Accent engine.
Honda is a company which sold cars in India with faulty power windows and deaths were reported in 2007 Citi but no hype and hoopla just 2 weeks back an Accord burnt in Delhi and no nano like coverage perhaps that kind of public scrutiny is exclusive for Tatas. In fact no business is run by saints the objective is to maximise profits so I wont give them undue credit in abscence of proof.
Coming back to 2000RPM rev limiting it depends on torque curve and gearing.
Actually in most CR Diesel engines torque curve is of inverted U shape and if you revvv below or beyond the peak torque point you will have difficulty in driving uphill. In Safari the peak torque is at 2500 RPM ( Quoting because this is the vehicle I drive and know about). This is fundamental difference between Diesel and Petrol engines.
I am surprised that you could not drive Swift below 4000RPM in Ladakh was it a Diesel swift ?
In fact there is no need to go to Ladkah you can test it out fairly well in any of the ill designed ramps of parking lots in India. Our architects do ensure that ramp of parking lot is atleast 30-40 degrees with sharp turn to provide this test bed  |
1.5 litres Vs 100 PS and 200 NM of Torque is not detuned by any standard. Innova yes is detuned as a 2.5 litre engine producing only 103 bhp and 200 Nm does sound like a lot of cc's for this kind of power specially when units which are a litre or less in size, produce more power
Sorry, Detuning is not the only way to extract life out of an engine, A 1.3 DDIS in 105 bhp form is available for sale in the Chrysler Ypsilon and that is a lot of bhp's for the cc but it does just fine.
I know about torque curves, let me give you an example in case of the DDIS.
2000 rpm, max torque is developed, but if I am stuck somewhere, I can't rev it till 2000 rpm and let the clutch go, The rpm's will fall and you will go below the torque band, for that you need to rev higher, so that when you do dump the clutch and the rpm falls, it falls 'IN' the torque band and not below it. Same principle as shifting at higher rpm's during an enthusiastic run, so that when you do shift another gear, you fall in the turbo zone and not below it.
And yes, it was a diesel Swift with my friends + lot of truckers pushing and me alone in the car driving. Theoretical values and on road performance is always different.
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Originally Posted by amalji If this is the case, then the Swift Dzire is any day a superior car than the Amaze in terms of performance because I never felt the Dzire chasis incapable of handling 160 kmph.
My personal opinion is that Honda is - either hiding something here or
- They are being too cautious.
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+1
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Originally Posted by agambhandari I'm happy agreeing to disagree but keep in mind these points as well
There have been several cases, where a user damages a car(not obeying the advisory in the manual), and then publicly defacing the company for the same. I think Honda has found a way to advise you of the capabilities of you car.
Swift and Amaze may have similar torque(max) but the way it is delivered is different. You can check how people complain about the turbo lag in the Swift. In that case, the revs over 2000 rpm may be required. |
Yes, but which manufacturer says 'do not drive' above this speed limit in their manual ? 100 PS is too much for a 140 kmph top speed.
Oh Yes, Swift does have turbo lag, but in the situation we were talking about, turbo lag does not come in the picture as we are revving it to high rpms from stand stall to pull ourselves on slopes. IF I was just letting the clutch go from standstill, the Amaze would be far superior because of its turbo spooling at lower rpms as compared to the DDIS, but in places like Rothang or Zozila that we were talking about, that would not be the case as you would stall with just a clutch let off at idle, but you will be even bigger dire situation if you cannot rev above 2000 with the clutch down. Although its a specific situation, but hey we are all motor heads, some of us might head that direction sometime or the other in whatever we have. It would be a damper for sure in those areas
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 I really do not see any issue even with the 140kmph speed limit.
While other manufacturers prefer to detune the engine through out like the Etios rated at 67BHP, Honda decided to give a 99BHP tune but with the top speed i.e. high rpm's at WOT (wide open throttle) restricted.
If your going to be doing 140kmph or more then you will be in 5th gear at WOT. This is like extreme worst case for a diesel engine.
I would rather prefer the 99BHP everyday and live with top speed of 140kmph once in a blue moon than have 67BHP everyday and be able to touch 140kmph on rare occasions. |
At 140 kmph or even 150 you are not at WOT, maybe a little lesser than 3/4th but not WOT. At 140, we are doing like 3100 rpm, that's like way below the 5200 red line and 4000 rpm@ 76 bhp figure in case of the Swift, in case of Honda too, 5th gear @ 140 would be no where near WOT.
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Originally Posted by Sankar I would rather have the abilities of my car available for my perusal as per my needs and is not restricted, especially not when the limit is set at such a low.
It doesn't help my confidence in the product because of the speed limited 140kph. I may not do this speed everyday, not even once a week but the thought that "it can if need be" is reassuring. It will always make me wonder why they set a limiter on this car... it will make me think whether they were not confident about the car or the engine?
If 140 limit isn't an issue then Amaze doesn't need 100PS or 200NM to do 140KPH, Honda could have very much detuned the engine to around 90 or 80PS and improved fuel efficiency to 28 or 30kmpl. It will still happily do 140 and thrill the owners with a much better fuel efficiency than the competition.
So why does Honda yell out loud to the media about 1.5liter 100PS 200NM and 25kpl, when the top speed is only around that of a Maruti 800? Won't this car sell if Honda doesn't tom tom about 100PS engine as a one-upmanship over its competitors? Top speed limit isn't mentioned in the ads. The uninitiated customer will think that since this car has a stonker of an engine it will show a clean pair of heels to another competing Diesel/Petrol car but only to be surprised by a lesser powered car on the 4 lane.
If customers aren't bothered by the speed limit it will do a lot better if Honda detunes the engine and increases fuel efficiency! it certainly doesn't need 100PS to do 140kph.
Hope this engine delivers what i feel it should deliver when it makes it appearance in the new City with a higher state of tune!
Adios! Exiting this thread as i'm no longer a prospective customer. |
+1, I went to the Honda showroom with the intention of buying the Amaze as my future car, exited with a cross mark over the car.
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Originally Posted by agambhandari
Overtaking a cheaper car is no parameter for performance. Last week on the NH1, my Dad was driving the Chevy Spark and overtook a 520d!!
Also, if a guy in an Alto or 800 is mad enough to go to 140 Kmph in his car, he clearly doesn't know the capabilities of the car and its crash worthiness. Probably another reason why Honda chose this limit? |
140 is highly over rated my friend, I know so many people around driving little cars, big cars, SUV's, MUV's do 140's once in a while like it was a morning cup of tea. I have done it a million times and its not even exciting awymore. A 140 limit is a put off and that will be the case for the probable customer too as the news spreads.
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 So BMW that makes cars with V8 engines putting out 400-500bhp and sells them for close 50lakhs to crores must be the biggest cheats of all since they are speed limited to 250kmph but have V8 monsters that put out 500bhp.
Why not bring out a V6 with 250BHP that will hit 250kmph and give better FE. Why even offer a V8 with 400-500bhp?
Although I agree with you on the limiter being a spoilt sport, I do not agree that the manufacturer is cheating anybody. Do you see any car maker putting in the brochure what their car does not have vs competition?
Does Maruti mention that the Swift L/V has weak brakes in their brochure? Does Ford mention that the car may sometimes stall even in 5th gear? |
That is government regulation baba, not the company's wish, the V6's and V8's are not mileage based cars, they are performance oriented and hence getting to 250 the fastest and having the best 0 to 100 figure is what they are all about and not FE. Comparing that with the Amaze's limited 140 kmph is like comparing apples and oranges.
The Swift having weak brakes is a just a test drive away with a mention in the brochure of the things the L and V variants lack as compared to the Z variant, take a test drive of V and Z variants and you ll know yourself what you are comfortable with, in which test drive will you drive the Amaze at 140 to know that its limited or expect such a thing in a vehicle of these many horses ? That would be a wounder if I did find out later about this technicality and had the intention of having some fun with it on the highway once in a while.
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Originally Posted by i74js Lets go a little OT on this top speed issue. Take it in a positive sense. In case of a police chase, it will be possible to catch your Amaze from a car thief and you might get your car back easily ! |
Haha, the Police Bolero's will now be able to catch something on Indian roads atleast
