[spinfreak]

Originally Posted by vasanthn21

I don't understand what is silly about this. Making it optional only increases the flexibility. Not everyone going for the higher variants necessarily wants ABS and airbags.

Totally agree, 90% buyers would rather drool over and consider a car due to (Seat Height Adjust, Headrest Height adjust, Bluetooth, Auto AC,Touch Infotainment and Rear Cameras) by giving up (Airbags and ABS/EBD). Can't complain if company listens 90% ppl, business sense prevailing at Toyota.

[theMAG]

Great review GTO.

The national car has arrived, folks - make no mistake about it! The enforcement of that status now hinges entirely on Honda's pricing strategy.

[AWD]

Honda is known to work on customer feedback faster than most. Yes they were late in bringing in a diesel but once launched they will work on an improved Amaze & launch it within six months of initial launch.

I foresee changes in NVH, spruced up interiors, etc. Focusing a bit more on the negatives, guess Ride quality could need some sorting. Also any "new engine" nuances cropping up would be addressed.

When is Brio diesel expected ?

[Prabhu]

Fantastic review GTO. I hope Honda will also bring in a C2 segment diesel variant based on next generation CITY platform.

[spinfreak]

Originally Posted by AWD

Honda is known to work on customer feedback faster than most.....

I foresee changes in NVH, spruced up interiors, etc. Focusing a bit more on the negatives, guess Ride quality could need some sorting. Also any "new engine" nuances cropping up would be addressed.

If I were to decide, Negatives should be worked upon later, purchase considerations & reject reasons are top of mind! That help sell additional volume.
Look at Amaze purchase reasons...looks, proportions, interior space, larger boot, Engine specs, mileage figures, and it's a Honda sedan.

Will I reject Amaze due to x quality interiors/equipment on top variant and go for cramped
up, 3 quarter looking DZire, with 25% less power and 10% less mileage, y% less space inside and 20% smaller boot, for x plus delta interiors? Well, I'll not say no, That it's to be seen after the Amaze price reveal. :-)

In any case since I like most customers will end up buying base / mid variants, they anyways don't get the premium interior feel on the top variant. Swift or DZire ZDI or ZXI sells a paltry percentage compared to L or V. It's also way too pricey in my opinion.

It's us reviewers by default being harsh when comparing top variants across models. Compare variants that sell most! S mt with Vdi maybe?

[pgsagar]

If Honda fits this engine to City, we will have a serious contender to Verna/Vento. And if Honda fits 5-speed AT with paddle-shifts to diesel City, then heaven help Verna with its archaic 4-speed AT box.

As for Amaze, its dash-board is bare and ugly beyond words. Dzire's dash is just light years ahead. In overall appearance too, I would prefer dzire whic looks a segment higher and a shade bigger. As much as I am a fan of Honda cars, Brio/Amaze just fail to excite me.

[kamboj]

Brilliant review.

Many years ago when I was working in Bangalore, got to know about a famous Rajnikanth dialogue by fellow tamil colleagues. It goes like - Latea vanthalum latesta varuven (Even if I come late, I`ll be the latest). So apt for this belated introduction of diesel car by Honda.

Honda Amaze and upcoming Ford Ecosport are 2 serious contenders for this year's Team-Bhp Car of The Year title. Let's see who will be the winner.

[subratasenn]

Well, great review, great points all through this thread.

Honda is a great brand (in cars, in generators, in bikes) and there of course is a great recall value about this brand. And here, since we discuss cars the most of the time, we must acknowledge Honda. And we need to be amazed. Well, do we?

Amaze has a brand new engine, designed by Honda. Howsoever great Honda is, Honda is not known to produce great diesel engines. Frankly, like Suzuki, it has always stayed away from it. Honda is no Toyota, it's not Fiat, it's not VW, it's not Renault. It's introducing it's diesel engines for the first time.

Engineering, fine. We all understand engineering. If engineering alone could have produced a good diesel engine, Suzuki would have done it long ago. But they decided to borrow engines. First from Renault, then from Fiat. Many others have failed with their own diesel engines.

Here, I am sceptical about Honda. Not the brand name. But the concept. Whether the brand new engine will click or not we will know five years from now. Or 2 lakh kilometers. I know a Toyota engine will last, or a Fiat engine, or a VW engine. But what about about a new Honda engine which has not been tested?

I'll buy an Amaze after people do 2 lakh kilometers on it. Not before that. I am sorry, but I am being pragmatic, I have nothing against Honda per se. I know they make beautiful cars, as long they are doing petrol cars. Till that time, I'll stick to Toyota or Suzuki or VW with tested engines.

I appreciate Honda for making a brand new engine for "emerging markets". But as an individual I have "emerged" to take a decision not only by brand name!

[Dr.Nishath]

Originally Posted by vasanthn21

I don't understand what is silly about this. Making it optional only increases the flexibility. Not everyone going for the higher variants necessarily wants ABS and airbags.

Unfortunately,it is that particular group which gets into trouble in case of a serious accident.You'd be amazed (no pun intended) at the number of road fatalities that can be avoided each year by having airbags and ABS in a vehicle.It is sad,that in India, there is very little value for human life.I believe manufacturers(Toyota in this case) are equally culpable as they do not incorporate these safety features as standard in their products,rather going the optional route to demonstrate their "flexibility". Unless i have hopelessly got it wrong,this is what vid6639 is talking about.At the end of the day,customers opting for a higher variant should get the safety features.The manufacturer owes it to them.

@vid6639
You reviewed the Amaze,i want your opinion! Dzire (d) or Amaze(d)??
Which one would you recommend to a first time buyer who wants a sub 4 meter for in-city use mainly, with the occasional weekend getaway with the family.Kindly consider Bangalore roads and traffic and no,spartan dashboard is NOT a deal-breaker.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Dr.Nishath

@vid6639
You reviewed the Amaze,i want your opinion! Dzire (d) or Amaze(d)??
Which one would you recommend to a first time buyer who wants a sub 4 meter for in-city use mainly, with the occasional weekend getaway with the family.Kindly consider Bangalore roads and traffic and no,spartan dashboard is NOT a deal-breaker.

I'm going to wait for Honda to announce the pricing next week before I answer that but I can tell you if the pricing is within 40K of the Dzire, the Amaze would be my choice.

I can give a few reasons for my choice next week.

[extreme_torque]

Incredible if you think about it, that the twice as priced Corolla diesel comes with a much inferior engine. Makes me wonder, if the so-called cost cutting is actually related to costs.

[gomez84]

Any rough guesses about the AT price?😕

[S2!!!]

@ GTO: A very detailed and informative review. Its nice to see the consistency of the official reviews.

However, as much as I like the review I cannot agree that the Amaze looks like a well thought of design and the boot is well integrated into the overall design. Probably that is because the Brio was introduced first and am so used to seeing it in the hatch form that the look of the sedan seems indigestible. There was a time our streets had handsome/ smart sedans being driven but now as time goes by, it is getting filled with ugly sub 4 metre ducklings.

Having criticised its look I do believe that this diesel Honda will drastically affect the sales of not only its direct competitors but also that of the VW Vento and the Skoda Rapid whose diesel units are strong performers in their segment but this little Amaze clearly undercuts them (atleast from the reviews). For a self driven diesel sedan the Amaze seems to be an ideal option, think about it, you get a reliable Japanese product which is relatively cheaper to buy, run and maintain (assumed), fairly well built and powerful and fuel-efficient at the same time, why would anyone by the VW twins then?? Its time for a cheaper, sub-4 metre VW now?? OMG another sub-4 metre expected!!!

[Max]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Well, great review, great points all through this thread.

Engineering, fine. We all understand engineering. If engineering alone could have produced a good diesel engine, Suzuki would have done it long ago. But they decided to borrow engines. First from Renault, then from Fiat. Many others have failed with their own diesel engines.

Here, I am sceptical about Honda. Not the brand name. But the concept. Whether the brand new engine will click or not we will know five years from now. Or 2 lakh kilometers. I know a Toyota engine will last, or a Fiat engine, or a VW engine. But what about about a new Honda engine which has not been tested?

I think they do have experience with diesel technology and they have been selling diesel cars in Europe since quite some time (2003?). Besides, they must have tested this engine like work horse in all conditions including in India before introducing it in the market. Honda, is excellent company, they managed to made asimo (humanoid robot) who can walk, talk and dance, diesel engine is not that challenging.

I am not sure why they introduced diesel so late in India! May be they didn't want to invest in diesel plant in India? Just search google for "honda diesel accord -india" (without quote)

http://efficientautomobile.com/2013-...rd-diesel-usa/
Honda has been building diesel powered Civics, Accords and other models for the European market for a few years now but will we ever get a chance to drive one here in North America? Back in 2003, Honda developed their first diesel engine, which is the 2.2L four-cylinder i-CTDi. This new engine offered exceptional clean and efficient performance. In Europe, Honda utilized this new diesel engine on the Accord and other models with great acclaim. In 2007, this engine was equipped with a more advanced version of the i-CTDi that offers emission performance equivalent to the of a gasoline petrol engine. This diesel engine should be clean enough to make it to the North American market if or when Honda decides to make it available. If consumers want a diesel powered Honda Accord bad enough Honda is sure to fill the need. with the increase in costs for fuel, more and more diesel models are making there way to the United States and Canada.

The Honda Accord diesel has scored its first award in 2005 - winning the "New diesel Car of the Year" category in the Fleet Excellence Awards
http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/hond...2-16-04-05.asp
http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/hond...d-25-01-05.asp

[Motored Mindset]

Stellar review GTO & Vidyut, I've rated it 5 stars.

This car is a mixed bag, on the one hand a recognition of Honda's prowess in the engine department and on the other being very un-Honda with the large panel gaps on the boot, noisy engine and the exposed boot lever mechanism on the inside.

I wouldn't be surprised if the diesel became a tuner's delight, where a piggyback ECU would sacrifice a few kmpl in favour of another 15 horses.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Howsoever great Honda is, Honda is not known to produce great diesel engines. It's introducing it's diesel engines for the first time.

You're mistaken there. They have made the 2.2 DTEC engine for the CR-V and Civic in Europe for a while now. In addition, the 1.5L engine that sells in the Amaze is essentially the same engine 1.6L that Honda has developed for Europe, but with a change in bore and stroke to reduce the overall engine capacity and the use of a fixed turbo instead of a VGT. You can be assured that it has undergone rigorous testing before being introduced in the European market.