[wolfinstein]

Ok Just finished with the Tank.

Last Refill was 7.89 Kg of CNG @ 19.20 Per Kg

Assuming some gas left- I checked it was slight so Rounded the Gas tank to 8 Kgs.

Running- 99 % on AC, Including Stop-Go traffic-Idle

Total KM Clocked on Tank- 134.2

Minus 1 Km for Petrol startups

So Calculated KM - 133.2

Gas Fill- 8 Kgs

FE - 133.2/8 = 16.65 Km per Kg

Cost per KM = 1.13 Per KM on AC


rpm- 1500-2000

Speed- 60 Km/ph

[saildrive]

Hi Guys

I had been contemplating to install the CNG kit from Shrimankar for a few months now. Finally I called up Shrimankar in Mumbai and inquired and I was told that the close loop will cost 48000/- and it will take a maximum of 2 working days to set it up.

I then got a call from Shrimankar saying that since my car is under warranty I will have to root my installation from Shaman Motors from whom
I had purchased the vehicle.

I then called Shaman Motors and then the Relationship Manager (RM) went on with a sob story of her life - she said
a) there have been numerous complaints about customers who have installed the kit, the car does not start and there has been a problem with the kit
b) it is advisable to not have the kit in the car as the car will lose its resale value
c) Due to the constant complaints lot of CNG car (XETA) have removed the kit from their cars
d) Tata Motors had passed on a circular to all the dealers to avoid request of CNG kit installations
e) Tata in the near future could come up with a CNG kit by their own, so it was recommended not to install the kit

I drive atleast 50 kms per day from work to office and back and its been a setback of sorts as now I am in doubt whether I should install the kit or wait for Tata to come up with a kit or run the car of Petrol - which is making holes in my pocket.

The RM also mentioned that in her honest advise and opinion I should abstain from having the kit installed to have a better car - and no disappointments or regrets

Is there anyone in the forum who has experienced a similar problem or has had friends or known people who have removed the kit and if so what are the exact issues with thekit.

Hope that we get to know what are the exact issues and if so inform those who are planning to have the kit installed.

Looking forward to your responses

Cheers .......Saildrive

[wolfinstein]

I guess they are trying to emotionalize this issue and buy their way out, TATA has again approved Shrimanker to install CNG kits in their XETA but only closed loop system with OEM Bedini equipment as well as OEM Wiring Harness from TYCO - TATA OEM XETA make.

You should get in touch with TATA for the issue, I agree there were considerable problem with CNG fittments, Purely based on Shrimanker Inadequacy and Callous attitude combined with XETA ECU and Wiring Layouts which were having Surge or Mismatch errors, Most of these issues have been resolved since last month and I'm successfuly running my system.

I guess you need to see it for yourself to believe it.

My earlier issues are listed chronologically:

1) Check Engine- Lamda Error- Faulty Wiring- Replaced new harness ( Open Loop)

2) May 2007- Check Engine- Lamda Error- MPFI Emmulator faulty- Replaced. ( Open Loop)

3) May 2007- TATA Called for New Harness and Equipment Upgrade- OEM Bedini Lamda/Emmulator/Custom Made Harness from Motherson Sumi. ( System Made into Closed Loop from Open Loop)

4) June 2007- TATA Called for OEM Tyco Designed Harness and ECU Upgrade- Found Lamda Error- Replaced Spark Plugs- Running OK at time of writing.

[saildrive]

Many thanks for the update Wolfinstein.

Should I have a word with the Dealers again and get the installation done... which they said will be my call and risk

Another thing is that - you mentioned Open Loop and Shrimankar and also most of us have all been talking about Close Loop.... please advise.

Thanks

Saildrive

[hitanshu]

Salil,

Look at it this ways - the dealer gets nothing (much) for their hassle. You would be better served to check out the Xeta CNGs that come in for service, or that are in queue at the CNG pumps

My bro has a Nov 2006 Xeta CNG, all of 14k km by now: ~50km a side daily. The pickup is a little less (partly weight of indica, partly CNG) than others like Swift etc but its total VFM.

Only issue he had with CNG - faulty lambda sensor - the car would die while decelerating/idling - queries over the phone to vivek auto were met with usual "Chalta hai, wait till 5000km" nonsense. At the service, took the mech 30 secs to isolate the problem. Since then everything is superb.

Side Note: A-One is completely useless. Bro wanted Blue GLG.A-One made him pay booking amount, didn't deliver for a couple of weeks, then said this color GLG is not under production. Fight to get back money, waste of time, coupla phone calls later - same color/model was sourced from Vivek. A-One is a A-No anyday

[wolfinstein]

Well the XETA CNG system has gone through 3 major enhancement in the following series :

1) When XETA was Launched- Shrimanker Bedini was installing Open loop system with Advanced Timing Sensor, Techno MPFI Emmulator, Local Wiring Harness.

2) Sometime in June 2006- Shrimanker Bedini was installing Closed loop system at additional Costs- The system included- Lamda Controller Module,Stepper Motor, Techno Emmulator. Open loop system was also available

3) Sometime in Feb 2007, After Numerous complaints and Cases against Owner of Shrimanker Bedini in Delhi-One such case of 100 Taxi Operators storming Shrimankers Office and Thrashing Jignesh Bhai- The Owner.
TATA took matters into their control came with offering new retrofitment as well as oppurtunity to convert all Open loop cars into Closed loop with additional payment of Rs 6000 and 6 Months warranty.

A) First Retrofittment came with new Lamda Controller LS 200, Bedini OEM MPFI Emmulator, OEM Wiring Harness from Motherson Sumi.

B) With problems still being reported TATA authorised Shrimanker to install the new OEM XETA Wiring Harness from TATA's stable TYCO.
( The Features of this new wiring are- New Heat Resistance coating, Thicker Wiring,Label Layout, OEM Couplers, Dual Lamda Circuit- The Lamda Sensor(O2) in the Exhaust Manifold feeds the signal to the Lamda Controller LS 200 which emmulates the readings and sends it to the Orignal ECU of the XETA.)

This along with ECU Recall from all series to Series 27, Most ECU's are just remapped ECU Supplier in most cases is Valeo.

My XETA is still on its orignal Sagem ECU, whereas comparitively people have got 5-10 replacements already. Due to ECU Surge problems, But with the New Wiring from TYCO all these issues are mostly resolved.

TATA Gave an AD in last weeks TOI Delhi offering the New Improved XETA V2 With CNG and extended warranty cover.

Unfortunately Shrimankers Contract has been renewed, lets hope the problems now stand reduced.

[tripsme]

Hey Wolfenstein... The Wolf's Lair

I am planning to get a XETA GLX for myself soon. Only I am wondering on getting a company approved CNG done in it. Mumbai city.

What's ur feed on ur kit?
Operationally...any hiccups...speed...acceleration...leakage etc?

I want to go for petrol + CNG.
And yeah...can the two fuels be used by switching or just CNG???
mail on tripsabhishek@yahoo.co.in in cae i miss it.

[wolfinstein]

1.4 is a great machine for CNG, You won't feel some of the Minus as compared with the 1.2 XETA.

However their are rumours doing rounds that there is a new XETA to be launched by December, You can look into it, if you're not in an urgent need.

In the Open loop system, the problems faced were Check Engine- Lamda Control error which was because of the Incorrect Mix. Some people expierenced stalling also due to the same

With the Closed loop upgrades the only known problem is ECU surges and blow outs which have now reduced since the OEM XETA wiring from TATA - TYCO came out.

In my GLG 1.4 I did not face a ECU blowout, I had to get a Mandatory ECU upgrade for CNG.

In Deeps GVG 1.2 He is running his 3 ECU with the New wiring.

But its not happening on a large scale to cause Alarms.

The Car is good, performance is great and so is the FE, just keep the Maintainence guidelines and Rest assured you have a Reliable Car.

The car's primary fuel will be Petrol, it will run on petrol as well as on Gas.

The Switch(Changeover) is in 3 positions Rocker type-

Position 1( Left)- Car runs only on Petrol,Visual Indicator Orange Light.

Position 2(Center)- Car starts on Petrol, with RPM setting it gradually converts to CNG with a soft click, In my case the Changeover RPM has been set to 2000, The car will remain on GAS until you reach 4000 rpm where it will reconvert to Petrol and reducing the RPM will again convert back to CNG.

Position 3 ( Right)-Car starts and runs only on CNG, Not the Ideal recommended positon- Visual Indicator Green LED.

No leakage yet, in the last 1 year, Always keep a periodic check in every visit.

Speed good- Reached a Max of 120 on Gas mode, City speedsof 40-70 KMPH in Ideal 1700- 2500 rpm Range, For Sudden pickups you may need to downshift gears.

Even with AC, the 1.4 has no major power loss in CNG mode- I drive on these speeds on AC. Regular City Driving.

On the Highway, I did speeds of 90-100 with Ease on the CNG mode, Indica is built well for High speed stability and Highway endurance, It won't dissapoint you then.

But Indica is Not a Race car or a Matchbox, So don't expect a Zoommy pickup, Intially its slow but the Monster catches on pretty fast.

Company Approved, Shrimanker Bedini is the only option if you are wanting to retain the Warranty(Both Manufacturers as well as Extended)- Just ensure you choose the Closed Loop Lamda System along with Insurance IDV increased at Time of purchase for CNG cover and RTO Endorsement on the RC.

The fittment happens after you purchase the car, so you can pay the Insurance IDV for CNG at the time of purchase, and Have your dealer get the kit approved from the RTO after the fittment so at the time of your RC delivery, you have the details already mentioned and you won't have to run all over again for the change.

[tripsme]

Thanks Wolf brother.....THAT was real awesome sensible compilation of info on XETA CNG A-Z.
I recommend all those courting a XETA CNG to go thru this piece.
And yeah....me thinking of GLG only....VFM supreme !!!
Drive .....HO !!!

[mihirdm]

Hi wolf, I have been reading your vast and indepth experience of XETA CNG. I have recently booked xeta glg 1.2 from om sai motors, kandivli, mumbai. I am getting a bit confused with the technicalities that need to be kept in mind while getting the CNG fitment done. Do I need to remember these and tell my dealer these specifics about the EMU, timer, actuator, etc.... if i plan to get my XETA converted to CNG?

Would u suggest to get it converted to CNG right away when i buy it or i should clock some Kms and then do it? Do i need to inform my dealer that i need to get it done from Shrimankar Prabhadevi and that i need Bendini products and Tata's TYCO wiring? Please advice on the same. I will post my xeta pics as soon as i get it.

Do you think blaupunkt player and JBL speaker combination is a good combination to rock xeta?


Mod's Note: Please give appropriate breaks between sentences and make proper use of capital case to make your posts more readable. Post edited.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by mihirdm

Hi wolf, I have been reading your vast and indepth experience of XETA CNG. I have recently booked xeta glg 1.2 from om sai motors, kandivli, mumbai. I am getting a bit confused with the technicalities that need to be kept in mind while getting the CNG fitment done. Do I need to remember these and tell my dealer these specifics about the EMU, timer, actuator, etc.... if i plan to get my XETA converted to CNG?

Would u suggest to get it converted to CNG right away when i buy it or i should clock some Kms and then do it? Do i need to inform my dealer that i need to get it done from Shrimankar Prabhadevi and that i need Bendini products and Tata's TYCO wiring? Please advice on the same. I will post my xeta pics as soon as i get it.

If you are keen on CNG, go in for the 1.4 version so that the extra power and torque compensate somewhat for the loss in power and performance while on CNG mode. Till some time back, Tata wasn't offering warranty on 1.2 fitted with CNG though it was offered on 1.4. Don't know what's the situation now.

[phamilyman]

You might need to modify your booking. AFAIk, in our case, CNG fitment was done through the dealer - so we paid amounts at dealer, though post delivery, we went after a week (as specified by shrimankar) to get it fitted.

You cant add it in, post facto, and expect your warranty to hold.

[tripsme]

Hi All,

It's a new car test-drive and buy deal report.
Had started a thread in dealerships but no readership.

I just did a test drive of Indica XETA GLX at Shaman, Prabhadevi, Mumbai.
The car came out to be exactly as we hear about it....solid ride, good engine and rev, stable and mean, good improvements inside.....but with quite tacky finishing and plastics.
Infact I immediately understood what tackey meant when I closed the door

But the issue is here....

The dealer offered me this deal.....
Car ex shw 328000/-
Insurance 12xxx/-
Reg 29xxx/-
Stamp dty 2800/-
Ext warranty (18+30 mnths) 4400/-

Loan 293000/-
Financing discount 11500/-
EMI 6800/-

Net DP 77xxx/- (with loan deal)
Dealer Disc 20000/-

Final DP 57xxx/-

-------------------And then I mentioned CNG
Kit 30000/-
Install chrg 22000/-
Disc. 18000/- (THIS IS NOT OVER AND ABOVE THE 20k MENTIONED EARLIER BUT SOME HOW IT SUBSTITUTES THE 20 k DISC.)

I asked how come the disc. is getting lowered (20 to 18k) when I buy a kit also.........????? Blank stare....

Now guys.....
1. I feel the reg charges are bloated....and who pays stamp duty???
2. CNG install charges of 22k.....Dear God....aren't they fleecing me plain???
3. If I go for a non-TATA CNG kit, warranty loss.....and THAT is pretty dangerous to do in an INDICA I am told...
It's sorely needed......!!!

Help me with some gyan and market rates.................

[wolfinstein]

Allright- Firstly Its always better to pay extra and have the dealer fittment for CNG as your warranty remains.

Registration charges are pretty bloated everywhere, but not to an extreme a decent figure of 1000 is fine though...You may get it reduced to the exact amopunt, just incase you opt for a Finance deal or the dealer Loves you so..!

CNG Kit costed me 46,000-47,000 excluding the Insurance IDV of Rs.1900 but including the RTO Registration- This was for a 12 Kg Closed Loop-Lamda System from Shrimanker Bedini-OEM for TATA XETA.

I don't think there should be any other Installation charge, At least not here in Delhi. You may want to enquire directly from TATA or another Dealer, Will save you the Raw deal.

The Battle for a 1.2 vs 1.4

There is a certain difference, For one- 1.2 Feels much smoother than a 1.4 however the Power loss is noticeable in the 1.2 with and without CNG. You may feel the need for downshifting at times in a 1.2.

But the difference is not so much so that you can give the 1.2 a miss, In any case the 1.4 is GLX varient-pretty up from the 1.2 GLS or GLG(GVG).

Since I have tested both, I'm pretty much neutral on this, However a 1.4 makes better rational if you do have the pocket.

(The Above CNG Review is based on my XETA GLG 1.4-Make June 2006)

XETA in delhi is getting a 30,000 Discount- Thats why its better to check with TATA and some other dealers.

Please do clock upto 1000-1500 KM before the CNG Fittment, Its better to have a decent Run In and also will take care of any Issues identifiable before the Retrofittment.

The XETA CNG has- OEM Wiring from TATA TYCO, Bedini Closed Loop System including Reducer,Lamda Controller,Stepper Motor, Solenoid,Copper Piping,Clips from Klipco, CNG Tank depending on which you choose 9 Kg or 12 Kg difference of Rs 1200 or so-I guess the Tank Make is RAMA, Steel Harness Frame for Cylinder.

[mihirdm]

Hi Wolf,
Thx for your prompt response buddy. i sure will keep that in mind.