[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

Is RD available for honda diesel engines? Last time i checked compatibility list on their website, no Honda were there.

It would be great if it can be used to remove top speed limit which Honda has given to the diesel Amaze.

Buddy,

The I-DTEC engine is new and the reliability, performance, behaviour has to be studied properly so that RD guys can design a box that does spoil its reliability. Most of the RD users will keep the ECU mode on P2 , which draws the highest possible performance from the Box and the engine so give the his thew some time to conduct trials so that the big Eden launched is reliable both for their brand and the engine. RD guys must I this already as we discuss some they will not leave the market free.

You don't want failed internal parts?!

Anurag.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

A new era, and a new voyage has begun. I finally had my Empress with me, and she was on her maiden journey home, which I hope is the first of many, many adventures to come.

Excellent review Avinash! Very detailed, informative and comprehensive as you have covered almost all the aspects which should really help potential buyers looking forward to pick up the City.

Having driven the Amaze on couple of occasions, I can relate to what you mention about the Linear power delivery as well as the momentum the car has in idle speeds which makes life so easy in B2B traffic.

An almost in existent lag also makes it another beautiful diesel car to drive.

No comments needed on the space that City offers - The previous Gen too was at par and having driven that with full family, I knew it was one of the spacious sedans in the segment (leaving Manza or Verito).


Have shared your review URL with my colleague who own the Second Gen City and now wants to pick up the iDTEC.

Wish you all the best behind the wheels of yet another Honda

[neel911]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

I will be returning back to him tomorrow to get the shiny black parts of the OEM Head Unit and the right-most AC vent section (housing the controls for the ORVMs) covered with film as well.

Thanks Avi for details. Few things here:
- If you happen to develop lot of bubbles and have to redo the AC part, see if matte film would look better. The AC part is not glossy so to retain look, matte film might go better
- Make sure the film used is of high quality, something similar to capdase films. Whenever I've used capdase films, I notice that air bubbles do not sneak it that easily and they last a very long time.
- Can you share, how the vendor plans to do custom cut for piano black finish. I'm planning DIY so could use some help.
- Also see if he has something similar to 3M paint protection film as it'll be easy to apply
- If you notice, in AC panel, there is a line where the LEDs for functions such as 'Auto', 'On/Off' are situated. This line is not at same level as the AC touch panel. How was the screen protector applied over this area? Was a cut in form of a straight line made?

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by malgudi

First oil change as per honda is at 10000 kms in 3rd free service. Already got my 2 free services done at 0 bill.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

- Service interval is of 1-month/1000 kms, 3-months/5000 kms and thereafter every 6-months/10,000 kms. Not ideal for those whose running is less than 1500 kms per month.

Thanks and yes, I knew that. Must have zoned out for a moment yesterday when punching that last reply yesterday night.

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Excellent review Avinash! Very detailed, informative and comprehensive as you have covered almost all the aspects which should really help potential buyers looking forward to pick up the City.


Have shared your review URL with my colleague who own the Second Gen City and now wants to pick up the iDTEC.

Thanks a bunch, Parag.

I am humbled - if my report helps your colleague in any which way in his decision-making, then it will have proved it's worth.

Originally Posted by neel911

Thanks Avi for details. Few things here:
- If you happen to develop lot of bubbles and have to redo the AC part, see if matte film would look better. The AC part is not glossy so to retain look, matte film might go better

Thanks, neel. I'll see if matte film is available with him. My friend deals in mobile accessories so this job is completely new to him.

Originally Posted by neel911

- Make sure the film used is of high quality, something similar to capdase films. Whenever I've used capdase films, I notice that air bubbles do not sneak it that easily and they last a very long time.

Either that, or spray the panel with the cleaning foam to make it wet, allowing for better grip for the film. Let me see if he has any capdase film with him too.

Originally Posted by neel911

- Can you share, how the vendor plans to do custom cut for piano black finish. I'm planning DIY so could use some help.

Same way he did the ACC panel - measure, cut out the portion from the roll, apply it, and cut out the exact HU area, then cover the HU screen with a smaller piece. I was busy all day today so couldn't go to get it done. Hopefully it should be done by tomorrow or over the weekend. Will post detailed pics of the same.

Originally Posted by neel911

- Also see if he has something similar to 3M paint protection film as it'll be easy to apply

He has a few high quality custom-cut company films for touchscreen smartphones. The ACC panel/HU is bigger, so those won't fit. Or it would be done in a jiffy.

Originally Posted by neel911

- If you notice, in AC panel, there is a line where the LEDs for functions such as 'Auto', 'On/Off' are situated. This line is not at same level as the AC touch panel. How was the screen protector applied over this area? Was a cut in form of a straight line made?

Haven't noticed that yesterday since it was approaching evening. Will check it out closely tomorrow morning and get back to you. But from what I remember, he made a cut and the film set itself over it. Will double-check it first thing tomorrow.

[RavenAvi]

Sorry for the lack of updates, guys. I was completely tied up with March Closing work till yesterday.

Anyway, I found a lot of time to spend with Empress since yesterday evening, when I got the remaining film-covering work done for all the interior glossy-black sections - area on and around the Head Unit & ORVM buttons-panel on the right side of the steering.

Today morning I got up early and spent almost 2 hours inspecting my i-DTEC inside and out, and while almost all of the features have been covered by GTO in his fantastic official review, I'll see if I can post a few separate observations from my side.


- Empress is a throttle-less Automatic!
No seriously, I had a chance to fully test out my observation from last week when I had reported that Empress moves forward smoothly without any throttle input when slotted into the 1st gear. I drove into an empty straight road and tested this in all gears, and these are my findings:

1st gear - about 8-9 kmph, RPM @ 1000.
2nd gear - about 17-18 kmph, RPM @ 1000.
3rd gear - about 25-27 kmph, RPM @ 1100.
4th gear - about 35-36 kmph, RPM @ 1100.
5th gear - about 42-43 kmph, RPM @ 1200.
6th gear - slowing down smoothly, RPM steadying @ 1000.

No jerkiness and sudden thrusts forward were experienced in any gearshifts upward/downward. The ECU of Empress must have taken over, and at the optimum throttle-less speeds of all gears, the green indicators on either side of the ODO glowed brightly. Mind you, small inclines meant the speeds went down, but there was absolutely no jerking or stalling.

I think this is one of the main reasons why Empress doesn't stall/jerk when slowing down over speed-breakers in the 2nd gear, and simply moves forward with a tap on the throttle.The i-DTEC has been finetuned magnificently by Honda engineers.

- Fixed armrest is a pain.
Sit down in the driver's seat and adjust it according to your comfort, and the armrest feels too far back! I recall that during my drive home from Raipur, I never once felt the armrest below my elbow. It's certainly useless for shorter drivers who like to drive by sitting close to the steering wheel. You have to be tall and a really laid-back driver, with the driver's seat set nearly 3/4ths of the way back, to be able to rest your left elbow on the armrest and make any use of it's comfort. If you are using the driver seat height adjustment to go higher, the armrest again falls short of any real use.

- Steering rake adjustment not optimum.
The 3rd-gen City had much better adjustment range, IMO. The rake adjustment at it's lowest setting is completely useless, even for the shortest of drivers. I have to keep it all the way up and still it eats into my view of the top part of the speedo. The steering unit itself is pretty heavy, and the rake adjustment lever is too far down, which makes this adjustment a real exercise.

- Limited headroom for rear passengers.
There's dollops of arm/leg/shoulder space in the rear no doubt, but headroom is slightly lesser for taller passengers due to the sloping roofline. Going over speed-breakers can result in head bumping into the roof on the inside. For shorter people (<5'5"), this is no problem.

- Who designed that rear parcel tray?!
The high-placed parcel tray absolutely eats through all of the driver's rear display through the IRVM. I am using just the camera's display + the two ORVMs while reversing, and the IRVM has become almost 50% ineffective. The integrated head rests of the rear seat have become useless now, and Honda should have given adjustable rear head rests now that they have "bumped up" the rear parcel tray.

- Rear AC vents throw lesser air than the front vents.
Even at the highest blower speeds, the rear AC vents release cool air at a fixed lower speed only. But this is not much of an issue since Empress's ACC, being quite powerful, cools down the entire cabin in no time.

- Beige interiors are a real pain.
One of the main reasons why I haven't removed the plastics covering the seats yet. Once I get the nomad mats work done + the seat covers installed, maybe I will be able to breathe more easy.

- Golden Brown Metallic is a dirt magnet.
Dirt particles stick to Empress like glue, and I have to Jopasu them off every day before putting the car cover up. This color shade is not ideal for dusty cities like mine, although there is some pride in owning this exclusive-for-2014-City color shade since I was told that this is the most expensive shade in Honda Cars India's color palette.

- Rear taillamp combination looks gorgeous at night.
The bright-red twin tail lamps look fantastic in their glow, specially when the brake is pressed. It makes Empress stand out from every other car in it's vicinity. The smartly designed side indicators in the rear also add to this exclusive factor as well.


And finally, a wishlist for the 2014 City's facelift, due in 3-4 years' time:

- Lower the rear parcel tray.
- Provide rear-adjustable head rests.
- Provide height-adjustable seat belts. (my 12L Empress doesn't have this, while my 8L Pegasus had it!)
- Provide 185 section tyres at the minimum. 195s would be welcome!
- Get a new design consultant for the Alloy section.
- Get a new design consultant for the Front Grille too, while you are at it.
- Give us a 5th alloy.
- Provide boot cover for the inside of the boot.
- Rear bumper looks monotonous.
- Slightly more under-thigh support for all seats would be appreciated.
- Remove those glossy black sections on the central console pronto!
- A touchscreen HU would be great.
- Keyfob of the V MTs should have trunk release button as well, to distinguish them from the S MTs and the SV MTs. (the manual shows this, guess the Indian Citys don't get them!)
- A more discreet rearview camera placement is favored.
- Hazard Light button placement needs to be re-examined.
- Beige/Black/Silver interior scheme is a mismatch. All-black is much better.
- Foglamp section should have integrated foglamps only (like the Fiesta/EcoSport). The honeycomb grille doesn't look that great.
- Rear AC vents need to match the interior color scheme.
- Rear disc brakes would be a bonus.
- Cladding in both wheel wells is desirable.
- Sound insulation for the i-DTECs needs to be further tweaked, to bring the NVH levels fully under control.


And now for the pictorial.

Look closely - the left (driver-side) headlamp unit is shinier than the right unit. Reason? The dealership had replaced the left headlamp during delivery due to fogging issues.



Front bumper ventilation design is inspired by the Accord.



Close look at the headlamp assembly. Both beams + foglamp illumination is sufficient for now.



Unique wiper design, exclusive to the Honda City.



Close look at the taillamp assembly. Notice the pointed turn indicator section?



Look how the taillamp design juts forward. Beware of side impacts at the rear!





Passenger side doorwell contains the stamped VIN number & engine number.



Driver side doorwell houses the recommended tyre pressures sticker.



Rear door section, with space for a 1-liter bottle down below and a magazine/newspaper space (folded up). Sufficient to rest your right arm.



Naked boot looks out of sorts!



If you thought the naked bootlid was bad, have a look at the underside of the boot itself! Bad way of displaying cost-cutting in a premium sedan.



Spare wheel is not an alloy, and looks out of place.



Tools stored in a pouch?! The mind boggles.



This finishing on either side of the spare wheel well looks very, very cheap. Honda should have covered it.





High-placed/designed taillamp makes the rear bumper look monotonous. Rear reflector is placed too far down.



Minimum-maximum rear leg space. You can stretch, stretch some more, and then stretch again!



Rear leg space with driver's seat adjusted according to my 6'0" frame.



Floor hump isn't much of a problem for the 5th occupant, unlike some other cars.



ORVMs only fold halfway inwards. Not ideal for squeezing through tight gaps.





Driver side door panel looks fantastic in that metallic finish.



The rear armrest with cupholders of varying sizes. A bit low, IMO.



The driver seat set 3/4ths of the way back to utilise the front armrest.



Naked fuse box present (under the steering column) in production models too.



This cut on the floor matting on the front passenger side (as pointed out by GTO in the official review) is still present. Wonder what it's for?



A wire hanging out from the wiper assembly. Yep, fit and finish not upto expectations.



Driver side sunvisor doesn't get a vanity mirror, although there is space for covering that on the underside of the roof! Maybe it's available for international models only.



The headrest for the driver's seat locks only at the stalk's lowest position. Result? Headrest locked at it's highest position only! Not ideal for comparably shorter drivers.




(Continued...)

[RavenAvi]

The recesses behind the phone buttons on the steering. Rest your fingers here and tap outwards to receive/disconnect calls.



Hard to miss!



Notice how nicely integrated the side blinker is. Almost inconspicuous due to the darker Golden Brown shade on the ORVM.



Steering rake adjustment at it's lowest. Might benefit the shortest of drivers.



Steering rake adjustment at it's highest, as viewed by me. Still eats into the view of the top portion of the speedo.



Idling RPM. 800-ish.



The Cruise control buttons. Press "Cruise" on the top to...



...activate the "Cruise Main" on the speedo.



Premium beige fabric, Honda calls it. I call it "headache".



Glovebox is sufficiently wide and spacious.



Notice the loose rubber dangling on the left side of the glovebox? Shoddy finish!



The rubber on the right side is done properly.



Right-side panel covered by film. Not that great I know but it will at least keep the scratches/dirt away.



Cupholders in front are sufficiently wide and should take 1-liter bottles easily.



The lids covering the Power-In, Aux & USB ports. No springs inside and feel flimsy to the touch.



The HU section covered by film as well. Might cut out the button sections later.



How it looks under sunlight. Buttons can be easily pressed through the film.



Another shot of the covered ACC panel.



If it's a...



It has to be the...

Will be back later to post details about Honda's OEM HU and it's menus and functions. Ciao for now.

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The recesses behind the phone buttons on the steering. Rest your fingers here and tap outwards to receive/disconnect calls....Will be back later to post details about Honda's OEM HU and it's menus and functions. Ciao for now.

Congrats on the beauty that Empress is...

Could you also elaborate on the horns and their "power" while you are at it? We test drove the SV variant and it's horn sounded, to put it politely, meek. As per the brochure all variants have dual horns (??). A confirmation would be great.

The current waiting period in Bangalore for the VX variant is > 5 months :( So have all the time in the world to explore the features or the lack thereof..

[pravinkenator]

Hi Avi,

This is quite an impressive review indeed, exhaustive !

How are the stock horns which were provided with the city ? As of what I remember the ones which were provided in my amaze was pretty meek ! Are you planning for some upgrade in this regard.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Before I put my virtual pen to paper, I must mention that unlike most new car owners who upgrade (some downgrade) because of problems related to space, expenses, and other requirements, my new-car journey sprung up due to an actual problem.

[RavenAvi]

Thank you so much, guys.

Originally Posted by vinjosep

Could you also elaborate on the horns and their "power" while you are at it? We test drove the SV variant and it's horn sounded, to put it politely, meek. As per the brochure all variants have dual horns (??). A confirmation would be great.

Originally Posted by pravinkenator

How are the stock horns which were provided with the city ? As of what I remember the ones which were provided in my amaze was pretty meek ! Are you planning for some upgrade in this regard.

Horns are strictly average. As was with the 3rd gen City, it might suffice for sparsely-filled lanes/roads, but for crowded B2B traffic, an upgrade is highly recommended. All variants of the 2014 City come with dual horns, and they are not impressive.

A set of Hella twins should be great. It is on my to-do list.

Originally Posted by vinjosep

The current waiting period in Bangalore for the VX variant is > 5 months :( So have all the time in the world to explore the features or the lack thereof..

Waiting period for any VX variant over here has jumped to 6 months now! Those who already got their City VX MTs are lucky. I myself was in line for the VX petrol but lack of VX MTs made me go for the V MT i-DTEC.

As regards the features, the 2014 City is sufficiently loaded to make a case for itself. Can't beat the Verna in this regard but the City now combines gizmos + practicality + reliability, a combination which is hard to beat.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

A wire hanging out from the wiper assembly. Yep, fit and finish not upto expectations.

That is not a wire assembly sir,

It is a metal bend that holds the wiper arm upwards when lifted. The larger the ring kind of piece that you see inside the wiper taller/perpendicular will the wiper be standing when lifted up. Isn't that metal clip/piece attached to the spring that is seen in the picture?

Hope you get my point.

Anurag.

[neel911]

Avi,

I'm just loving the details you add to your ownership report. There is just so much of detailing.

I'm glad the Empress is living up in most areas.

One suggestion, please try to get some alternative for the screen protector on piano black console and the ones around ORVM. The ones you have do not do justice at all and I'm sure the Empress would not be happy to have them. Also, there are lot of place for dirt (not just air bubbles) to sneak in and they would keep on scratching the surface so please be careful on that front.

The plastic on the carpet which Honda provides is very thin and will come off very soon (it might have already at few places). Just place some door mat for now till you get the floor/NOMAD mats.

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Horns are strictly average. As was with the 3rd gen City, it might suffice for sparsely-filled lanes/roads, but for crowded B2B traffic, an upgrade is highly recommended. All variants of the 2014 City come with dual horns, and they are not impressive.

A set of Hella twins should be great. It is on my to-do list.

Waiting period for any VX variant over here has jumped to 6 months now! Those who already got their City VX MTs are lucky. I myself was in line for the VX petrol but lack of VX MTs made me go for the V MT i-DTEC.
....

Thank you. Somehow was not convinced that the TD car we drove had dual horns. Will confirm in the next round(s)

With the new rule (or was it a court order?), somehow going for an aftermarket set of horns doesn't seem to be a good idea here in Bangalore. Wish Honda does take care of this soon. Bell & brakes are our primary "feature" requirement from any vehicle, irrespective of the wheels it has - thanks in no small part to the insane traffic.

The SE here voraciously suggested going for the V variant. So, yes, there is a definite intentional push to discourage VX buyers. Surprisingly V & Petrol variants are available within a couple of months!

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

That is not a wire assembly sir,

It is a metal bend that holds the wiper arm upwards when lifted. The larger the ring kind of piece that you see inside the wiper taller/perpendicular will the wiper be standing when lifted up. Isn't that metal clip/piece attached to the spring that is seen in the picture?

Thank you, my friend. I stand corrected.

This was not present in my Pegasus (3rd gen City) so I wasn't aware of it. I checked it out thoroughly in the morning - yes, it's like a semi-circular ring which keeps the wiper arm propped up.

I wonder why it was absent in my Pegasus, though.

Originally Posted by neel911

One suggestion, please try to get some alternative for the screen protector on piano black console and the ones around ORVM. The ones you have do not do justice at all and I'm sure the Empress would not be happy to have them. Also, there are lot of place for dirt (not just air bubbles) to sneak in and they would keep on scratching the surface so please be careful on that front.

The plastic on the carpet which Honda provides is very thin and will come off very soon (it might have already at few places). Just place some door mat for now till you get the floor/NOMAD mats.

Thank you, neel.

Even I don't like that screen film even one bit. But it was an amateur job by a mobile accessory guy so can't blame him for trying his best. This will just have to do until I find a good professional to cover those areas, since I am a bit alarmed from the reports in the official City thread about bits from the polished black areas coming off/peeling off + getting covered in scratches/smudges.

Yep, the plastic is of no use. I have already removed the paper mats and the plastic. Thankfully my kid hasn't been inside Empress too many times so the dirt is still out (I drive with my windows up all the time, except for startup ventilation).

Might get the mats job done once the General Elections are over (in our area the elections date is April 10th, which is day after tomorrow).

I need another help from you - should I go for the OEM Honda accessory PU seat covers (quoted at 8000/-) or from Autoform (U-Cheer/U-Sportz quoted at 11,190/-)? Real leather is out of the equation since the ladies of my family detest it.

Originally Posted by vinjosep

Thank you. Somehow was not convinced that the TD car we drove had dual horns. Will confirm in the next round(s)

With the new rule (or was it a court order?), somehow going for an aftermarket set of horns doesn't seem to be a good idea here in Bangalore. Wish Honda does take care of this soon. Bell & brakes are our primary "feature" requirement from any vehicle, irrespective of the wheels it has - thanks in no small part to the insane traffic.

The SE here voraciously suggested going for the V variant. So, yes, there is a definite intentional push to discourage VX buyers. Surprisingly V & Petrol variants are available within a couple of months!

They are dual, but woeful for heavy traffic.

I think it's a court ruling that you cannot have car horns such as pressure, multiple-sound emitting & musical (Refer to LINK for the same). Still, a good pair of Hellas will do wonders, without breaking any laws.

No idea why they are not encouraging customers to go for the VX MTs. For one, it's a cool lakh+ costlier than the V MTs, come with a bunch of extra features which make the VX MT not VFM at all (which means higher profit margins), and there's the whole showoff/feel-good factor associated with owning the highest variant of a car model. Maybe VX MTs are in short production right now and most of them are being diverted towards exports. We shall know once this initial furore for the 2014 City settles down.

I know for a fact that petrols are almost in ready stock - it's the diesels which have gone down in supply. Again no idea why - only reason which comes to mind is that maybe they are concentrating more on Amaze diesels right now, and after the Tapukara plant becomes fully functional in the next 3-4 months, we might see equal supply of City and Amaze diesels to the dealerships.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

after the Tapukara plant becomes fully functional in the next 3-4 months, we might see equal supply of City and Amaze diesels to the dealerships.

I doubt it, by then Honda will get into the Mobilio drive. I don't see the supply-demand equation for Honda getting balanced this year at all with the launches they have planned.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

This was not present in my Pegasus (3rd gen City) so I wasn't aware of it. I checked it out thoroughly in the morning - yes, it's like a semi-circular ring which keeps the wiper arm propped up.

we might see equal supply of City and Amaze diesels to the dealerships.

Welcome buddy.

Since that ring is connected to the spring, it retains the wiper at vertical when pulled for cleaning etc.

I am sure all cars have this but it is in difference shapes so one needs to check to know. Keep a check on the spring tension etc.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

we might see equal supply of City and Amaze diesels to the dealerships.

I hope Honda is not going the EcoSport way by wantedly creating a shortfall in supply so that the demand increases. What they fail to understand is that the customer doesn't have that patience to wait for life.

Anurag.