[BUSA]

Firstly i would like to say that i am not biased to any car. I seroiusly was so much in love with the Civic but sadly it has totally dissapointed, infact you can check out the Civic thread where it shows how much i was biased towards the Civic infact many people have gone to lenghts telling me how much do Honda pay you for publisizing their car, but after the test drive i surely felt what i wrote, and i now there are many Honda fans out there, who will pounce on me so hence the disclaimer in the first post.

Thanx guys for appreciating my efforts, and Dev for appreciating the pics.

Just one question, how do u sum it up with the Octavia RS?? Both have enough power for the roads here, and both can be called as 'performance cars' here too, so just curious

Well the engine of the Octy is better then the Civic, because when the turbo kicks in you feel a real kick in you, but the Civic hits 7100RPM and the noise is superb. But both these cars cant be comapared. The Octavia RS is just so much better, the handling, the brakes, performance, everything overall of the RS feels so much more better. The Octavia is cramped the Civic is not, as a drivers car the Octavia is so much better and so much ahead. I am sorry but Civic is no where near then Octavia RS. Civic is not a performance car, its more of a day to day cruiser with a jet engine. If only i could get a Lancer Cedia with a Civic engine that would be nice.

i expected this car to become straightaway the best car sold in India.

I too feel the same, but still its going to be and the mags are going to rave about it. You know these mags the newest car is the best is their strategy, but do read the aspects i mentioned, I am so sure they wont overlook those and then call me biased.

But even the OHC had bad rear seats. But it did sell.

It should have Lumbar and leather and then the seats would be so much better.

But somehow I coudn't digest many things you have said

PM me and ill try to clear them out, or rather it would be better to go for a test drive and experience the same. Once you drive a RS and then comapare it with a Civic you will feel what i felt.

And how is the all-round visibility?

All round visibilty is very good and you sit in a comanding position.

Did you check out the climate control?

Yes, it was some what complicated. You have to use buttons to switch on middle vents.

Is the civic equally good on these factors but let down compared to the price?

Price of the Civic is quite ok i guess its only costlier then the Cedia/Elantra and Basic Octavia. There is no competition between Civic and Cedia plainly because of HMs poor marketting strategy. Few people know about the Cedia and if its a Honda its a instant hit. Also the Cedia is quite a good car and it needs only good marketting. Its based on the EVO VIII(8)

About the civic Auto with lag

Autos do have lag and take time in changing with jerks with paddles but still the manual is a better buy, because the auto will consume more, cost more and still you dont have as much fun as you will in the manual.

Had a NHC and i was shocked to see the built quality of the Civic, The NHC, Accord, OHC had amazing built quality, and i use to swear by Honda for that, but i couldnot believe it and the pics tell you that.

Do I see the DOHC point I raised and the Bangkok trip of mine making some sense?

Also when torque is produced so late it becomes quite difficult in the City but in the highway you get the fun.

* The hood is open.

[BUSA]

Also the RS will be an RS. RS steering is very good, handling exceptional, a lot of kit and its dead stable at high speeds. RS is let down by only two factors, Interior room and Spares, otherwise it would be the pick of the segment, RS is a typical German car and cant be comapared to the Japanese Civic. I just hope they get the Laura RS at a reasonable price.

Civics expected FE will be around 9-10 which is the norm of this segment.

The main reason why i would not like to buy the Civic is because Honda has stripped her bad. The Octavia RS, Optra, Elantra all are so similar world wide. Only the RS is in a tune of 150bhp for India but look at the alloys of all these cars in any part of the world they are the same. Its because of people who keep buying Honda cars even after such defects that honda is taking advantage of us. If the Thai spec Asian Civic would have come i am so sure they would have not been any issue of handling, braking.

Can someone please send the link to this article to Honda so we can know why they strip their cars in India. I cant find the contact link to them or please send me the contact link. Thanx.

[MrBoombastic]

Originally Posted by BUSA

Firstly i would like to say that i am not biased to any car. I seroiusly was so much in love with the Civic but sadly it has totally dissapointed, infact you can check out the Civic thread where it shows how much i was biased towards the Civic infact many people have gone to lenghts telling me how much do Honda pay you for publisizing their car, but after the test drive i surely felt what i wrote, and i now there are many Honda fans out there, who will pounce on me so hence the disclaimer in the first post.

BUSA, that pay you guys was more for a few others (on the entire forum and not just the Civic thread... I do not lie about this as I stated this in that post on the Civic post too) than you and the only reason I said that is because fellow Team-BHPians matter to me... When a good friend from real life put a Nike swoosh on his car, I asked him how much did Nike pay you to screw up your paint job? Trust me, if I didn't like someone, I would rather praise them when they mess up to further make them a loser and make me look good...

Originally Posted by BUSA

Also when torque is produced so late it becomes quite difficult in the City but in the highway you get the fun..

True only when compared to the Corolla in it's segment (like you have rightly said, this car is not to be compared to a turbo charged one with a higher price tag), otherwise, this car is not bad to be dismissed. It will still be peppier than the others in it's segment leaving the Corolla aside.

Now, my friend, I am going to make a lengthy post on my views on the Civic, I hope you don't hate me for anything/ something I say in that post as by now, I think you know that I see you as a friend and not a foe. Also, ask Amit what kind of a guy I am if you doubt me on this... We have locked horns many a time on various threads, but he will vouch for the fact that I have always been an honest friend to him.

BTW, saw a pic of Mumbai flooded in the paper this morning... Hats off to you and auto enthusiasts like you... Good job!

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by BUSA

Also the RS will be an RS. RS steering is very good, handling exceptional, a lot of kit and its dead stable at high speeds.

And not to mention costs 15L on the road same as an Accord 2.4

Originally Posted by BUSA

The main reason why i would not like to buy the Civic is because Honda has stripped her bad. The Octavia RS, Optra, Elantra all are so similar world wide. Only the RS is in a tune of 150bhp for India but look at the alloys of all these cars in any part of the world they are the same. Its because of people who keep buying Honda cars even after such defects that honda is taking advantage of us. If the Thai spec Asian Civic would have come i am so sure they would have not been any issue of handling, braking.

The RS remember costs 15L not 11.6L as the Civic. If you really want to compare the Civic then please do it against the Rider version which doesn't have climate control, abs, ebd, alloys etc. and is priced similarly to the Civic.

And how can you compare the Optra to the Civic they are not even in the same league internationally. The Daewoo Lacetti/Chevrolet Optra/Suzuki Forenza is not a product that the European/American press easily compares to the new Civic and even if it does it loses out very badly. I would suggest you read more international material and especially focus on Reliability of Honda products over the past two to three decades worldwide before comparing them to Daewoo products.

Please get your facts right before you start crying hoarse about stripping the cars down. The Octavia/Laura are sold for such a premium here that it's actually shameful to see.

Rest of the arguments I will post tomorrow with my report.

[MrBoombastic]

I disagree with a few points that have been mentioned in this review, but everyone has a right to their opinion (let's not forget different people buy different cars for different reasons) and let's not forget, BUSA has actually driven the car to state what he has stated. Having said that, what the Civic has going for it are as follows...

1. The Honda name
2. The freshest car in it's segment
3. Maximum design cycle proof at the moment when compared to the other cars in its segment as it is a recent launch worldover... 4-5 years of peace. OFF TOPIC: Many a car available in the Indian market are due for a design cycle change around 2008... at least in the above 12lakhs OTR segment.
4. The digital speedometer and the paddle shift (the paddle shift wont be so much of a puller to most as the cockpit style design) are a whole new thing in the Indian market. See the Laura for example, even with the engine it's being sold with in India and it's OTR price, it is selling well for the goodies (hats off on the Laura's goodies Skoda... Job well done with just two major overlaps) and the Civic is very tempting at it's price.
5. Not many would be tempted by this or even know about this out there in the real world, but the drive by wire is a good thing... Just like with the current CRV and also the organ type pedals.
6. Respect/ snob value in its segment... The Civic will humble even the Corolla that humbled the other cars in it's segment on this count... To understand this, look beyond our forum in the real world... The answer is out there and even on our forum we discussed this point when the Laura was launched saying that almost 7/10 people would still buy an Accord. Like GTO said somewhere on this forum, even a Timex will tell you the time, but why do people want/ have Omegas?
7. Just like the Toyota Corolla, it will go on and on with very little maintenance to worry about and costs.
8. Depreciation - Like the Corolla or maybe even better than the Corolla on this, the Civic will not lose value like its on steroids as in the case of skoda petrols/ optras.... skoda petrols especially.
9. It will command the maximum resale value in it's class... No, I'm not claiming to be Nostradamus (even he goofed up), but mark my words on this.
10. If you're single and mingle with the hi funda babes to get a tingle... They will simply love the Civic over the other cars in it's segment... This works somewhat like how they see the Scorpio as cooler ride than the Innova... I hope that example makes sense. Sad bit here is they would even think of it as way more fun than a vRS which is priced at a very lil over 15 lakhs OTR chennai... Not all, but most.

11...............................FE - BEAT THIS in the Indian market where the petrol prices are high and sky rocketing Civic is da bomb like the Corolla... Corolla and Civic, let's pit you babes on this one, long since I've seen a good cat fight!

FAQ:
1. Boom, you talk so much, have you driven the Indian Civic?
A: Yes, and just so that I dont get accused of cutting and pasting again, I have fellow member neoranjit as proof. Drove it on 04th at around 1530hrs IST, but not for a very long drive... I drove the paddle shift one.

2. Boom, would you rate the Optra as a better car than the Civic?
A: No, never... The weekend is far away and so is the bottle of Belvedere for me to do that.

3. Boom, you're a biased poster, you must hate the Optra?
A: I am, since when? A few months back when Rudra Bhai said he drives an Optra during one of our telephonic conversations, I even asked him, what's wrong with an Optra? It's a cool car for it's price... There is a guy in our building who owns a brand new Optra and twice or thrice I've told him that I think he has a cool car. Lets not forget, it's the only car in it's segment that offers a sunroof... Do the Corolla and Civic offer you that? The Octavia vRS does, but then, it's more expensive when compared to an Optra. Mind you, I don't say the Optra is a good car only for the sunroof, it's cool with what other things it offers too... especially the upgraded Optras with more comfort goodies. I also like the looks of the Optra and one of my recent ex-gfs drives one (Lucky girl has an E class too... Some girls have all the luck!)

4. You say you've driven the car, what about the handling, is it better than the Optra?
A: Handling at what speeds? On what kind of roads?? In what traffic conditions??? Why not look for a vRS if handling is to be best???? ... One thing I can say, but before I state that, let me warn you that I've driven very little of both the cars... The Civic handles better than the Optra on any day.

5. How about the peppy bit? Is the Civic far behind when even compared to the Optra?
A: Why are you tempting me to get a vod? I've got to work tomorrow.... No, the Civic is more peppy when compared to the Optra, but then, none of these two cars are being sold as performance cars.... try the vRS for this. The Corolla somehow seems peppier at low speeds though, but, once the initial take-offs are done, they seem to be more or less the same... initial low speeds are the only worry if you compare it to a Corolla. Counter questions: Why are you not looking at a vRS if it's performance that you want? Why ask me so many questions, test drives are available and are free? Drive safe and have fun when you test drive the Civic.

6. Boom, what about the brakes on the Civic, I am scared now.
A: Any sensible person would be scared if the brakes on any car weren't good... But, get real here, the Civic has to fight head on with the Corolla India, you think a company like Honda would launch a car with crappy brakes when they have to kill a company like Toyota? The CRV, Accord and City are proof of this and don't forget, I've driven the Indian Civic. Why even take my word for it, go take a test drive.

7. Is the finish quality any good?
A: Please! Some say the Corolla's interiors are of poor quality, I've never had any problem or been subject to such remarks in the real world with them and they work well.... Some say the Octavia vRS armrest (optional to be added later) and hazard light button, fuel lid opener button and A/C controls are beyond crappy.... and so on. If you want better than what you're getting on any car, don't buy it and know that one car will always have something better than the car its pitted against and vice versa. I think most cars sold in India can do much better than what they are on this front. Would you say the C and E class are loaded with crappy stuff because of the electrical problems? Having said this, Civic should be offered with leather at least on the automatic and with foglamps as standard on both variants... 17-18000/- for ornamental foglamps... Damn! lol ... Personally, I dont have a problem with the Civic's finish apart from the fabric bit on the door trims.

8. Boom, in your opinion, would you say the Civic is a good buy?
A: If the 10 + 1 points I have mentioned make sense to you or matter to you.... There is no car better than the Honda Civic in this segment at the moment or at least for some time to come in the Indian market.

9. Boom, can you stop typing?
A: Sure, sorry to have bored you with my cut and paste, forgive me for being such a retard.

10. No wait! One last question... Why would someone buy a Civic or a Corolla or a Skoda or an Optra or an Elantra?
A: Let me put your bib on for you before I spoonfeed this last morsel to you... Different people buy different cars for different reasons... Ask the person who owns a particular car why he owns it, I'm sure there will be reasons... Not that thier reasons will make sense to you all the time and I know a few out there in the real world are really hollow in the head, but to each his own.

NOTE 1: This is the last post from me on this thread for some time at least

NOTE 2: If any of you want to know more about what I think of the Civic (especially if youre looking to buy one and if what I think makes sense to you) feel free to PM me.

NOTE 3: Feel free to disagree with me in a sensible way rather than an immature/ pointless way, for only if we all are honest about cars will we get better cars from the clever manufacturers who find cost cutting to be their universal hobby in India.

[quicksilver]

Originally Posted by iraghava

And not to mention costs 15L on the road same as an Accord 2.4

That's a very valid point... You cannot compare a Civic to an RS.

Originally Posted by iraghava

I would suggest you read more international material and especially focus on Reliability of Honda products over the past two to three decades worldwide before comparing them to Daewoo products.

Now my friend, the question is about the INDIAN version of the Civic compared to the Optra we get here. Why do we have to go by what an international magazine got to say??? Here we have a fellow T-BHPian sharing his personal experience. I would rather believe him.

That said, I would still love to test drive the car myself before I endorse the views of Busa because honestly, I still cannot believe Honda quality can be so low.

Busa, do you think it was possible that the Cars you test drove were not subjected to PDI? That would explain the brakes and handling part, if the alignment etc were not done yet. I am actually praying that this may be the case and a proper test drive will bring out the positives of the car... may be I am hoping for too much :(

I do agree with you however, that Honda should have provided all the goodies with the car, like Leather, Fog Lights, etc as standard. It is also very true that you can get bored of the Paddle Shift very easily and regret spending 77K on it later on.

Another very annoying feature is the built-in CD changer.... that means you will have absolutely no chance what so ever to have your custom ICE setup on the car... that sucks big time!!!

I am sad.....really sad......

[BUSA]

And how can you compare the Optra to the Civic they are not even in the same league internationally

I am quite aware of the international scene, and wouldnot have compared the Civic to the Optra had it been similar as the international model, but the indian stripped version is priced similar and is in the same segment and when we are comaparing in India then we are comaparing it according to the segment and specification laid down here.

Reliability of Honda products over the past two to three decades worldwide before comparing them to Daewoo products.

I dont doubt there reiabilty and fallen exhausts speak for themselves. However you being a Honda owner need not pounce on me just like that. You may find the Civic great after driving a City but drive all the D segments and i am sure your pick wont be the Civic.

And not to mention costs 15L on the road same as an Accord 2.4

The 2.4 costs 16L.

Rider version which doesn't have climate control, abs, ebd, alloys etc. and is priced similarly to the Civic.

The Rider version of the Skoda has ABS, EBD, Airbags. Also Trip Computer, Fog Lights, Lumbar Support which are all lacking in the Civic and the Skoda is cheaper and built better then the Civic and more powerful.

The Octavia/Laura are sold for such a premium here that it's actually shameful to see.

Arent Honda doing the same. Is the City Vtec with no ABS, Airbags wrorth at 8.6L OTR compared to a Aveo LT with ABS, Airbags at 7.8L both having 100bhp??

The Daewoo Lacetti/Chevrolet Optra/Suzuki Forenza is not a product that the European/American press easily compares to the new Civic

Because the Optra there and here are the same wheras the Civic here and there are not the same.

If you're single and mingle with the hi funda babes to get a tingle...

That was really coool

The thing is i am no saying the Civic is a bad car its not as good as people have made it out to be. Its just a notch better then the Corolla but could have been better.

Busa, do you think it was possible that the Cars you test drove were not subjected to PDI?

Yes, it didnot have its PDI done, after the exhaust feel the Sales guy said that the car had arrived just that morning and hence PDI was not done. Also since the car was run just 139 kms and it was heavy rains poor roads, i guess it might be a problem with that particular car and still hoping that these problems dont arrise with other Civics, i do plan to go for a test drive of the Civic some time later when they are done with the first service, because i really love that car but sadly it didnot live upto my expectations. I to couldnot believe Honda quality can be so low specially after having a NHC which performed beyound my expectations. The 6 cd in dash changers problem is that if CDs get stuck its difficult to remove them and you cant remove individually. Also had the car had lumbar and fogs i would have liked it more. Just imagine you go for a Civic then you add Sparcos (60k) + Fogs (18k) + 16 inchers OZ (1L) and that would come to around 14L with all the works, aint i better off with a vRS then?

Anywayz i guess i should stay away from this thread, you guys please test drive and come and i hope that you like the car so that i will be convinced that the model which i test drove was defective and when i again test drive her, she lives up to my expectations and i can buy her, because till September i have to wait as the black colour will arrive.

[MrBoombastic]

NOTE FROM THE SUPPORT TEAM -

PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE DEALT WITH SEVERELY ON TEAM-BHP.

The extent to which you have gone to in this attack has warranted a 3 Week BAN

[suman]

Originally Posted by Bomi

Lets call a spade a spade. I have done 15k kms in my RS; several times I have revved it into the red zone (it does not have a rev limiter). The exhaust has not fallen off nor has the turbo or the engine been cooked. When I stomp on the brake pedal it squeals/judders (ABS) to a stop in a STRAIGHT line, doesn't swish around. I am firmly convinced that Honda India cuts corners (drove a OHC for 3 years) - Honda may be a great product abroad, not here.

Read my post carefully....did I say that exhaust has fallen off because Busa has over-revved it?????? All I'm saying is that if Busa has been able to rev it up to the red line, someone else may have flown over a few bumps or rocks & scraped the rear end of the car and along with it, may have damaged the exhaust.

[devarshi84]

No offence to anyone but it surely looks like Honda lovers on the thread want to prove that Honda can never do anything wrong by fault or mistake.

Good for Busa that he included the Disclaimer in the first post.

FYI the skoda I took a test drive in some years ago had 47K on the odo. The sales person specially brought this car to show how skoda will drive after some years. The wear and tear on the car was graceful enough for this segment.

[goldie_malhotra]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

It ultimately looks to me that Honda boys on the thread want to prove that Honda can never do anything wrong by fault or mistake.

I believe that would be true for lancer/baleno/palio fans as well ??

Honda fans have got reason enough to wait for more evidence than a single test-ride (no offence, busa).

[adarsh76]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Don't really want to sound mean, but can't help getting a feeling that the review looks like its trying to prove a point. To be frank, with all the comparisons to the Optra, it sounds like a "my car is much better and comes at a much better price" kind of review. But then as the disclaimer says it is only the reviewer's opinion. I for one, would hold my horses till I hear other viewpoints.

I have not seen the Civic yet. But find this tough to digest.

One thing that did make a bad impression was the "bumper falling off" incident. Something not expected from Honda. Anyway, good review or otherwise and premium pricing notwithstanding, we all know that this is going to be a winner all the way and we can see quite some players falling by the wayside.

Do you remember me commenting about the Civic before it launched? I'd always believed except the looks Civic atleast wont be better than Corolla, Elantra and Optra.

[speedbuster]

Where is this thread heading? this was supposed to be a so called test drive of the civic, but some ppl are busy trying to prove mine is better than yours.
hell, its just one day since the civic was launched, and anti-honda ppl are already getting jitters

Originally Posted by devarshi84

No offence to anyone but it surely looks like Honda lovers on the thread want to prove that Honda can never do anything wrong by fault or mistake.

actually its the other way around, look at the "lengthy" posts above, you will knw who is trying to prove wat.

[Rtech]

I think we will soon have to put up a rule requesting a few people not to post on certain threads!

Ofcourse, that is my opinion only!

[ST7677]

Imagine my plight of seeing BUSA's post just a day after I dropped the cheque for booking HOnda Civic (though it is conditional and will be finalized only after my own test drive, lucky me)...

Meanwhile, I have been doing a detailed comparison between Honda Civic and Octavia 1.8 Rider (see another thread in What Car). And there are few things which I would like to highlight here....
(Pl read words carefully before pouncing)

- The build quality of Honda Civic is certainly not bad, it is the best in it's class, of course the Octavia is a class apart

- The visual Appeal wise Octavia is certainly not bad, it is amongst the best in it's class, but then Civic is a class apart

- Octavia 1.8T gives 6-7 mileage, where Civic should give 9-10. Add same power to weight ratio, Reliability, spare parts cost, and resale value and that is the reason why it will be the best seller in it;s segment. People are anyway tired of elevated corolla, and another Japanese option would be more than welcomed.

- There have been handling and braking issues reported in Civic in reviews from other parts of Asia. But then again the reviews claim that the braking improves over some time. And the 1.8S is positioned more as a family car and hence handling is more inclined towards comfort. Other countries have a 2.0S Sportier option specifically targeted at part enthusiasts!
Meanwhile, changing rubber to 205 should help (that is the std abroad).

- Octavia Rider is a base model, people have seen enough of it, and it is still more expensive than Civic (M/T). Even today, many common people haven;t even heard that brand. Also, most of their dealership really Sucks...!

- I have driven an 86000 km Octavia, with almost ZERO rattle and I thought it has probably done 10-15k km, till I saw the ODO. Along with the handling, that was the day I was converted to be a Skoda CAR fan

- I am an Octavia fan (my practical dream car is a Laura 2.0 TDI DSG with a tuning box - 170 BHP, which I would buy as soon as it is launched and I have change to spare) , but till then since I have limited resources Civic would be a good practical alternative to me... (here I am taking BUSA's review with a pinch of salt. Final decision would be after my own test drive, but then BUSA's inputs will give me specific areas to double check upon).


The choice for me is difficult because - I am a part enthusiast and a part practicle person (with limited resources)

Further, Let me thank BUSA and MrBoombastic - both your inputs have been extremely helpful in confusing me, and in turn will finally help in making more informed decision