BUSA's Review : Civic AT(Paddle) and MT Test Driven

sandeep108 · 10th July 2006, 12:52

Agree about exterior / driving position.
Interior - disagree about roof height - actually it is quite good, especially at rear. Agree about cheap upholstery - apparently Malaysian reviewer also complaining - looks like towel fabric. Dealer agreed to leather at reasonable cost.
Dash - only time will tell...
Stereo - I heard it, it is pretty ok. It also has mp3, wma and input for ipod, iriver, etc. Rear audio controls for the 'seth' without chance of losing remote, very nice touch. I hope I can disable the rear so that my son does not get control over the system...
Wheels...yes, but when I drove the car it was raining and mucky and wheels looked ok and not too dirty comparing other cars on the road. But yes, OHC much better. They could have improved looks/design.

Ultimately honda always about engine, gbox, handling and drive, which is where I think civic does quite well. Take your drive and see.

Edit: Do check the brakes - While they felt adequate, they could be better - many reviewers worldwide complained. However, they also said the brakes improved after some running. I tried on an extremely bumpy road - just to test them to the max, and there was some swerving, but then my ohc would have certainly fared worse. The test car had only done 70km, when I tested them.

ajmat · 10th July 2006, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeep108

.
Interior - disagree about roof height - actually it is quite good, especially at rear.

Talking about front only

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeep108

Dash - only time will tell...
Stereo - I heard it, it is pretty ok. It also has mp3, wma and input for ipod, iriver, etc. .

where was the input for this - could not find it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeep108

Wheels...yes, but when I drove the car it was raining and mucky and wheels looked ok and not too dirty comparing other cars on the road. .

Mud etc washes off, try caked brake dust !

[quote=sandeep108]
Ultimately honda always about engine, gbox, handling and drive, which is where I think civic does quite well. Take your drive and see.
QUOTE]
Agreed on this point

Additional point - whitefield honda have brought in enthu kids to demo the cars. Sales guys just sit at the back and watch TV. Kid jabbered through what was on the brochure - opposing wipers (I said, just like the amby! - that flummoxed him!). End of day, you get the attention unlike skoda and the salesmen have the serious buyers weeded out!

sandeep108 · 10th July 2006, 13:08

Quote:

Talking about front only

Hmmm...I am 5'9", did not notice it, will check next time. I remember I had cranked the seat height adjustment all the way up, but was ok for me.

Quote:

where was the input for this - could not find it ?

In their advt. as far as I can recollect. Their website mentions mp3/wma but no aux. So not too sure about the aux. Will check it next time. The trend is nowadays to include integrated audio - corolla, aveo, et. al. I admit civic will be very difficult to mod since it is part of dash. But it sounds better than my old blaupunkt in ohc which I spent quite a packet 5 years ago.

When I do put in leather, I will ask dealer to increase lumbar support for the front seats by a tad and additional bolster for under-thigh support if he can.

Shan2nu · 10th July 2006, 14:09

Quote:

Wheels- high profile blunts sleekness - Looked cheap, wheel finish is appalling, th ohc vtec wheels re anyday better

Yup, the wheels don't look all that great. But, the first thing an enthusiast would do is go in for 16" wheels. This will give the tyres, it's low profile look.

Only sad thing is, the Euro Civic looks way more sporty than this one. Except the OHCs, none of the Hondas' sold here look sporty.

Quote:

Exterior: Stunning from the front. Rear looks like the previous Civic with new lights.

They've just repeated the mistake they did with the Accord. Stunning front with a boring rear.

Shan2nu

w 12 · 10th July 2006, 14:12

Some clarifications on paddle shift..

Can it be used for engaing lower gears , for engine braking during journeys downhill ?

Can the logic of the Autobox be overridden for a pure manual feel ? ( e.g. powering into corners)

deepakhon · 10th July 2006, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Only sad thing is, the Euro Civic looks way more sporty than this one. Except the OHCs, none of the Hondas' sold here look sporty.

Shan2nu

Agree with you on both counts. In my opinion, the present city, civic and accord more or less follow similar frontal treatment, though there are subtle differences. Looks like Honda is going the Skoda way.

sandeep108 · 10th July 2006, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by w 12

Some clarifications on paddle shift..

Can it be used for engaing lower gears , for engine braking during journeys downhill ?

Can the logic of the Autobox be overridden for a pure manual feel ? ( e.g. powering into corners)

As to your first question, yes, it can be used for engine breaking. However, this auto tranny already has grade logic control. So it will hold gears both during ascent and descent. I tested it on a decline (I was too busy thrashing it up the incline) and it held the gear on it's own in 'D' mode.

Second question: Yes, absolutely. You can trundle around in 1st if you so like. Instead of normal auto having D, D3, D2, etc. this simply has D and S. In S mode, it is sporty gear changing, i.e. it will change at higher revs (at cost of fuel economy). It will do this auto, unless you choose to touch one of the paddles. Then it is up to you to change the gear. You can remain in 2nd for your corners or incline. It is also controlled, i.e. you cannot change to 5th say at 30km/h or to 1st at 70km/h. Since there is no clutch, you get very smooth / rapid gear shifting.

a4_attitude · 10th July 2006, 16:44

had a test drive yesterday! agree and disagree to some of the views above i still give 8/10 and yes dashboard is way large, one has to drive by idea.
am sure it will look gudd afr some exterior modifications
Cheers
Wadhwa Ajay

w 12 · 10th July 2006, 17:56

Sandeep..

thx for the clarifications..

Is there a digital display to indicate the gear engaged as well?( in paddle shift mode)

ST7677 · 10th July 2006, 18:08

Ok here is my test drive...
After reading this forum I had made an elaborate checklist and I was fortunate enough to get a long Test drive (about 50km - Auto & Manual combined) to check each and every point in detail. I was assisted by a friend, my wife, and my daughter (2yr old) all tightly strapped up in their seats. + the sales guy.

So here are my observation on each topic...

Read: Rear sear comfort level not good
My Comments: Not true, it is only second to Optra in it's segment. Three people can comfortably sit behind. Not sure if lumbar support can be added later, if it can be than it will become even better.

Read: Flat floor does not do much
My Comments: False, we had three people sitting behind and the member in between really felt the difference enough to highlight to me that the rear floor is flat...

Read: Opposite wipers are just crap
My Comments: Not exactly, there is not much gain for driver here, the blind spots in the corner are small. But it makes quiet a positive difference for the front passenger. No big +ve or -ve deal here.
Note: I just poured water and checked this, in real life rain situation it may be different...

Ride
My Comments: Pretty good, I tested the car on a bad patch one way at 55kmph and other way at 20kmph. The big profile tyres are quite helpful here and the ride was very decent.

Handling
My Comments: Much much better than Corolla and Optra. Next only to Octavia RS. Cornering abilities are quiet good but again I felt that the low profile wider tyres will make it better.

Braking
This is one area of dissappointment. With ABS, EBD & BS I had very high expectations, which were not met. Over all braking was compared to others in the segment and nothing great. The ABS makes loud noise when pressed hard, but there were absolutely no skids. The car maintained composure and straight line in an 100km - 0km hard braking.
Next I tried hard braking while turning and did a 70km - 0km. This time I felt little nervous that I will go off track, but fortunately I didn;t. Not sure how to compare this with other cars, as I never tried this before

Over all I feel that increasing the width of the rubber will improve the braking efficiency.

Engine
Engine is peppy above 2000 RPM and makes you grin about 4000 RPM but then only upto 6k

Paddle shifts
Nice goodies, upshift is completely manual, but downshift happens automatically as speed reduces. Transition between gears are very smooth.
Though I am used to a manual, I found the Auto to be very comfortable and hence decided to go for the Auto version. THought it is not very good on throttle response and there is a delay in engine RPM transalation into torque.
Expected FE - 9-10 kmpl

Manual Gearbox
Manual gearbox is again very smooth, And the car really responses well to the throttle - this is the car for true enthusiasts (not the auto one, inspite of paddle shifts)!
Expected FE - 10-11 kmpl

Horn sounds really bad - this is the second glitch.

Wheels
I am disappointed, preview alloys were much better. You can;t upsize them as they will void the warrenty., but rubber width can be increased.

Is it recommended to move to 205 or 215 rubber, how much FE will be sacrificed? Since I have already opted for Auto version (which means 10% less FE) I am not sure if I should change the tyres. Please advice.

I was comparing between Octavia and Civic and after the test drive I confirmed my booking for Civic...

So I am putting my money where my mouth is...
Yes one change that has happened is that initially I voted for Manual (based on some reviews) but after the test drive I am actually buying an Auto (90% for auto comfort and 10% for Paddle brakes)

unknown · 10th July 2006, 18:30

ST7677
Nice review ,Btw wht's the expected delivery date ? is there any waiting period ? & How's the A/c ?

sandeep108 · 10th July 2006, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by w 12

Sandeep..

thx for the clarifications..

Is there a digital display to indicate the gear engaged as well?( in paddle shift mode)

Yes. On the lower right of the tach. This is another gripe. It should have been up there with the speedo.

sandeep108 · 10th July 2006, 18:47

Very nice review ST7677. Almost echoes my exact feelings after I today drove the manual also around familiar roads. I would like to add:

The gear lever in the manual is at a very odd placement, somewhat high and to the front, which feels quite weird. Somehow the auto lever did not feel that odd at all.

I got quite a bit of knocking sometimes as well as notchy gear shifting, which never happened in the AT or in my ohc. Maybe the somewhat higher gearing in 2nd/3rd and lower speed did contribute, but in my ohc even in 5th at 35km/h there is no knocking (I can even take off at 2nd), just a bit of vibration.

The pickup is certainly great in the manual over the auto, but neither is a slouch. Considering I am growing old and lazy and should not drive as fast as I do, I may just opt for the auto, in spite of poorer fe/pickup since it is one of the best AT in its class. I anyway expect to be in D mode 80% of the time, which is pretty adequate considering our road conditions.

Edit: Even though dealer claims MT gave fuel economy of 11.5 on their test car and AT expected to give 2km/l less, i.e. 9.5, I am quite sceptical. I still estimate a notch below ST7677 figures - 8-9 for AT in city and 12-14 highway and 9-10 for MT in city and 13-14 on highway.

ST7677 · 11th July 2006, 10:08

I had tentatively booked (read Blocked) it much before the launch itself, so delivery is expected in first batch - by end of July/early August.
A/C is very powerful, chills immediately. But Bangalore is not very hot these days... So some one from Delhi should comment on this...

Yesterday, I was asked to process the finance, so it can be earlier also

There is a huge waitlist now.

sandeep108 · 11th July 2006, 10:20

Regarding the aux input, it is available as an accessory - typical honda style, nothing less than 5 figures for a couple of plugs and wire... The cost of accessories are quite scandalous, but then again, it comes pretty much loaded so no need for much except the anti-corrosion/teflon/mats, etc. bits. I only feel honda could have upped the price a bit - by about 10-15k - and provided fog lamps. Anybody - especially in Delhi - who wants them will definitely think about alternatives since as accessories, set of rear and front are 30k+. But then one can always simply put in taiwanese/chinese stuff for 5k - even dealers will offer. Well maybe in next model upgrade in 6-12 months we will see HID/fogs as standard for total 20k+

Yes, I do believe dealers are claiming long waiting list now. But again hype or reality? There was no problem in ohc but huge problems in nhc initially. So maybe in a few weeks everything will settle down for civic as well.

View Poll Results: Which Version would you prefer
Manual	88	36.21%
Paddle Shifting	99	40.74%
I wont buy the Civic	56	23.05%
Voters: 243. You may not vote on this poll

10th July 2006, 12:52	#91
sandeep108 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,050 Thanked: 302 Times	Agree about exterior / driving position. Interior - disagree about roof height - actually it is quite good, especially at rear. Agree about cheap upholstery - apparently Malaysian reviewer also complaining - looks like towel fabric. Dealer agreed to leather at reasonable cost. Dash - only time will tell... Stereo - I heard it, it is pretty ok. It also has mp3, wma and input for ipod, iriver, etc. Rear audio controls for the 'seth' without chance of losing remote, very nice touch. I hope I can disable the rear so that my son does not get control over the system... Wheels...yes, but when I drove the car it was raining and mucky and wheels looked ok and not too dirty comparing other cars on the road. But yes, OHC much better. They could have improved looks/design. Ultimately honda always about engine, gbox, handling and drive, which is where I think civic does quite well. Take your drive and see. Edit: Do check the brakes - While they felt adequate, they could be better - many reviewers worldwide complained. However, they also said the brakes improved after some running. I tried on an extremely bumpy road - just to test them to the max, and there was some swerving, but then my ohc would have certainly fared worse. The test car had only done 70km, when I tested them. Last edited by sandeep108 : 10th July 2006 at 12:59.
	() Thanks

10th July 2006, 14:12	#95
w 12 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 402 Thanked: 26 Times	Some clarifications on paddle shift.. Can it be used for engaing lower gears , for engine braking during journeys downhill ? Can the logic of the Autobox be overridden for a pure manual feel ? ( e.g. powering into corners)
	() Thanks

10th July 2006, 16:44	#98
a4_attitude BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 508 Thanked: 101 Times View My Garage	had a test drive yesterday! agree and disagree to some of the views above i still give 8/10 and yes dashboard is way large, one has to drive by idea. am sure it will look gudd afr some exterior modifications Cheers Wadhwa Ajay
	() Thanks

10th July 2006, 17:56	#99
w 12 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 402 Thanked: 26 Times	Sandeep.. thx for the clarifications.. Is there a digital display to indicate the gear engaged as well?( in paddle shift mode)
	() Thanks

10th July 2006, 18:08	#100
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Ok here is my test drive... After reading this forum I had made an elaborate checklist and I was fortunate enough to get a long Test drive (about 50km - Auto & Manual combined) to check each and every point in detail. I was assisted by a friend, my wife, and my daughter (2yr old) all tightly strapped up in their seats. + the sales guy. So here are my observation on each topic... Read: Rear sear comfort level not good My Comments: Not true, it is only second to Optra in it's segment. Three people can comfortably sit behind. Not sure if lumbar support can be added later, if it can be than it will become even better. Read: Flat floor does not do much My Comments: False, we had three people sitting behind and the member in between really felt the difference enough to highlight to me that the rear floor is flat... Read: Opposite wipers are just crap My Comments: Not exactly, there is not much gain for driver here, the blind spots in the corner are small. But it makes quiet a positive difference for the front passenger. No big +ve or -ve deal here. Note: I just poured water and checked this, in real life rain situation it may be different... Ride My Comments: Pretty good, I tested the car on a bad patch one way at 55kmph and other way at 20kmph. The big profile tyres are quite helpful here and the ride was very decent. Handling My Comments: Much much better than Corolla and Optra. Next only to Octavia RS. Cornering abilities are quiet good but again I felt that the low profile wider tyres will make it better. Braking This is one area of dissappointment. With ABS, EBD & BS I had very high expectations, which were not met. Over all braking was compared to others in the segment and nothing great. The ABS makes loud noise when pressed hard, but there were absolutely no skids. The car maintained composure and straight line in an 100km - 0km hard braking. Next I tried hard braking while turning and did a 70km - 0km. This time I felt little nervous that I will go off track, but fortunately I didn;t. Not sure how to compare this with other cars, as I never tried this before Over all I feel that increasing the width of the rubber will improve the braking efficiency. Engine Engine is peppy above 2000 RPM and makes you grin about 4000 RPM but then only upto 6k Paddle shifts Nice goodies, upshift is completely manual, but downshift happens automatically as speed reduces. Transition between gears are very smooth. Though I am used to a manual, I found the Auto to be very comfortable and hence decided to go for the Auto version. THought it is not very good on throttle response and there is a delay in engine RPM transalation into torque. Expected FE - 9-10 kmpl Manual Gearbox Manual gearbox is again very smooth, And the car really responses well to the throttle - this is the car for true enthusiasts (not the auto one, inspite of paddle shifts)! Expected FE - 10-11 kmpl Horn sounds really bad - this is the second glitch. Wheels I am disappointed, preview alloys were much better. You can;t upsize them as they will void the warrenty., but rubber width can be increased. Is it recommended to move to 205 or 215 rubber, how much FE will be sacrificed? Since I have already opted for Auto version (which means 10% less FE) I am not sure if I should change the tyres. Please advice. I was comparing between Octavia and Civic and after the test drive I confirmed my booking for Civic... So I am putting my money where my mouth is... Yes one change that has happened is that initially I voted for Manual (based on some reviews) but after the test drive I am actually buying an Auto (90% for auto comfort and 10% for Paddle brakes)
	() Thanks

10th July 2006, 18:30	#101
unknown BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 439 Thanked: 23 Times	ST7677 Nice review ,Btw wht's the expected delivery date ? is there any waiting period ? & How's the A/c ?
	() Thanks

10th July 2006, 18:47	#103
sandeep108 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,050 Thanked: 302 Times	Very nice review ST7677. Almost echoes my exact feelings after I today drove the manual also around familiar roads. I would like to add: The gear lever in the manual is at a very odd placement, somewhat high and to the front, which feels quite weird. Somehow the auto lever did not feel that odd at all. I got quite a bit of knocking sometimes as well as notchy gear shifting, which never happened in the AT or in my ohc. Maybe the somewhat higher gearing in 2nd/3rd and lower speed did contribute, but in my ohc even in 5th at 35km/h there is no knocking (I can even take off at 2nd), just a bit of vibration. The pickup is certainly great in the manual over the auto, but neither is a slouch. Considering I am growing old and lazy and should not drive as fast as I do, I may just opt for the auto, in spite of poorer fe/pickup since it is one of the best AT in its class. I anyway expect to be in D mode 80% of the time, which is pretty adequate considering our road conditions. Edit: Even though dealer claims MT gave fuel economy of 11.5 on their test car and AT expected to give 2km/l less, i.e. 9.5, I am quite sceptical. I still estimate a notch below ST7677 figures - 8-9 for AT in city and 12-14 highway and 9-10 for MT in city and 13-14 on highway. Last edited by sandeep108 : 10th July 2006 at 18:51.
	() Thanks

11th July 2006, 10:08	#104
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	I had tentatively booked (read Blocked) it much before the launch itself, so delivery is expected in first batch - by end of July/early August. A/C is very powerful, chills immediately. But Bangalore is not very hot these days... So some one from Delhi should comment on this... Yesterday, I was asked to process the finance, so it can be earlier also There is a huge waitlist now. Last edited by ST7677 : 11th July 2006 at 10:10.
	() Thanks

11th July 2006, 10:20	#105
sandeep108 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,050 Thanked: 302 Times	Regarding the aux input, it is available as an accessory - typical honda style, nothing less than 5 figures for a couple of plugs and wire... The cost of accessories are quite scandalous, but then again, it comes pretty much loaded so no need for much except the anti-corrosion/teflon/mats, etc. bits. I only feel honda could have upped the price a bit - by about 10-15k - and provided fog lamps. Anybody - especially in Delhi - who wants them will definitely think about alternatives since as accessories, set of rear and front are 30k+. But then one can always simply put in taiwanese/chinese stuff for 5k - even dealers will offer. Well maybe in next model upgrade in 6-12 months we will see HID/fogs as standard for total 20k+ Yes, I do believe dealers are claiming long waiting list now. But again hype or reality? There was no problem in ohc but huge problems in nhc initially. So maybe in a few weeks everything will settle down for civic as well.
	() Thanks