[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Got me wondering - the Crysta makes you completely depress the clutch to start (I had even cribbed about it in my ownership report). There is almost no play; if you are even a millimeter off, it will not start.

In that scenario, if you are 'shifting at the wrong RPM' then perhaps you have set up your seat wrong?

Hey Sridhu clutch was the other culprit. As you mentioned unless you depress the clutch completely shifting to 1 and 2nd is notchy. However even after this I used to have difficulty and that's when I altered shifting RPM. I recently took it to Mysore and shifts were quite smooth.
Another thing I noticed is a feeble knacking sound when you completely depress the Clutch. I complained about this during first service and me along with SA verified 2 more crysta ,both had gave same sound. Are you hearing similar sound in your car?

[sridhu]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Another thing I noticed is a feeble knacking sound when you completely depress the Clutch. I complained about this during first service and me along with SA verified 2 more crysta ,both had gave same sound. Are you hearing similar sound in your car?

Cant say I have. Tried it in my car, but dont think I heard it.


Another update:

The car is going back to Nandi Toyota to get the rotors replaced under warranty. There is clear shuddering when the brakes are pressed and since the rotors have already been skimmed, they have to be replaced.

Hopefully, this will fix the shuddering/ wobbling issue once & for all

[sridhu]

Not quite 30k yet but an update nonetheless!

What happened is heart warming and disturbing at the same time. Read on:

The steering vibration at 110kmph returned. This time, it felt like it was a wheel balancing issue. Since I was going on a 2000 km coastal drive, I decided to get the wheel balanced at the dealer, even though it was only 28.5k km on the clock.

Omkar, at Nandi Toyota, advised doing only the wheel balancing and getting the 30k service done after the trip. Accordingly, I sent the car two-three days prior to the trip for wheel balancing.

When the car went to Nandi Toyota, Kudlu gate, Omkar happened to pass by. He heard the car and told my driver "Something is wrong with the engine sound. Wait. Let me get the service adviser." When the service adviser came he also agreed that something did not sound right with the car and that Toyota needed to hear it and suggest a way forward.

Omkar called me and told me about it. I agreed to leave the car with him until the day before the journey. When the day arrived, he told me that Toyota had not completed the investigation and wanted more time. The issue was serious enough that they did not feel it was advisable for me to drive the car.

I reminded him about the trip and he offered me a loaner car - either an Innova or an automatic Altis. Took the Altis as I figured that the Innova would be beat up!

They kept the car for almost 12 days (since I had the loaner, was not too much of an impact) and returned the Crysta after extensive replacement of engine parts.

They replaced:

- Engine Gasket kit
- Seal Packing
- Coolant
- Chain Sub-assembly # 1
- Sprocket Crankshaft

All were replaced under warranty.

The cause was told as "A timing belt issue". Apparently the timing belt guide had worn out prematurely causing noise and engine inefficiency leading to very high NVH. The symptom was abnormal engine noise. I thought that the car was louder than normal (my driver said he thought so too) but put it down to the shift to a Petrol Jazz from the Duster.

They also told me one other car had been fixed for the same issue under warranty in Bangalore.

What I really liked:

• Nandi Toyota's, in particular Omkar's, handling of the situation. I liked that he cared enough to notice an out-of-norm engine sound and take it seriously.
• Really speaking, he need not have given me a loaner car. At least it is not the norm in India for this segment of cars. Particularly when he knew that will be taken on a 2000km trip immediately.
• At all times, he kept me informed, pro-actively.
• Kudos to a text book example of excellent customer service.

What discomfited me:

• The sheer random chance involved in detecting the issue.
• While they may have still noticed the issue when the car came for service, somehow I doubt that. Most people who receive cars are not very technical. They barely understand issues told to them. This is not a Toyota issue; it is the same for all manufacturers in my experience.
• The seriousness of the issue. My previous Innova ran for 2,500,000 Km with no, repeat NO, issues. This has had 2 warranty replacement issues already - the front brake assembly and now the timing belt/ crankshaft assembly.
• If Toyota felt that I should not drive with the issue present, I shudder to think what would have happened.
• The symptom - Toyota engines on the Innova have always been noisy. I am sure now I will start seeing non-existent ghosts in the engine sound!
• They seem to have skimmed the rotor again to fix the wobbling. That is not in the least reassuring as they replaced it under warranty less than 10k km ago.

The bullet-proof reputation for reliability of the Toyota Innova platform has been tarnished but I am very happy with the dealer's, and Toyota's, handling of the issue.

I am sure that the timing issue is not very wide spread but the wobbling issue bothers me no end.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sridhu

What I really liked:

• Nandi Toyota's, in particular Omkar's, handling of the situation. I liked that he cared enough to notice an out-of-norm engine sound and take it seriously.
• Kudos to a text book example of excellent customer service.

Which Nandi Toyota service do you use ? I tried Ravindu Toyota, Rajaji Nagar and experience was nothing short of pathetic!

Originally Posted by sridhu

The bullet-proof reputation for reliability of the Toyota Innova platform has been tarnished but I am very happy with the dealer's, and Toyota's, handling of the issue.

I am sure that the timing issue is not very wide spread but the wobbling issue bothers me no end.

Surely, the bullet proof reliability has taken a beating on the Crysta! The Etios felt so much more peaceful to own. On the crysta, I fear that my 17" tyres can burst any time. More details here. And I'm even worried if my brake disks would go bad if I brake sharply. Now, I need to keep a watch on the engine sound as well. You can have all the electronics and gimmicks, but if fundamentals are not strong, all the electronic gimmicks are good for nothing. Crysta is still not fundamentally sorted. I hope, Toyota takes the effort and sort it out before it gets out of hand.

[samabhi]

Originally Posted by sridhu

What I really liked:

• Nandi Toyota's, in particular Omkar's, handling of the situation. I liked that he cared enough to notice an out-of-norm engine sound and take it seriously.
• Really speaking, he need not have given me a loaner car. At least it is not the norm in India for this segment of cars. Particularly when he knew that will be taken on a 2000km trip immediately.
• At all times, he kept me informed, pro-actively.
• Kudos to a text book example of excellent customer service.

What discomfited me:

• The sheer random chance involved in detecting the issue.
• While they may have still noticed the issue when the car came for service, somehow I doubt that. Most people who receive cars are not very technical. They barely understand issues told to them. This is not a Toyota issue; it is the same for all manufacturers in my experience.
• The seriousness of the issue. My previous Innova ran for 2,500,000 Km with no, repeat NO, issues. This has had 2 warranty replacement issues already - the front brake assembly and now the timing belt/ crankshaft assembly.
• If Toyota felt that I should not drive with the issue present, I shudder to think what would have happened.
• The symptom - Toyota engines on the Innova have always been noisy. I am sure now I will start seeing non-existent ghosts in the engine sound!
• They seem to have skimmed the rotor again to fix the wobbling. That is not in the least reassuring as they replaced it under warranty less than 10k km ago.

The bullet-proof reputation for reliability of the Toyota Innova platform has been tarnished but I am very happy with the dealer's, and Toyota's, handling of the issue.

I am sure that the timing issue is not very wide spread but the wobbling issue bothers me no end.

Sorry to hear about this sridhu, but very glad that it was identified by Omkar just at the right time. I completely agree with you about the exemplary customer service of Omkar at Nandi Toyota, Kudlu Gate. Have experienced it personally and after a series of unpleasant experiences with other personnel at that service centre, Omkar came to my rescue to actually understand the different problems in my car and get them rectified. But it's also unfortunate that others don't share the same level of zeal as Omkar does and he personally can't look into each and every car that comes there. Now when I drop my car for service at Nandi Toyota, I talk to Omkar first, make sure that he gives the necessary instructions to the SA for the work that needs to be carried out.

About the bullet proof reliability of Toyota, I think these issues are seen among the first batch of cars that were delivered. Don't see else where these issues cropping up with the new cars apart from the Tyre Burst issue on the 17" again. Omkar himself told me once that Toyota has changed certain parts (spare parts sourced from different vendors) after the initial feedback. Ex : Driver seat tracks are from a different vendor now when compared to the ones that are seen in the initial batches.

For the steering wobbling issue, please see if you can get the brake pads changed for the front tyres.
I experienced the same problem on my car even after changing the discs under warranty. When I dropped the car for 30k service last month, I spoke with Omkar and he suggested to get the brake pads replaced as there was only 3mm thickness left. They skimmed the discs too and I didn't feel any vibration after that in two long trips. He also said that if it returns back, they will change the rotors under warranty. That bothers me a bit, but I am glad that there is someone like Omkar who can listen and act upon it.

[Turbanator]

The cause was told as "A timing belt issue"

I believe they will have some circular, normally Toyota technicians are not used to noting and addressing sounds from engines that too on new vehicles. I also doubt these can be 2 isolated cases and there might be more or they might issue a soft recall. They produce Diesel engines here in India now and in process of indigenisation there might be some issue with a component supplier.

Your experience of getting a loaner and overall way of handling is definitely a plus but thought of opening a new engine on a Toyota is really worrisome and let's hope this remains isolated case.

[sridhu]

30k Service update

Got the 30k service done. Total cost was 13k
Had continued with Synthetic oil.
The killer is the bloody tax! Almost 30%

Complaints given:
- gear shifting notchy: The shift was not as smooth between gears as it used to be
- Rattle from door
- ‎Rattle from seat belt height adjuster - rhs
- ‎Driver seat lean adjustment lever loose
- ‎5 wheel rotation
- Change AC filter
- Change Air filter
- ‎don't clean glass inside
- ‎windscreen rubber boot coming off

Post Service Impressions
- Gear shift - they have just lubricated the lever joints & cable. I feel the issue is with the clutch but they do not think so. They seem to have a thing against noodle mats - 3 different people told me not to use them. THey also said that may be the clutch is not getting completely engaged due to the mat and hence the shift is notchy.

I was surprised at that - I have had the mat from day 1 and never faced an issue. Showed the SA that the clutch is not getting fouled on the mat.

Gear shift issue status: slightly better but still not butter smooth

- NVH: Seems to be more slient post the warranty fix and the replacement of oil. Could just be "wallet driven upgrade"

- DId not have the spare lever for the seat push back. This 'problem' has been there for 20k km, now!

- Rattles were addressed via lube

- Both AC & Air filter were very dirty. Replaced

- Windscreen boot - ignored!

- Despite instructions not to clean the insides of the glass, they had cleaned it. Spent 20 minutes back at home to clear their oily smudges!

- Apparently the front discs were at 7.5 mm & the rear brake liner at 3 mm


Net-net, am reasonably happy. Seems to work fine. Am yet to take it up beyond 110 kmph and verify that the steering wobble is gone.

The service receipts:



The wheel alignment report:


They have claimed that 5 wheel rotation has been done. How does one verify that?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Total cost was 13k
Had continued with Synthetic oil.
The killer is the bloody tax! Almost 30%

I saw an ad in Nippon Toyota where they showed how spare parts prices came down post the GST implementation. So, the net effect would have been the same. Logically this is what should happen with GST. Bring down the cost and hence the price of the spare and then the tax increases. The net should almost remain the same or in some cases the prices come down, if GST is treated in its true spirit by manufacturers.

But, with regards to labour the net effect would have gone up for sure because the labour cost cannot be brought down with GST.

Here are the price differences to Toyota spares pre and post GST implementation. Most of the spares seems to have reduced in the net price including the taxes post the GST.

Originally Posted by sridhu

They seem to have a thing against noodle mats - 3 different people told me not to use them. THey also said that may be the clutch is not getting completely engaged due to the mat and hence the shift is notchy.

I was surprised at that - I have had the mat from day 1 and never faced an issue. Showed the SA that the clutch is not getting fouled on the mat.

Toyota is against any mat that comes near the ABC pedals. I had lack of power issue with the Liva during the initial days and the root cause was that the A pedal was getting blocked by the mats.

For the same reason, when I installed the 3m nomad mats on the crysta, I had to literally fight with the 3m dealership to cut the mat halfway similar to the stock Toyota mat. I also asked them to install welcrow like materials on the bottom of the mat to prevent the mats from moving around.

I'll highly recommend keeping the mat size in the driver side almost the same as the stock Toyota mats and also do something to ensure that it doesn't slip under the ABC Pedals for safety reasons. Refer the famous Toyota mat recall

Originally Posted by sridhu

- NVH: Seems to be more slient post the warranty fix and the replacement of oil. Could just be "wallet driven upgrade"

Which warranty fix are you referring to ? Was it a proactive replacement from Toyota ?

Originally Posted by sridhu

- DId not have the spare lever for the seat push back. This 'problem' has been there for 20k km, now!

Can you elaborate on this issue ?

Originally Posted by sridhu

- Windscreen boot - ignored!
- Despite instructions not to clean the insides of the glass, they had cleaned it. Spent 20 minutes back at home to clear their oily smudges!

Which dealership did you try this time ? I would recommend that you mention it explicitly every time so that they get a 'real feedback' whenever they do such crappy job. And I would recommend that you escalate this to Toyota as well.

Originally Posted by sridhu

They have claimed that 5 wheel rotation has been done. How does one verify that?

I normally get my alignment and wheel rotation done outside for all my cars. With the Etios, I rarely had to alignment though because the alignment remained intact for most of its running. But, with the Crysta's weight and complexities involved, I might have to get back to the habit of doing alignment.

One idea would be to do some sort of tag on the tyres/alloys ( like numbering it 1 to 5 ) and then remember the positions of 1 to 5 before the service and then validate it after the service. I'm planning to do this with the Crysta.

[Vulken Auto]

Originally Posted by amalji

One idea would be to do some sort of tag on the tyres/alloys ( like numbering it 1 to 5 ) and then remember the positions of 1 to 5 before the service and then validate it after the service. I'm planning to do this with the Crysta.

Originally Posted by sridhu

They have claimed that 5 wheel rotation has been done. How does one verify that?

Please check your user manual , your tire info is clearly written like FR,RR,FL,RL,SF.

[sridhu]

Originally Posted by amalji

I saw an ad in Nippon Toyota where they showed how spare parts prices came down post the GST implementation. So, the net effect would have been the same.<snip>

I have given up on GST! My impression is that prices have generally gone up in all sectors.

Originally Posted by amalji

Which warranty fix are you referring to ? Was it a proactive replacement from Toyota ?

Can you elaborate on this issue ?

I had mentioned in an earlier post where they did not like the sound of the engine and replaced timing belt, crankshaft gear wheel etc under warranty

Originally Posted by amalji

Which dealership did you try this time ? I would recommend that you mention it explicitly every time so that they get a 'real feedback' whenever they do such crappy job. And I would recommend that you escalate this to Toyota as well.

Ravindu Toyota, Kudlu Gate, Amalji. Am quite comfortable with them

I have been telling all dealers not to clean glass surfaces on the inside for over 15 years now. Sometimes they follow & sometimes they dont.

Basically they re-use dirty microfibre cloth and that causes the problem. I could be more finicky than normal too.

Originally Posted by amalji

I normally get my alignment and wheel rotation done outside for all my cars. With the Etios, I rarely had to alignment though because the alignment remained intact for most of its running. But, with the Crysta's weight and complexities involved, I might have to get back to the habit of doing alignment.

One idea would be to do some sort of tag on the tyres/alloys ( like numbering it 1 to 5 ) and then remember the positions of 1 to 5 before the service and then validate it after the service. I'm planning to do this with the Crysta.

Prefer to get it done at the dealer - the price difference is not worth it. At least until the warranty runs out.

I am thinking something of that sort only. I am reasonably sure that they have rotated 4 tyres. 5? Who knows. Last time, they took the car back and did it. So, it is quite possible they have.

@Vulken Auto: Those are the manufacturing dates of the tyres. In mine, I ensured that all are the same month. So, that will not help.

[Vulken Auto]

I know its july first and second week. I was just giving you a hint for trace. For me it will be easy to trace @10k service

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by sridhu

30k Service update

Got the 30k service done. Total cost was 13k
Had continued with Synthetic oil.
The killer is the bloody tax! Almost 30%

Hey Sridhu few queries:
1. In the bill you posted, 4Lts of oil costs 3265 and 1ltr which is billed separately costs 2857. Whats the logic here? From the image posted by Amalji synthetic oil 5lts costs about 4500.
2. What is element oil cleaner and element oil refiner? I am aware that Air filter, oil filter and fuel filter might be replaced at 30K. While I see they have added oil filter, I don't see Air and fuel filter.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Hey Sridhu few queries:
1. In the bill you posted, 4Lts of oil costs 3265 and 1ltr which is billed separately costs 2857. Whats the logic here? From the image posted by Amalji synthetic oil 5lts costs about 4500.
2. What is element oil cleaner and element oil refiner? I am aware that Air filter, oil filter and fuel filter might be replaced at 30K. While I see they have added oil filter, I don't see Air and fuel filter.

Let me try to answer.

1) Total oil 7.5liters.
40units (4 liters) of oil in one batch and 35 (3.5 liters) units of oil in second batch. 1 unit is 100 mil. Probably just different batches and thus different part codes? Not sure. But rate is the same Rs.69.18.

2) Air cleaner and Air refiner you mean? One is engine air filter and the other is cabin (AC) air filter. Oil filter is listed separately.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I am aware that Air filter, oil filter and fuel filter might be replaced at 30K. While I see they have added oil filter, I don't see Air and fuel filter.

Toyota fuel filters used in the Crysta Diesel, old Innova Diesel and Etios Diesel are lifetime fuel filters which means that it needs to be replaced only when they get chocked and show the warning light on the dash. There is no regular replacements of fuel filter needed. for example, during my 1.25 lakh kms ownership of Etios Diesel, I had to replace my fuel filter only once ( at 72,000 kms ).

And I guess, the other questions are answered by @Sankar.

PS: For Toyota Petrol engines, the fuel filter replacement interval is normally 80,000 kms.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Complaints given:
- gear shifting notchy: The shift was not as smooth between gears as it used to be


Post Service Impressions
- Gear shift - they have just lubricated the lever joints & cable. I feel the issue is with the clutch but they do not think so. They seem to have a thing against noodle mats - 3 different people told me not to use them. THey also said that may be the clutch is not getting completely engaged due to the mat and hence the shift is notchy.

Gave my car for 10K service. The only complaint I had was notchy gearshifts particularly while shifting to 1st and 2nd. The notchy shifts are evident during cold starts and becomes smooth later on. The technician took a test drive and told me that there have been quite a few complaints about notchy gear shifts and Toyota is supposedly working on same. For now they will lubricate, and do a clutch bleeding probably. My gut feel says Toyota might offer 6 speed Manual going