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Old 12th January 2019, 00:32   #16
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Default Re: Driven: Lexus ES 300h

I donít understand why a luxury will be equipped by a CVT. I remember Audi did it for some of its cars and was quick to realize that was a bad decision. CVT is meant for under powered vehicles to attain better drivability when it is annoying when the car tries to shift gears when passing. It makes the owner feel the car is more powerful.

I recently drove the Nissan path finder that comes only in CVT. That was a disaster combination. Heavy body + under powered engine + CVT = Ultimate disaster.

I hate to say this, but there are a lot of people who does not care about transmission, torque, horse power, handling, etc. All they care about is the brand of the car, trunk capacity, leather seats and some electronics that car makers make you feel you are in a luxury car. Sure it will work for them.
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Old 12th January 2019, 08:02   #17
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I'm no minimalist, I like interesting squiggly lines and curves and a bit of flair, but even I think that Rekusasu (Lexus in Japanese ) can do with some minimalism.. you know, with headlights that form smooth joints and grilles that are more cohesive to the overall design. The interiors are where too much action is happening, on the one end you have Audi which makes a ultra-minimalist interior which seems to be made from a solid block of granite when the MMI folds away, yet is boring, and here with Lexus you have protrusions, squiggly lines, contrasting colors, wood-grain, interesting tacho and information screen etc.. a total assault on the vision sense.

If Luxury is the definition of a car, then that car has to be a bit stately, a bit old-school. If I were in the boardroom, I'd gun for Tadao Mori's outright dismissal,he ruined the neutral, even handsome profile of Lexus as cultivated by Yukihiko Yaguchi. The Japanese are actually known for minimalism and function over form, don't know what's happening with Honda and Toyota these days.
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Old 12th January 2019, 11:35   #18
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Originally Posted by Pontiac View Post
I donít understand why a luxury will be equipped by a CVT. I remember Audi did it for some of its cars and was quick to realize that was a bad decision. CVT is meant for under powered vehicles to attain better drivability when it is annoying when the car tries to shift gears when passing. It makes the owner feel the car is more powerful.
.
All for reasons of economy. The same basic transplant/architecture from the Prius/Camry is adapted for the Lexus. As I mentioned earlier, in grid locked places like Los Angeles or a typical Indian city. the limitations of the CVT do not really show up.

I know two people in the UK who switched to Lexus for tax reasons (lower emissions = low perquisite taxes), they hate the cars (they had Audi's and other German cars before that), the CVT blunts all the fun. They can't wait to switch when the lease period is up!
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Old 12th January 2019, 11:47   #19
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Originally Posted by Pontiac View Post
I donít understand why a luxury will be equipped by a CVT.
To best of my knowledge, and I am no auto expert, a CVT integrates better with a hybrid power train. Also the electric motor coming on and off automatically in a fraction of a second smoothens out the gear change making it virtually indiscernible to lay drivers like me.
Quote:
....but there are a lot of people who does not care about transmission, torque, horse power, handling, etc. All they care about is the brand of the car, trunk capacity, leather seats and some electronics that car makers make you feel you are in a luxury car. Sure it will work for them.
Your assessment is correct. They too are a significant and legitimate part of the market whose priorities need to be addressed too.
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Old 12th January 2019, 14:41   #20
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Originally Posted by Akshay1234 View Post

The new ES 300h comes with Auto Glide Control (AGC). When you lift off the throttle, the car starts decelerating, in a manner similar to coasting in neutral:
Can you please elaborate on Anti Glide Control?
How useful is this feature and its functionality.
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Old 12th January 2019, 15:09   #21
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Originally Posted by coolmind View Post
Can you please elaborate on Anti Glide Control?
How useful is this feature and its functionality.
From the press release:

Quote:
A new system called Auto Glide Control (AGC) has also been added to the ES 300h to improve efficiency when the car is in the Eco drive mode. AGC is designed to address the situation where drivers misjudge the drag imposed by regenerative brakes as they approach a stop and then move back and forth between the brake and accelerator pedals to compensate. With Auto Glide Control engaged, the ES will enter a ďcoastĒ mode when the driver releases the accelerator to allow the ES to slow at a more predictable rate and reduce the inefficiencies associated with repeated accelerator and brake applications.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-180606lexusesautoglide.jpg

Image source: Lexus Enthusiast
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Old 12th January 2019, 15:30   #22
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Default Re: Driven: Lexus ES 300h

Another great review as always! I see quite a few Lexus cars in Cochin, Im not sure if it is the NRK influence here and / or the Malayalee fascination for brands beyond the MB / BMW / Audi trio. But without a doubt the ES 300h will do well in Kerala.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akshay1234 View Post
The driver's seat gets an extended seat base for better under-thigh support for taller drivers. It extends in a phallic manner as opposed to a linear fashion like in a Volvo:
Ummm interesting analogy though Im sure more politically correct comparisons are possible. Is it more comfortable than the Volvo system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akshay1234 View Post
The rear seats are comfortable for only 2 occupants. The central hump makes it uncomfortable for middle seat passengers. The seats are comfortable and supportive but could do with some additional under-thigh support.
Isnt this a huge negative?
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Old 12th March 2019, 18:39   #23
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Default Re: Driven: Lexus ES 300h

Rated 5 stars! However, there are too many dealbreakers:
- Polarizing styling (I for one cannot stand it!)
- High price tag
- Poor distribution of sales and service
But the most important dealbreaker is that the equally competent Camry is priced much lower! I cannot understand why would a person buy this over a Camry. (At least, that is the common peopleís perception ) The new Camry can seriously give it a run for its money!
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Old 13th March 2019, 17:36   #24
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Originally Posted by balderash_12 View Post
- High price tag
- Poor distribution of sales and service
But the most important dealbreaker is that the equally competent Camry is priced much lower! I cannot understand why would a person buy this over a Camry. (At least, that is the common people’s perception ) The new Camry can seriously give it a run for its money!
To be honest, that’s not really the case here. Price is always an subjective thing. Why would an person by an S class over an E350d? They both offer the same engine, gearbox, and air suspension. So isn’t the E class more VFM? Yes, it is. But for a person who gets into the details like Snob Value, NVH, trim quality, ride quality and many other factors the S class is worth it. That’s exactly the case with the ES and Camry.
Only if you drive the cars back to back, look into the details and not just the specs on paper, you’ll be able to see why the ES is priced the way it is. It is better than the competiton in many many ways except driving pleasure. But it makes up for it in insulating me from the outside world and NVH levels.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 13th March 2019 at 17:48. Reason: fixing quote tags
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Old 13th March 2019, 17:58   #25
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To be honest, thatís not really the case here. Price is always an subjective thing. Why would an person by an S class over an E350d? They both offer the same engine, gearbox, and air suspension. So isnít the E class more VFM? Yes, it is. But for a person who gets into the details like Snob Value, NVH, trim quality, ride quality and many other factors the S class is worth it. Thatís exactly the case with the ES and Camry.
Only if you drive the cars back to back, look into the details and not just the specs on paper, youíll be able to see why the ES is priced the way it is. It is better than the competiton in many many ways except driving pleasure. But it makes up for it in insulating me from the outside world and NVH levels.
Yes, maybe not the price tag, but on other fronts, the Camry will kill it. The Indian public will see not value in the Lexus (even though it is of course superior) ďWhy pay extra for a very similar product?Ē But those who have come to buy in this segment will not be disappointed!
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Old 13th March 2019, 19:17   #26
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Default Re: Driven: Lexus ES 300h

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Originally Posted by balderash_12 View Post
Yes, maybe not the price tag, but on other fronts, the Camry will kill it. The Indian public will see not value in the Lexus (even though it is of course superior) ďWhy pay extra for a very similar product?Ē But those who have come to buy in this segment will not be disappointed!
It doesn't really work that way. One is a Toyota and another is a Lexus - the luxury quotient is poles apart. It's almost like saying Indian public won't buy an Audi A4 because there is Skoda Octavia, which is normally not the case. Someone who is looking to buy a ES may look at a 5-series, XF or the E, probably not the Camry.
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Old 13th March 2019, 19:48   #27
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It doesn't really work that way. One is a Toyota and another is a Lexus - the luxury quotient is poles apart. It's almost like saying Indian public won't buy an Audi A4 because there is Skoda Octavia, which is normally not the case. Someone who is looking to buy a ES may look at a 5-series, XF or the E, probably not the Camry.
No, I meant to say that they are very similar to each other (looks, equipment etc.) that the Camry might turn to be the nail on the ESís coffin. It is often referred to as a ďmini LexusĒ But of course what you are saying is true. I fully agree with you.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:13   #28
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Prologue:
I'll combine ownership of three cars into one post because I'm quite lazy to create separate ownership thread.

Our 2005 Hyundai Sonata AT was our daily driver for the past 13 years and clocked 1.68 lacs kilometers.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-h-s-1min.jpg
Apart from fuel pump issues in 2009 and another time in 2013 which was due to bad fuel at a highway pump, replacement of wear and tear items like suspension and steering rack overhaul, A/C compressor and evaporator coil replacement in 2011, it has been a reliable companion.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-h-s-3min.jpg
Itís now starting to show its age with A/C compressor going weak again and sometimes transmission misses on first gear, probably due to some fault solenoid. But it engages gear once I shift gear into manual mode. Iíve decided to run this car to the ground as the market value of the car is rock bottom even though its immaculately maintained.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-h-s-2min.jpg
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-h-s-4.jpg
In 2015, we bought E-class W212 (E250 CDI) as a replacement for the Sonata.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-m-b-e-1.jpg
The ownership for the E-class has been sort of mixed bag.
During a vacation trip in Jaisalmer in a 3 month old car, CEL came on and the car refused to accelerate beyond 110 KM/H with sluggish acceleration from 60 KM/H onwards, as if it lost turbo boost pressure. It used to happen for 10-15 min every hour. After we came back from the trip, gave the car to A.S.S and the fault was diagnosed to be a torque converter clutch solenoid. Dealership reprogrammed Transmission Control Module (TCM) and said the problem will not occur again. After an year, during another trip, the same symptoms occurred again. This time I had written mails to MBIL, T&T motors CEO. And got the torque converter replaced. That fault has not occurred again since replacement. It had seen many warranty replacements like driver side seat frame change due to play in the seat, Rear light, A/C Expansion valve. And now, after completing 39,000 Km, it requires all engine mounting replacement as engine vibrations can be felt inside and anti roll bar links replacement even after being driven very sedately in potholes and road due to low profile tires (245/40 R19 front and 275/35 R19 rear). Iím aware of the fact that low profile tire are more harsh on the suspension. But it ran on 25,000 Km on original 17Ē wheels as we switch wheels according to roads in out of station trips or in the city.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-m-b-e-2.png
We tend to keep our cars for a long period at least for 10 years. Due to idiotic 10-15 year age ban on vehicles plying in Delhi-NCR, the hunt for replacement vehicle was on.

The Contenders:
Due to the road conditions in Delhi-NCR and water logging prone areas around our residence, our next car had to be a SUV. Preferably 7 Seater and in petrol variant.

Mercedes-Benz:
Mercedes has 6-cylinder petrol variants for GLE and GLS. I took a test drive for both of the vehicles in Diesel variant. The dashboard had the same layout and it didnít feel much special place to be in. Maybe because I was used to travelling in E class. Both the SUV felt ancient in terms of technology when compared to its rivals as they are in the end of their life cycle and we werenít in the mood of buying another Mercedes. Rejected both of them as it was not feeling much of an upgrade from E class. Also there wasnít much discounts in petrol variant as they are made to order according to sales person.

Audi:
Audi Gurgaon had ceased its operations due to arrest of the owner. The only functioning Audi dealership in Delhi-NCR was on Mathura Road, Delhi. Took a test drive for the Q7 45 TDI. The ride was very compliant and refined compared to the GLE and the technology was on another level. Audi has now removed 5th spare wheel completely from the Q7, previously we had the option to fold down the seats and attach the spare wheel to the frame. This was a huge bummer. As whatís the point of buying an SUV if youíll always have a constant fear of a puncture and being stranded in the middle of nowhere. At least a donut wheel should be provided to limp to the next possible stop. Run flats can only help you for a period of time that too if the tyre is not damaged in the first place. Rejected due to spare wheel and unusable third row for adults.

BMW:
BMW X5 lacked 7 seating option and only had diesel variant both of which didnít met our criteria. Nevertheless, took the test drive and came mightily impressed from the Engine and overall drivability of the X5. But was rejected because it didnít fulfill our needs.

Jaguar Land Rover:
JLR had F-Pace, Velar and Discovery which matched our criteria. All the SUVs had full size spare wheel and had good wading depth.
- F-Pace: F-Pace was only available with Ingenium diesel engine when we were in the process of selecting the car. Later, it was released in petrol variant. Took a test drive, the car had coolant level low warning, TPMS failure and overall the engine felt rough and the ride was very stiff. Probably owing to the sporty nature of the SUV and we were now quite adjusted to the air suspension of its rivals.
- Velar: Just like the F-Pace, the Velar was didnít had a smooth and compliant ride that is provided by the air suspension and its engine made a whining noise during test drive which felt abnormal to me. The odo was on 19,000km. And it was due for CKD assembly which meant huge depreciation hit in the near future and the space inside was not that good.
- Discovery: We took a test drive of Discovery and suddenly I realized whatís all the hype with Land Rover is all about. The stadium seating position, unshakeable stability in high speed, and stress free driving. But the middle row seats were uncomfortable. It was as almost sitting like in a fetus position as the thigh support was simply non existent. You sit with knees up high. I donít know why Auto-Reviewers donít stress on this fact enough in their reviews. There was 2018 manufactured 3.0 Supercharged HSE variant available with the dealer. And it was available for around 86L On-road. But couldnít just pull the trigger as we all know the reliability of JLR products and their after sales support.

Volvo:
For the Swedish manufacturer, I checked out XC90 D5 and XC60 D5. The D5 engine was quite peppy and responsive in XC60 but felt underpowered in the XC90. The cars are loaded to the gills. Bowers and Wilkins sound system, supportive seats even in 3rd row for the XC90, according to best interior design of XC90 in this side of 1.5 CR and all the radar based active safety features. I was quite impressed with the safety features as I experienced it first hand when another car suddenly swerved in front of me and the Volvo automatically applied brakes and swerved to avoid collision. I enquired about XC90 T8 variant but two things put us off. First, there was no discount available on the T8 variant and second, 6 months waiting time after placing the order. And we would be stretching our budget quite a lot for the T8 variant. Didnít want to go for a Diesel engine due to 10 years age limit and T8 variant CKD assembly in near future. So, had to let go of Volvo.

The Epiphany:
Lexus was not considered till now because only two of their cars were in our budget. The NX and the ES. I took a test drive of the NX back in Mayí18 and was quite disappointed by the hatchback like front space and boot space. Also it felt quite dull to drive with noticeable rubber band effect of the CVT transmission. The ES was not considered at that point because we were just looking for an SUV and not a sedan.

Fast forward to January 2019:
I wonít go into much detail about ES as it is already covered with Team-BHP official review.
The ES 7th gen was launched in India in July and we never really considered it as an option. We decided to take a test drive of NX again that maybe our expectations were too high after driving cars with 6 cylinder engine, responsive gearboxes, and air suspension. And there we saw this beautiful 7th gen ES standing in the showroom and we were quite smitten by its looks. The interior was luxurious, and I felt that it was on a whole new level compared to our E-class and SUV rivals barring the XC90. Took the test drive for the ES and loved its refinement and tomb like quietness inside. The suspension was working as if its riding on air with all the pitch and bob that we are accustomed to in a car with air suspension. The 1800 Watts Mark Levinson sound system reproduced every beat and vocals of the music with perfection.
In city driving, itís very difficult to ignore the smoothness and jerk free nature of the CVT transmission. Compared to NX, the CVT transmission was mated to the engine in much better way.
We all have that feeling when we sit inside a certain car and it clicks in your mind that this is it, this is the car I was waiting for. I got that feeling with the ES. The negatives like CVT transmission, ground clearance it all went away. Because that is the nature of this car, itís not about reaching the destination as fast as you can it is about reaching your destination with utmost comfort. You don't need to feel the road everytime through the steering or feel the road you're travelling. Most of the time you like to be completely isolated from the outside world. That's what the ES is all about.
The wait for the ES was for 2 months because fresh batch of ES was only arriving by March with preset configurations of interior trim and exterior paint finish. If we wanted to configure the car as per our liking the wait was even longer. So casually, I enquired if the test drive car was available for sale as I knew the Gurgaon dealership will be closing soon and I was answered with a polite laugh and a no. I wouldnít have even dared to ask this question to any other manufacturer especially European marques but I trusted Lexus with their reliability with the JD power awards and overall reputation for the brand.
After a few days, I got an call from the sales representative and he said the demo car is available for sale. I went to the showroom that day itself to have a close look at the car.
They had detailed the car and parked it inside the showroom so I can inspect it.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-img_5303.jpg
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-img_5304.jpg
There were no scratches on the car except a rock chip mark on rear door and on closer inspection I found that left side of the front bumper was repainted. But these defects were expected in car that has run over 13,000 Km. There were no wear and tear marks in interior whatsoever and they looked in brand new condition. Being happy with the car, I sat down with the representative and started negotiating. Final price worked out to be approx.. 57 lacs with extended warranty and car cover with felt lining on the inside thrown in. This seemed like a much better deal compared to approx. 70 lacs for a brand new ES with 2 months waiting period. You can PM me for details on the pricing. To be honest, we wouldíve booked a brand new ES on full markup price because to us, it was worth it. Depreciation factors were not considered as we will own the car for around 10 years.
We finalized the formalities and booked the car. Next day I went to Grace Toyota to check out car history and it all looked legit. The first and second service was as per schedule and the front bumper was repainted in Decemberí17. Gave go ahead and disbursed the remaining amount next day and took the delivery of the car the same day.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-l-t-1.jpg

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-l-t-2.jpg

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-l-t-3.jpg

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-l-t-4.jpg

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-l-t-5-e.jpg
Butter smooth Beltless engine with electronically controlled A/C compressor, water pump and alternator.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-l-t-e-2.jpg

What i like:
Distinctive styling: From the day i saw it in showroom and to this day, i admire its styling. Not to mention the head turns and the attention this car receives compared to the Germans. Many times i've seen people clicking selfies with the car. I just stand far away and smile.

Hybrid drivetrain: Punchy low end with electric boost readily available for quick overtake maneuvers.

Efficiency: Gives around 18 kmpl in city and dropping to 17-20 kmpl on highway depending upon throttle input.

ICE: Lexus didn't cut any corners with the sound system in the car. They spec'ed the car with 15 speakers 1800 watts Mark-Levinson sound system.

Gizmos: The car is filled to the brim with tech. Some notable features are complete key-less entry system, Ventilated seats, HUD, Auto dimming ORVM and IRVM, Powerful Triple-beam headlights with washers.

Spare wheel: Full size alloy spare wheel. There is no need to explain this necessary "feature" and the peace of mind it brings along. Period.

What i dislike:
Low ground clearance: The car is too low for Indian roads. Need to maneuver it over speed-breakers.

Short turning radius: The car is seriously long and this is aggravated by its short turning radius. Need to think a lot while taking a U-turn or when travelling through tight roads.

E-CVT transmission: No matter how efficient and smooth the transmission in the ES is, nothing can replace an 7 speed or 8 speed ZF transmission.

Inconsistent braking: As the car uses electric motors to brake at speed greater than 20 KM/H and hydraulic brakes below it, depending upon the brake pedal input, there is inconsistent pedal feel.

Thin Sheet metal on doors: ES seriously lacks the heft in the doors compared to the Germans. I had to damp the doors completely with sound deadening material to get it close to my E class. But even after dampening, still it's only 70% close to the "Thunk" of the E class.


Next day, gave the car for full PPF applicationas we are planning to keep this car for long term. I went for X-pel Ultimate PPF from House of Polish in Sector-56, Gurugram, as the reviews of X-pel PPF on the forums are much better than 3M PPF and is less prone to yellowing which can be a real pain in white shade. 3M has now come up with more variants for its scotchguard series PPF like ventureshield and pro series. But in the end i decided to got for X-pel. It also has self healing properties. Went for Ceramic coating over PPF for more protection.
Driven: Lexus ES 300h-hop-2.jpg

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-hop-1.jpg

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-hop-3.jpg
Nevertheless, the car will be covered with car cover most of the time at the office and under shade at home.

Letís hope that Lexus stays true to its name and itíll be a Fuss free ownership.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:13   #29
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Congratulations on the ES300h. Great buy, outstanding price <green with envy emoji here> and excellent colour with that shimmering effect. At 13,000 kms it is a baby. My car at 26,000 kms looks and drives as brand new. Happy & safe miles to you.
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:01   #30
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I believe we've met!

Driven: Lexus ES 300h-img_3448.jpg
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