[Puneet0051]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Thanks Puneet. Enjoy your car. What I've reviewed is the stock car. There are lots of after market options to improve the drive experience should you choose. Happy Motoring!

I bought 220d and didnt wait for newer G20 launch and I like to keep it stock except for the visual differences and so was looking to upgrade to 18" AMG Type alloys like in 300D but for our conditions 17" are best suited. Maybe a different set of alloys, current ones are very boring

[evil_grin]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

This a comparo between the G20 330i and some of its worthy competition viz, the F30, the vRS 245, the Mini JCW and the E90.

AMG_Power, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing this. I frequently wonder how the most fun cars in India compare against each other and why one is better than the other. You've comprehensively explained which ones they are and, in detail, why.

However, which car is more fun also largely depends on people's tastes. Some folks are willing to sacrifice ride quality for taught handling. Some aren't. Some love hydraulic steering for the feedback while some like well tuned EPS for reducing the amount of unnecessary effort that they have to put in to turn.

Then there are also non car parameters. E.g. Skill of the driver. For a learner, any car is fun to drive. Once their skills go up, the car may disappoint. So they'd want to get a more capable car. But if they get too capable a car, the car would correct many mistakes they make (traction control etc, better grip), making it less fun.

Or the roads you regularly drive in. Not just whether they are smooth or pockmarked. But also how fast you can safely go considering the traffic and road width. So within the city, I find that B2 segment hatchbacks are way more fun than the 3 series. It's only the highways and tracks that the brilliance of the 3 series gets space to shine.

Driving a car at the limits of the car, driver and roads is among the highest thrills of driving.

[zulfi hansi]

Good narrative and honest opinions. My first experience with F30 was to say the least, underwhelming. It was a brand new 320d with just 2k kms on the ODO. My ride was a E280 CDI, coming from that the F30 was shaking like a fly on the highway at speeds my W211 would be yawning, not the right comparison though. Now I am driving C250 CDI AMG Edition, the ride is hard as hell, but the precision and response is awesome. But then I never could lay my hands on the E90 on a highway, did drive a few times in the city, I could not really feel the car. I am seeing many E90 325i for sale, what is your take on that. I just wish you have driven a 325i hard. The E90 320d available in the market are too high on mileage and not really what they used to be. Some 325i are low run and may work as a calculated risk. Was curious to see if I can take the cheap thrills plunge

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

For whatever reasons, heck, I even keep my M4 engine settings in sports on my daily drive, but the gearbox behaves smoothly unless I change the shift speed settings high. This gearbox tune is definitely aggressive to the point of intrusive, if I may say..

You don't need to use the Sports Mode in the City. As mentioned in my review, the Comfort mode is good enough for most situations. It's only on an expressway and where you want to tighten up the suspension that you need to use the Sports mode. If you've been using the M4 is Sports mode in the city and find it comfortable that's good. That does not make it the right usage of the gearbox because Sports mode isn't intended for urban use. You won't find the Sports mode in G20 comfortable in the city because it isn't meant to be comfortable. That's why they have the Comfort mode.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No, 50 Lac is a lot of money and they could have used a better interior. In fact, BMW is using Nappa only on 530-D & 7 series. Rest all is Vernasca or Dakota. Overseas, you can spec a 3 or 4 series even with Merino. They should have given an option for better quality leather at-least. But I guess this is because of lack of competition. MB doesn’t offer either.

As mentioned at the beginning of this thread I don't care for features and interiors beyond a point. If a car has the performance I want, the handling I want and the looks I want I am more than willing to compromise on the lack of features and most certainly the quality of leather. I actually don't care too much for leather interiors. Discussions on features and leather quality is pointless in my books.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I will say this is more of a misconception, someone who has driven for a shorter duration or read the reviews will say this. Having owned one for past few months, I can safely say, when you change those useless hang kook tyres, I find Mini equally or comfortable than anything else being compared here. Road Noise is something that I don't like despite trying Two different type of tyre patterns from Michelin.

After my first drive of the car, I was so underwhelmed that I thought I must have made a mistake. It took me several drives on long stretches to finally drive home the fact that my original opinion was indeed accurate - the JCW is underwhelming as a car and under most Indian conditions it provides very little driving pleasure. To exploit anywhere close to its full potential, you would need very good roads. And that is why Mini restricted its media drives of the JCW only to the track.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No, for some people, ambience matters. Yes, I will prefer a good fabric over the cheaper leather. Frankly, you spend a lot of time in your car and we do most of this in urban conditions. Having a nice interior goes a long way. The initial euphoria of speed/ downshift goes down quickly but I will always love to hear that upgraded Audio or sit on a relax leather. But I am in late forties so perhaps its because of the age

Have covered this point above.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Again, I keep the shade open on my sunroof; it helps me tremendously, else I feel claustrophobic. I am sure there are many like me.

If you are prone to feelings of claustrophobia, the Mini is probably not the best choice of car. Keeping a sunroof open under extremely hot Indian summers can be daunting.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

BMW is having some very tempting offers on the 530-D even though LCI is delayed due to prevailing Covid conditions, so someone who has a flexible budget should definitely consider.

Just saw the prices at 67 lakhs. That's good value for a 530d.

Originally Posted by Amsdoc

Great review! I haven't driven the F30 or the G20. But drove the E90 a bit and used to like it but even better as a driving machine I thought was the E46. I loved the 330i E46.
I think the increasing size has robbed the 3 of what it was supposed to be. The G20 is almost as big as an older gen 5 series (E39)

Thanks Amsdoc. True that the increasing size has removed a lot of the driving pleasure from the 3.

Originally Posted by Puneet0051

I bought 220d and didnt wait for newer G20 launch and I like to keep it stock except for the visual differences and so was looking to upgrade to 18" AMG Type alloys like in 300D but for our conditions 17" are best suited. Maybe a different set of alloys, current ones are very boring

The C220 is a good car. It handles far better than the F30 and has good high speed stability. A change of alloys will certainly help its looks.

Originally Posted by evil_grin

AMG_Power, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing this. I frequently wonder how the most fun cars in India compare against each other and why one is better than the other. You've comprehensively explained which ones they are and, in detail, why.

However, which car is more fun also largely depends on people's tastes...

Then there are also non car parameters. E.g. Skill of the driver.

Or the roads you regularly drive in.

Driving a car at the limits of the car, driver and roads is among the highest thrills of driving.

You're welcome evil_grin. Happy to have broadened your perspective in this area. You're right - the choice of car depends on individual preferences, driver capability and experience and most importantly the driving cycle. It doesn't make sense to buy a high performance car for urban use. A Rapid 1.0 TSI, Ecosport or even the Ford Figo give you a lot of fun behind the wheels. Under most Indian conditions they actually are more fun. High performance cars need the right roads to extract driving pleasure. They are actually a pain to drive in urban traffic and the availability of roads near the area one lives is a key decision point that most people tend to overlook in their enthusiasm to buy a car.

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

Good narrative and honest opinions...

I am seeing many E90 325i for sale, what is your take on that. I just wish you have driven a 325i hard. The E90 320d available in the market are too high on mileage and not really what they used to be. Some 325i are low run and may work as a calculated risk. Was curious to see if I can take the cheap thrills plunge

Thanks zulfi hansi. I haven't driven the 325i but it should be close enough to the 330d to give you fun behind the wheel. Have it thoroughly checked as parts could be expensive once they start failing. Availability of parts would be an issue too.

[dealer]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

The C220 is a good car. It handles far better than the F30 and has good high speed stability. A change of alloys will certainly help its looks.

While I agree with a lot of your opinions shared in the original post, I do feel that the F30 is a far better handler than the C220d. Before I bought my F30 LCI , I had a go in the C220d which although was a tight handler felt like it didn't really want to be pushed around corners. Don't get me wrong it is a great car that portrays sheer elegance but in terms of handling precision and fun, the F30 is a superior package that wants you to go faster, turn the ESP off around bends and not baby it around. Regarding high speed stability, are your views based on the F30 or the LCI? I test drove the F30 2015 and the LCI back to back and certainly the former didn't inspire confidence. The LCI however, felt great at high speeds, yes there's a bit of floatiness but I've only encountered that on certain flyovers with frequent expansion joints.

[sambhav.jain]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

BMW is having some very tempting offers on the 530-D even though LCI is delayed due to prevailing Covid conditions, so someone who has a flexible budget should definitely consider.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Just saw the prices at 67 lakhs. That's good value for a 530d.

Could you please point to the source of this? Where can I find this deal. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

That does not make it the right usage of the gearbox because Sports mode isn't intended for urban use.

I won't agree but it's ok not to argue. I feel the jerks or the smoothness in Sports mode could have been better.

If a car has the performance I want, the handling I want and the looks Discussions on features and leather quality is pointless in my books.

If someone is spending close to Rs 50 lac on a luxury sedan which also is a sportier car to drive many people actually look out for such things when buying with their own money. It's ok if the intent is only a review. BTW, this is the logic given by Porsche sales guys as well, who try to pitch a 911 or a 718 with a plastic dashboard worst than a Maruti 10 lac car.

But, that's me and I may be totally wrong and many people won't care as you said.

the JCW is underwhelming as a car and under most Indian conditions it provides very little driving pleasure. To exploit anywhere close to its full potential, you would need very good roads. And that is why Mini restricted its media drives of the JCW only to the track.

Do you remember which tires it had? I drove for less than 10 Km on those hankooks and the difference is day and night. Most other Mini owners feel the same. You get used to the suspension very fast and after a while enjoy it. Over here, Mini events were held on regular roads after closing those for the public. In the past 3 months or so, I have used Mini maximum & remains my preferred city car or even for a nearby destination like Jaipur or Agra. It doesn't come with a spare tire so I am afraid to take it longer, need to find a solution.

Keeping a sunroof open under extremely hot Indian summers can be daunting.

Yes, but it gets a nice black shade, do you find this underwhelming and won't care for interiors

Originally Posted by sambhav.jain

Could you please point to the source of this? Where can I find this deal. Any help would be much appreciated.

Flat Discount 8,5 Lac + corporate - 25 K + BSI / BRI Discounts Rs 1,25 Lac - rest when you sit across - 2 lac I assume. Ex-Showroom is 68,40. Check with your nearest dealers as the offer is from BMW India. Dealers will get the stock from the factory.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by sambhav.jain

Could you please point to the source of this? Where can I find this deal. Any help would be much appreciated.

This is the price I got for the 530d from BMW in Mumbai when I was shopping. It might have actually ended up being sub 65, though I cannot remember exactly now. The 530i was closer to 60.

[coolboy007]

Nicely penned down thread, have only driven the F30 and E90 so far. I had an opportunity to ride shotgun in a Cooper S and really loved the compact dimensions and build quality. Mini is for some one who either is young and does not need to carry 3-4 people frequently or for some one who has a lot of other cars in garage and Mini is for those weekend drives. I found the ride really firm on that car.

F30 as we all know was a step backwards for bmw, if you have driven the LCI, it was vastly improved over the bouncy and floaty feel of the pre Lci. Even the LCI with staggered tyres feels floaty and the rear unsettles over long wave undulations. If some one says they find nothing wrong with F30, either they are ignorant or they need to drive some other car with a sorted suspension at the same speed over same undulations and see how the rear flies/bounces over it.

G20 as per all reviews is a much more sorted car with the brilliant 30i motor. The only grouse i have with it is that interiors look too plain jane compared to others. I was planning to swap in my F30 for a G20 this year but i might just jump over to a G30 after some wait. Driving a 3 for over 5 years now, i guess i might just go in for a 5 series for the elevated luxury and the fact that it nicely specced too. Need to do long test drives for both the cars. The spec sheet and prices in India would not help with the G20 sales as well, Bmw India has been stupid enough once again to remove keyless entry, M sport has no HUD and interior wise, the car does not feel like a 55L INR car for the top spec variant. The lower trim with discounts is still value for money.

Originally Posted by v1p3r

This is the price I got for the 530d from BMW in Mumbai when I was shopping. It might have actually ended up being sub 65, though I cannot remember exactly now. The 530i was closer to 60.

Are these on road prices? For the 530i, are these for the sports variant or the top m Sport variant?

[v1p3r]

On road, yes. For both, they were the M Sport variant.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

The Mini JCW is a car that isn't intended for Indian conditions. Its a go kart like no other. And therein lies it's problem. The car needs absolutely good roads to demonstrate what it can do - and it can do quite a bit - just that you need to be on a track to find that out. This makes it impractical under Indian conditions. There really isn't driving pleasure given our roads so it's quite a dampener after all the hype that it comes with.

+ 1 to that

I picked up an immaculate Mini Cooper for a friend of mine. Only catch, we had to pick it up from Mangalore. The previous owner loved it but the car was unusable on Mangalore's roads. It kept losing its alignment and sunroof rattled.



Took delivery, car was wonderful on corners but frustrating on single lane highway traffic as it was biting at the leash all the time. Enroute, we took a detour to Dharmastala , the roads were beautiful and the car was a joy to drive. Somewhere near Sakleshpur, a minor pothole gashed a sidewall. We limped on the runflat to Hassan and then flat bedded the car to Bangalore.

I was using the car today at length in town. The handling, steering and performance are a joy however but the seat of the pants feeling comes from watching out for the speedbreakers, the potholes, keeping in mind the fragile wheels (50k a corner combined!) and limited travel suspension!

When the roads are right, this is a wonderful car but reality is very different.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by ajmat

When the roads are right, this is a wonderful car but reality is very different.

Tell your friend to get rid of those RFT. Michelin has 2 types, I found the PS4 noisy but others find normal. Upsize to 215x45x17 in Primacy 4. If the car was sitting for a while and rattles, apply silicon spray on rubber parts.

Last week while returning from Jaipur, left wheel went into a deep rut, I was following a fortuner which obviously went easily but I was surprised the way Mini handled despite limited suspension travel. Any of my other BMW’s - I would have been looking at least a blown tyre if not a damaged rim.

I agree with coolboy, interiors of 3 are a miss and the cheaper variant is the one to pick. Also, Mini is indeed for niche customers, actually everywhere but more so in India due to crazy duties. That’s the reason they do a fraction of what BMW does.

[AirbusCapt]

If you want to pick a mini for India, please consider the countryman. This gets you about 85/90% of the Mini's go-kart feel, but brings about a lot of practicality in handling Indian roads with the many potholes and speed breakers. The slightly taller springs help in getting a cushier ride as well.

[Santoshbhat]

Talking from my own perspective of owning the Polo GTI for a few years, I do agree that cars like the Mini are quite impractical for Indian conditions. These cars come with very stiff suspensions and low profile tyres and are extremely sharp to drive. The slightest of bad roads put them off. Even on somewhat good roads, if they aren't completely flat you will find your head bobbing like an F1 driver if you try to push hard (pleasurable for some, punishment for most). You can just about manage to live with these in big cities with half decent roads. If you are located anywhere outside the big metros/ NCR, then you will curse yourself for buying such a car. I don't have a long daily commute and if I had to drive on Bangalore ORR everyday, I have a strong feeling, I might have regretted buying the GTI. Only when the roads are flat and smooth, the virtues of the car come shining through. The compact dimension, light weight, strong brakes, sharp steering, strong engine, quick shifting gearbox all come together to deliver a very satisfying driver experience. If you are looking for comfort for your daily drives, these cars are not for you.

This where I feel BMW has done a great job with the G20. I haven't driven one yet and I am basing this on only material I have read on the internet. They have achieved a fantastic balance of driver engagement and comfort for an owner who prioritises driving pleasure over comfort. I am sure there are many who will find the G20 also uncomfortable and there are many cars out there that will score higher on comfort. But I feel BMW have hit the sweet spot with G20 for the enthusiastic driver who wants a car that is luxurious, comfortable and premium for his daily use, while at the same time, is capable of delivering very high levels of driving pleasure when the mood and conditions are favourable.

[Puneet0051]

Originally Posted by coolboy007

The car does not feel like a 55L INR car for the top spec variant. The lower trim with discounts is still value for money.

I completely agree the interiors are a big let down and as rightly said doesn't feel like its a 55L car. The way traffic is in city, its never gonna be pushed to its limits most of the times. 1 year wait to get G20 in sports diesel variant at similar price point as progressive c220d. I still feel progressive is a better buy with all the bells and whistles even today even if it is available at a 2-3L premium over sports diesel G20. To each of his own though