[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

I have become an avid follower of yours Ordered the MANATEC TPMS along with an extra sensor.

I am running the stock ecopia's, with stepney changed to alloy while taking delivery.

Excellent. Do take care to match the tyre with sensor location. From factory, light point of the tyre(marked with yellow dot) is matched with tyre valve location(applicable only for alloy wheels, for steel wheels concept and hence process is different). Don't miss this. This will ensure you spend less on weights during balancing. Also make sure they take out all embedded pebbles from tyre treads before balancing.

Originally Posted by lionell

On my last long drive from Jodhpur to Mumbai (900+ kms) FE with my automatic was 15.8

Did a recent Goa-Mumbai-Goa with the expressway and ghats on the way the FE dropped to 14. Both these trips were with the 3 people on board along with luggage and a roof box. The Roof box creates drag and the FE drops for sure. My car has done just about 4000kms on the odo.

Your XL6 is looking brilliant with western ghats in the background. My XL6 is idle since 3 weeks now. Trying to use my 800 whenever possible, since I don't want it to feel neglected.

Regards,
Shashi

[MadTiger]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Excellent. Do take care to match the tyre with sensor location. From factory, light point of the tyre(marked with yellow dot) is matched with tyre valve location. Also make sure they take out all embedded pebbles from tyre treads before balancing.

Regards,
Shashi

Hi Sashi,

There is a blue mark on the rim which aligns with the yellow mark on the tire. But the blue mark is not near the valve. So while fitting the sensor should I align the yellow mark on the tire to the valve or to the blue mark?

Please find attached the spare wheel image for reference.



Thanks
Aniruddha.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

There is a blue mark on the rim which aligns with the yellow mark on the tire. But the blue mark is not near the valve. So while fitting the sensor should I align the yellow mark on the tire to the valve or to the blue mark?

.

If there is a severe misbalance the balancer will show it and also advise to remount the tyre accordingly. If the balancer is quite old, decide by the weight it advises. If its too high like greater than 50gms, then consider remounting it. Usually the chaps at the tyre store know this and must take care unless they want to rip you off with extra weights.

[MadTiger]

So got the TPMS installed. The process was quite simple and self explanatory.

Sensors were installed on all 5 rims, installed them myself to avoid the guys over tightening them. However overlooked the tire seating process while checking rest of the balancing process. The guys weren't careful and the pneumatic tool scrapped the edge of the rims

I was so engrossed to oversee everything to ensure they align the tire "yellow" dot to the rim valve, remove the stuck stones while balancing that I overlooked fitment process and thus the damage happened.



The sensors shapes are well designed they tuck towards the inner edge of the rim which avoids tire contact during installation, however good to pay attention and due diligence.



Post installation I switched on the head unit, and asked them to fill the air to 32psi on all tires. To my surprise it auto registered all the wheels correctly and the readings were accurate.



Overall happy with the product, except we cant replace the batteries on the sensors. Complete sensor needs to be replaced once the battery dies or the sensor malfunctions. Replacement costs ₹1100 odd rupees.

Atleast now I know when to visit the fuel station to fill air. (Pun intended)

Attention: Sashi could you please let me know how many bars do you see on the sensor battery 'icon' I just see one. Could be the design but wanted to verify with you.

Cheers,
Aniruddha!

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

Hi Sashi,

There is a blue mark on the rim which aligns with the yellow mark on the tire. But the blue mark is not near the valve. So while fitting the sensor should I align the yellow mark on the tire to the valve or to the blue mark?

Apologies for the delayed reply, somehow missed this post entirely. Wasn't too well so was not that active on forum.

Post sensor installation, high point on the rim would shift towards the valve area entirely. So that's where I'd put yellow mark of the tyre.

Originally Posted by MadTiger

Sensors were installed on all 5 rims, installed them myself to avoid the guys over tightening them. However overlooked the tire seating process while checking rest of the balancing process. The guys weren't careful and the pneumatic tool scrapped the edge of the rims

The place where I get these things done, change the rubber cushion for my rims. Usually when that cushion is missing or has worn out, such scratches may occur.





Black rims are anyways a pain to maintain. I already have one stone chip near the centre cap. Had to touch it up with metallic black paint.

To my surprise it auto registered all the wheels correctly and the readings were accurate.

Nice, I did the learning process manually since I don't consider the unit to be so learned and wise!

Overall happy with the product, except we cant replace the batteries on the sensors. Complete sensor needs to be replaced once the battery dies or the sensor malfunctions. Replacement costs ₹1100 odd rupees.

Usually this is the norm with internal sensors. Sensairy or Schrader Units too have similar arrangement of sensors. Life is 5+ years so there is little to worry.

Atleast now I know when to visit the fuel station to fill air. (Pun intended)

Why not invest in a good tyre inflator? That way you will be self sufficient. Calibration of such public outlets are anyways out most of the time.

Attention: Sashi could you please let me know how many bars do you see on the sensor battery 'icon' I just see one. Could be the design but wanted to verify with you

How do I check charge of sensor battery? Sorry have never tried that. Please guide me so that I can revert.

Regards,
Shashi

[MadTiger]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Apologies for the delayed reply, somehow missed this post entirely. Wasn't too well so was not that active on forum.

Post sensor installation, high point on the rim would shift towards the valve area entirely. So that's where I'd put yellow mark of the tyre.

Thanks! Did the same and it saved a lot on weights!

Old weights were removed but was first checked with it then without.

Tire 1 - 35g
Tire 2 - 25g
Tire 3 - 05g (old weight)
Tire 4 - Nil (old weights removed)

Only tire 5 which is the new alloy (stepney) took the most weight not sure why total of 70g.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Nice, I did the learning process manually since I don't consider the unit to be so learned and wise!

Did you set the bigger digits to front and the smaller to rear or vice versa?

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Why not invest in a good tyre inflator? That way you will be self sufficient. Calibration of such public outlets are anyways out most of the time.

I intend to, but they make a lot of noise, any recommendations?

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

How do I check charge of sensor battery? Sorry have never tried that. Please guide me so that I can revert.

Please find attached pic for reference, this will come up only in setup menu. I was curious to find out what it does, and it just shows the tire arrangements in pairs, either side by side or diagonally, wasn't able to figure out what it does?



Later looked up the manual and found its the sensor battery icon. Since it had just one bar, got me thinking did I get sensors with weak battery, but looks like the icon itself is a one bar battery icon. I guess this will show up once the battery for any sensor gets weak, not sure though.



However let me know what you find.

Cheers!

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

I intend to, but they make a lot of noise, any recommendations?

https://www.amazon.in/dp/B06XW683G2/...ing=UTF8&psc=1

I am using this one since 2018 and 3 more people have bought it so far after seeing mine. It has a metal body, fills air fairly quick, does not make too much noise (subjective?).

I am planning to get a battery operated (wireless) TPMS system with external sensors so that I can use it during highway runs.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

Did you set the bigger digits to front and the smaller to rear or vice versa?

Smaller font is for front, larger ones for rear. If you look at the diagram of the chassis and from the place you are seeing it, this arrangement seems logical(in the direction of the car).

I intend to, but they make a lot of noise, any recommendations?

I'm not the best person to recommend someone on this. Noise is subjective. I'm using MGA branded inflators since 2015 and I'm sticking to them. But I can definitely say they aren't the best in business, as I have seen other products more refined/powerful. Reason why I stick to them, is that if any malfunction happens anywhere in electrical system, I have a neck to catch.

In a weird incident, my friend's Michelin branded inflator malfunctioned, and damaged the 12v socket. In such events I can catch Maruti if its MGA.

Also many products in market are rated/unrated but consume north of 120W which is the limit as per Maruti from 12V sources. So for such accessories, I try to stick to MGA.

Regards,
Shashi

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

Later looked up the manual and found its the sensor battery icon. Since it had just one bar, got me thinking did I get sensors with weak battery, but looks like the icon itself is a one bar battery icon. I guess this will show up once the battery for any sensor gets weak, not sure though.

However let me know what you find.

I checked today, and learnt something new. That icon is designed to come on when sensor level goes low. It's one bar in my car too.

Please find attached pic for reference, this will come up only in setup menu. I was curious to find out what it does, and it just shows the tire arrangements in pairs, either side by side or diagonally, wasn't able to figure out what it does?

I did this many times and messed up the sensor memory. It's a quick way of tyre rotation. Rotate the tyres physically and then use this option to relocate. It has all the popular relocation options like front-back, criss cross etc.

Since I did it so many times, I don't know which sensor is showing for which tyre actually. Will make the system relearnt the sensor location.

Regards,
Shashi

[MadTiger]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

How do I check charge of sensor battery? Sorry have never tried that. Please guide me so that I can revert.

So I called the person in Manatec who assisted me in getting the additional sensor, he was kind enough to put me in touch with one of the engineers who is aware of the technical features of the display unit.

The sensor icon in setup lets you swap tires. Say during tire rotation, the front tires go back the and the rear comes to front. You do not have to take the pain to relearn all the tires again, just swap them in the menu and voila they take the new positions. Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by MadTiger

This is some serious tech, no matter how mild it might be but its functional and it works! Thank you! I have a follow up question.

I have heard in one of the car reviews that when the engine auto start / stop kicks in while stopped at a stop light for prolonged time the ISG runs the AC compressor without starting the engine when cabin temperature increases? Is that true?

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

I'll make a detailed post on the functioning of Smart Hybrid soon. A lot of wrong info has been circulated in the media by these self proclaimed experts.

As promised, here I am with a detailed description of the Smart Hybrid system. There is a lot of nonsense and misinformation circulated in the media. Have a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPhJ7MPSmYI

The Presenter talks about something being mounted on Flywheel and what not!

Even our official review couldn't escape from the misinformation. Two excerpts from our official review of Ciaz and Ertiga. Knowing how TeamBHP reviews work, I'm sure the origin of this misinformation is presentation by Maruti during media drives itself.

Originally Posted by Aditya

Driving the 1.5L Petrol MT

Smart Hybrid system:

The ISG replaces both, the conventional starter and alternator.

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Driving the 1.5L Petrol MT

Smart Hybrid System:

The ISG replaces both, the conventional starter and alternator.

What's true:

-Conventional Starter motor is very much present.

-In simple words, ISG is a device which has dual function-Motoring as well as Generation. It's belt driven and connected to Pulley which is in turn connected to crankshaft.

-Starting- To simplify, when push button start is pressed, the usual cranking sound can be heard, and that's when Conventional starter motor is at work. When car shuts down automatically by Auto Stop function, it resumes silently, and that's when ISG revives the engine using its belt drive. This is why it resumes silently without making any noise.

Techincal Elaboration

Description of SHVS System

The SHVS system comprises the ISG, ECM and a variety of sensors, etc. In addition to a deceleration energy regenerating function (1) that utilizes the ISG to generate power mainly during deceleration, the SHVS system is equipped with an engine power assist function (2) that acts as an auxiliary power source for the engine when the accelerator is depressed, and a starter motor function (3) used when automatically restarting the engine.

The ECM controls electricity generation based on information received from the electric load current sensor & battery temperature sensor, regardless of the activation status of deceleration energy regenerating function, in order to maintain optimum battery condition.

SHVS System Communication: ISG incorporating CAN driver communicates with ECM via CAN communication. ISG is monitoring sensors incorporated in ISG and, when detecting any abnormality, the information is transmitted to ECM and ECM performs a control to enter the fail-safe mode according to the level of the abnormality.

ISG Mechanical Operation: In the same manner as a conventional generator, the ISG (1) is connected with the crankshaft pulley (2) via the ISG drive belt (3). The ISG, instead of starting motor, enables the engine to restart and, through this, improved quietness when automatically restarting the engine is achieved. Drive belt auto tensioner (4) is adopted to stabilize the belt tension and restrict the slippage corresponding to large driving force when ISG is power assist mode.

ISG Operation:

1. Engine power assist and starter motor functions
When ISG operates as starter motor or in the engine power assist mode, the power circuit transistors are turned ON, and direct current from the battery (lead-acid battery) or auxiliary power module (lithium-ion battery) is converted into three-phase (six-phase) alternating current passing through each transistor side of the power circuit. Three-phase (six-phase) alternating current passes through the three phase (six-phase) winding of the stator to generate torque in the rotor and causing rotation as a motor.

2. Generating and deceleration energy regenerating functions: In the same manner as a conventional generator, passing current through the rotor field coil causes the rotor poles to be magnetized, and electromagnetic induction alters the magnetic field of the stator to generate electricity. The electricity generated in the stator is three-phase (six-phase) alternating current, and when it passes through the power circuit in ISG, it is rectified into direct current to charge the battery (lead-acid battery) and auxiliary power module(lithium-ion battery).

In this generating mode, the power circuit switches the transistors to ON during rectification, and the electricity generated by the stator passes through each transistor side to perform synchronous rectification.

Description of SHVS System Components: The SHVS system consists of the following components-

ECM: ECM transmits ISG control request signal via CAN corresponding to the condition of the vehicle.

ISG: ISG is fitted in the same position with conventional generator and mainly consists of a stator coil, rotor, rotor speed sensor and inverter (control circuit, field circuit, power circuit, CAN driver, temperature sensor and field current sensor). ISG has a generator function to generate electricity and a driving function to assist engine power or to start the engine. ISG monitors all internal sensors and when any malfunction is detected, ISG transmits the information to ECM via CAN and enters the fail-safe mode.

Battery (lead-acid battery): Supplies electricity to ISG when restarting engine controlled by ENG A-STOP system.

Auxiliary power module(lithium-ion battery): Supplies electricity to ISG while assisting engine power controlled by SHVS system.

CPP No.1 switch / CPP No.2 switch (M/T model): These switches are installed on clutch pedal bracket. The switches provide ECM with information on the state of the clutch pedal.

Neutral position switch (M/T model): This switch is installed on transaxle case. ECM determines whether the gear is in neutral based on the signal from this switch.

Transmission range sensor (A/T model): This sensor is installed on transaxle case. TCM detects select lever position (P, R, N,D, 2, L)

Combination meter
- When any malfunction is detected, ECM controls ENG A-STOP warning light to blink and charge warning light to turn on. The warning lights are turned off when ECM detects normal condition.
- Status of SHVS system i.e. each of engine auto restart, power assist and deceleration energy regeneration is indicated on the information display (energy flow indicator).

Brake stroke sensor: The sensor is fitted to brake pedal, and detects the depressing degree of the brake pedal. ECM uses this information to engine auto stop control and engine auto restart control.

Description of SHVS System Control

Generating Mode: While the vehicle is decelerating, the generator generates electric power intensively to charge the lithium-ion battery
and lead-acid battery. This function is effective for improvement of fuel efficiency.
• ECM (1) transmits generation control signal, ISG torque request signal and supply voltage request signal to ISG (2).
• ISG controls generating torque and “B” terminal (3) voltage according to the request signals to charge the auxiliary power module (lithium-ion battery) (4) and battery (lead-acid battery) (5).
• While the generator is working in deceleration energy regenerating mode, ECM transmits energy flow indicator signal on combination meter (6) to indicate of deceleration energy regeneration.

Engine Restart Mode: Substituting ISG for conventional starting motor, ISG rotates crankshaft through ISG drive belt and pulley to auto
restart the engine without making gear noise of starting motor. With this auto restart mode, cranking speed is raised and the following effects are brought:
• Restricts engine speed to rise right after engine start.
• Stabilizes and converges engine speed right after engine start.
• Reduces fuel consumption accordingly.

• When the conditions to execute engine auto restart are satisfied, ECM (1) transmits ISG control request signal and
ISG torque request signal to ISG (2).
• ISG changes the power circuit to drive mode and the stator is energized to generate torque for restarting engine.
• Turning torque of ISG rotor turns crankshaft through ISG drive belt (4) and crankshaft pulley (3).
• ECM controls fuel injection to start engine.
• Electric power is supplied to ISG from the battery (lead-acid battery) (5) via auxiliary power module (lithium-ion battery) (6).
• While the generator is working in restart mode, ECM transmits energy flow indicator signal on combination meter(7) to indicate restarting.

Engine Power Assist Mode: When accelerating slowly, ISG (1) assists engine power to improve fuel efficiency.
• When conditions to assist engine power are satisfied, ECM (2) transmits ISG torque request signal to ISG.
• ISG changes the power circuit to drive mode and the stator is energized to generate torque for assisting engine power.
• Rotor turning torque of ISG assists turning of crankshaft through ISG drive belt (4) and crankshaft pulley (3).
NOTE
• Engine power assist by ISG continues for maximum 30 seconds.
• Power assisting torque varies according to the auxiliary power module (lithium-ion battery) (5)condition.
• ECM requests relay “3P” (6) to ON and electric power is supplied to ISG from auxiliary power module (lithium-ion battery).
• While the generator is working in power assist mode, ECM transmits energy flow indicator signal on combination meter (7) to indicate power assist.

Conditions which Auto Start stop checks before coming into picture:

Hope this eliminates many doubts.

Regards,
Shashi

PS: Credits: Maruti's Service Manual, service circulars and training documents

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

As promised, here I am with a detailed description of the Smart Hybrid system.

Whoa!

That's such an informative post. I feel even 99% of Maruti guys are not aware of this. Superb explanation like always.

The lithium ion battery is present in the petrol variants, what about diesel ones?

Mods, I feel this deserves a separate thread.

[MadTiger]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

As promised, here I am with a detailed description of the Smart Hybrid system. There is a lot of nonsense and misinformation circulated in the media. Have a look at this video:

Thank you so much! This brings in immense knowledge to nerds like me

On a more personal observation - when ever engine auto - start - stop kicks in; say at a stop light and the ambient temperature inside the cabin increases, this condition will makes the engine auto - start - stop restart the engine.

I have observed that the engine auto - start - stop keeps the engine on and will not stop automatically irrespective of the wait time. Once restarted engine will stop again only when the vehicle moves and stops. Let me know if you have observed similar observation.

Cheers!

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

As promised, here I am with a detailed description of the Smart Hybrid system.

Awesome & very detailed explanation of how the smart hybrid system works , will clear many doubts. It seems the current Maruti hybrid system isn't exactly a gimmick (unlike the SHVS on the now discontinued DDiS engine), it does provide some help to the IC engine. Hopefully the next iterations of this hybrid system will be even better.

The best thing according to me here is using the ISG to restart the engine after the car is shut down by the auto stop function. I have experienced the start stop system in Mahindra cars, where the restarting process isn't at all seamless. If I were to own such a vehicle (like a Mahindra Scorpio micro hybrid), I would keep the start stop functionality permanently disabled. I ought to take a long TD of a Maruti with the current hybrid system.

P.S- I remember reading somewhere that these parts cost a bomb to replace, since they are imported from Japan. How much do they cost? (the Li-ion battery, ISG & related parts)

[MadTiger]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Valeo supplied Made in France ISG Unit, costs around 41k at the time of compiling this review:


Primary Battery-Exide Conservo ISS N55, costs around 8.5k:


Location of 2nd Battery, visible when front seat is pushed all the way forward

Made in Japan, costs 55.5k today:

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

P.S- I remember reading somewhere that these parts cost a bomb to replace, since they are imported from Japan. How much do they cost? (the Li-ion battery, ISG & related parts)

I have included the prices that Sashi has included in this thread.