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Old 29th January 2021, 21:10   #196
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
This is clearly not a Safari.

Cheers, Doc
True, its not that Safari, its a much improved SUV. I owned the TCIC and the 2.2L Dicor Safari from 2004 to 2012, and from what I read in the review and the specs being revealed, it is what I would have wanted 2.2 Dicor to evolve into.

I mean what's not to like?
Good engine - check
Good ride/ handling - check
Handsome looks - check
Space - check
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Old 29th January 2021, 22:12   #197
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
True, its not that Safari, its a much improved SUV. I owned the TCIC and the 2.2L Dicor Safari from 2004 to 2012, and from what I read in the review and the specs being revealed, it is what I would have wanted 2.2 Dicor to evolve into.

I mean what's not to like?
Good engine - check
Good ride/ handling - check
Handsome looks - check
Space - check
From what I can see in this review, and I actually went through all 13 pages of it in the hope of MAYBE finding something to like, the interiors are quite tacky.

There was one photo of the armrest that looked like the upholstery had been done by a car interiors guy in Nana Peth (local auto hub of Poona).

And your check for the Looks of this car is exactly why I do not consider this one a Safari.

It's a generic new age cookie cutter shaped SUV/MPV hybrid like all the others.

It's not a Safari if the very basic DNA of the legendary stance itself is missing. That's how I look at it.

I also made my original post in response to Condor's post on the second page of the thread and read the mod note about not belaboiring the name tag anymore that came on a much later page, well, later. So I'll let it rest here.

I've given my Storme to Rudra today for some much needed TLC. A nice fat bill of 40k too to boot. But considering the alternatives on offer in the market today, I think that's money well spent and I hope to keep my beast on the road rocking and rolling and looking Tata 407s in the eye for many more years to come.

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 29th January 2021 at 22:17.
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Old 29th January 2021, 22:50   #198
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

I don't know how someone at TATA approved the white coloured seats, with so much glass area and and a full suv size we can rule out the issue of insides feeling claustrophobic. Although it looks very premium and they had to differentiate from harrier, but they should have thought about the long term use.
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Old 29th January 2021, 23:05   #199
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Shorts by Fasbeam. Since he is technically not breaking embargo his video has still not seen any action by Tata.


Last edited by varunswnt : 29th January 2021 at 23:06.
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Old 29th January 2021, 23:09   #200
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I was admiring some Nexon photos today and feel a Nexon like front end instead of the harrier ( i.e. traditional headlights ) would have looked much better than the harrier front end.

Comments?

Srinivas.
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Old 29th January 2021, 23:21   #201
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

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Originally Posted by varunswnt View Post
Shorts by Fasbeam. Since he is technically not breaking embargo his video has still not seen any action by Tata.

On similar lines, here is one by Bunny Punia.



Safari convoy video.



PS: TATA should have launched 2020 improved Harrier in 2019 with SAFARI name and call this a 7 seater Safari
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Old 29th January 2021, 23:39   #202
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

I still can't get over the fact that the rear end (side view) reminds me of the new Ertiga/XL6.
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Old 29th January 2021, 23:42   #203
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
A 2lac gap with the Harrier is necessary to ensure the Safari does not cannibalise its sibling's sales.

This puts it at a slight premium over the current XUV500, very much justifiable for a new model/platform. The only other competition is the extended hector. While the chinese hector maybe cheaper I think the SUV profile of the Safari will give it a definitive advantage over the more MPV'ish Hector 7seater. Plus the brand recall and being an Indian offering will have its own appeal for the Safari especially in current climes.
IMO, the gap of 2 lac is on higher side given the difference in size/features over Harrier (which many people feel already overpriced considering the features list, despite being a good product). It is not niche product like Jeep Compass(!!) in the segment. Tata need to sell in high volumes to recover the R&D and other costs. Also, the Harrier is not Safari's biggest competition, rather upcoming XUV500, MG Hector/Hector plus (and Diesel+AT once launched), Creta 7 seater are.

We can try to justify higher pricing (of both Harrier/Safari) stating great engine + gearbox combo (AT), excellent ride & handling, suspension, good build quality and overall a great product mechanically, BUT not everyone sees this way. Most of the positives of Harrier/Safari can be felt when actually driving, but can't be seen in the advertisements and can lose out some buyers to competitors.

Kia Seltos/Sonet, MG Hector, Nissan Magnite are examples that the long feature/variant list and aggressive introductory pricing is the way to attract customers to showrooms and these are still going strong. (Despite 3 star NCAP rating, mechanical/quality issues etc.)

The anti-China sentiments helped Tata (and Mahindra) last year when people started looking at Indian products and later word of mouth publicity from satisfied owners also added some monthly volumes. But if Tata want the success that rivals have, then they need to work on the feature list, right engine + gearbox + variants combo at the time of launch and aggressive pricing.

Regardless of many positives of Harrier, there is no denying that it is one of the least feature rich car in the segment (or even 1/2 segments below). With the launch of Safari, Tata had opportunity to add some features to justify the higher pricing (e.g. 360 Camera, Ventilated seats, good ICE or 4X4/AWD) which are also expected in this price segment, but still missed out big time. Hence aggressive pricing is the only saviour for Safari which IMO is 1 lac (or lesser) over Harrier is reasonable. With the upcoming launches (specially Mahindra XUV500 with rumored ADAS, 4WD/AWD and all bells and whistles), it is not an easy road ahead.

If Tata price this close to Harrier, then some buyers might upgrade from Harrier to Safari (not everybody fancy 6/7 seater) and money remains with Tata only. But if they price it on higher side then people will look for other competitors which are perceived to be better value for money in the price sensitive country.

Last edited by Beelzebub : 30th January 2021 at 00:04.
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Old 30th January 2021, 00:20   #204
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Something that could have been done to differentiate between the Harrier and Safari.

Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater-safari.jpg

1. Headlights moved up. (I really don't like this new trend of moving headlight down south.)
2. Different DRL.
3. Slightly different wheels.
4. The kink on C pillar straightened.

PS: Pardon my PS skills.
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Old 30th January 2021, 01:31   #205
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Lots of people would be scared of booking it right now if one remembers the version 1 harrier and the world of a difference that v2 made. Tata has of late tended to get better after 6-12 months of running that model on the production line and gathering enough owner and prospective owner feedback.

Better to wait it out and enjoy the fruits of iteration and improvement.
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Old 30th January 2021, 05:30   #206
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
^ Don't understand how anyone can expect a small premium over the Harrier.

The above is easily an additional 2 lakh rupees of value & utility.
If competition is able to provide this at a far lesser price , then why not Tata.

Also, not everyone who buys 7 seater uses those 7 seats in a frequent basis. I have rarely seen any XUV500 with all 7 people, at least not in metros who are their target audience. Innova yes, but that too which are used for taxis.

If purely value proposition theory was right and was working for Gravitas, then why the thread was dead until they renamed to Safari. Why those last minute moves ?

Practically, if Safari does not eat into Harrier sales, the new XUV500 and the competition will do that. And Mahindra do have that 2nd movers advantage.

As a buyer, I'll look for what value Safari provides over new gen XUV500 ( expecting that this new generation will ride better than its predecessor) and not what value Safari provides over Harrier.
And so will other buyers.

To be honest, if the price difference is high, I'll wait for the XUV500 launch. 1-2 months difference of buying is not that big thing, given we hold on to our cars for long time.

Tata could have and should have put more effort into this product. If Creta and Seltos can look different, if Duster and Terrano can look different, if Rapid and Vento can look different, why not Harrier and Safari.

Does it actually take 2 years to give those extra features like electronic parking, captain seats, rear disc brakes, boss mode lever, air con vents etc etc ? For which of these features, they have put their 100% effort for 2 years, visible years, the whole team. Where's that "Safari" effort ?

But you are right if you see Harrier vs Safari, in isolation. And I would have bought with that additional 2 lakh cost even for Gravitas, had XUV500 been not around. Now, I have choices to look for value.

Expecting a premium because its named Safari and not Gravitas, is like questioning my intelligence.

Its not that I'll be angry if they put that high a premium, its just that I'll be disappointed.

Last edited by turbo_delight : 30th January 2021 at 05:32.
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Old 30th January 2021, 06:26   #207
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanchari View Post
Safari is only around 6.3cms longer than Harrier? (459.8 to 466.1 ?) That seems pretty small difference, no wonder the boot is so less. Wonder if they could have lengthened it bit more?
New Safari is identical to the last gen Safari storme in length and it is a little narrower than the storme too.

Thinking about it, the storme was never a proper 7 seater. It was an ultra spacious 5 seater with an enormous boot. New Safari is a much better 7 seater in comparison, but the boot space has to be compromised.
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Old 30th January 2021, 06:37   #208
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
If competition is able to provide this at a far lesser price , then why not Tata.
Firstly the pricing hasnt been announced. Second, its why there is competition. Just buy the competitor which is cheaper. Whats the big deal? People see values in their own way and not everyone's definition of value is the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Also, not everyone who buys 7 seater uses those 7 seats in a frequent basis. I have rarely seen any XUV500 with all 7 people, at least not in metros who are their target audience. Innova yes, but that too which are used for taxis.
Then why would you not buy the Harrier which will be cheaper? I want a 4 bedroom house but I wont be using the 4th bedroom much and therefore it should be priced the same as a 3 bedroom house. Quite some logic that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
If purely value proposition theory was right and was working for Gravitas, then why the thread was dead until they renamed to Safari. Why those last minute moves ?
To churn up interest including whinging. Any publicity is publicity and they have succeeded at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Practically, if Safari does not eat into Harrier sales, the new XUV500 and the competition will do that. And Mahindra do have that 2nd movers advantage.
Why are you so worried about the competition? Are you really that worried for Tata?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
As a buyer, I'll look for what value Safari provides over new gen XUV500 ( expecting that this new generation will ride better than its predecessor) and not what value Safari provides over Harrier.
And so will other buyers.
The new XUV500 isnt out yet let alone its pricing or how good or bad it is compared to the last version so what is your speculation based on? Mahindra's brilliant track record for designing good looking cars with awesome ride and handling? Not everyone views value in the same way. I might place looks higher than a slightly tighter third row, someone else might not. If car buying was a purely objective rational decision, no luxury car would ever sell, sedans would still rule over small hatchbacks on tilts aka small SUV's etc etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
To be honest, if the price difference is high, I'll wait for the XUV500 launch. 1-2 months difference of buying is not that big thing, given we hold on to our cars for long time.
You should. Tata will not price its cars at what you are willing to pay. They will, though, price their cars at what the market is willing to pay keeping in mind their profitability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Tata could have and should have put more effort into this product. If Creta and Seltos can look different, if Duster and Terrano can look different, if Rapid and Vento can look different, why not Harrier and Safari.
Hyundai and Kia are two "different" manufacturers even though they have one parent and you will agree that Harrier/Safari looks nothing like the Discovery Sport its based on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Does it actually take 2 years to give those extra features like electronic parking, captain seats, rear disc brakes, boss mode lever, air con vents etc etc ? For which of these features, they have put their 100% effort for 2 years, visible years, the whole team. Where's that "Safari" effort ?
So what is the reasonable amount of time they should have taken? So when exactly did they start? Did they start the same day Harrier was launched?

P.S. Designing an elongated car based on the same platform and not spoiling its look, adding additional strengthening to the chassis to make sure it can take added GVM yet not become heavier so as to compromise everything else, tuning dynamics for additional load, tuning the suspension and handling, testing the changes for additional load on the engine + gearbox + brakes, validation testing in different weather conditions and temperature and humidity, validation testing for different road conditions, testing for additional features such as electronic parking brakes, changes to wiring to account for additional electronics, validation testing for electronics in real world conditions plus weather testing, re-tooling the factory for new variants, getting brand new dies for the sheet metal changes and perhaps new hydraulic presses too, changes to robots/adding additional robots for extra welds plus glues, validation of vendors who will supply to the OEM, marketing, customer research etc etc. I am sure I have missed some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
But you are right if you see Harrier vs Safari, in isolation. And I would have bought with that additional 2 lakh cost even for Gravitas, had XUV500 been not around. Now, I have choices to look for value.
XUV isn't around yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Expecting a premium because its named Safari and not Gravitas, is like questioning my intelligence.
Who says premium is just for the name? Didn't you just say and I quote...

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
those extra features like electronic parking, captain seats, rear disc brakes, boss mode lever, air con vents etc etc
So how is the premium for Safari given Safari wasn't a premium brand to begin with? Besides do they have a gun to your head? It is a free market, you are free to buy whichever car you please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Its not that I'll be angry if they put that high a premium, its just that I'll be disappointed.
I am sure Tata would know it when they decide on the pricing and are ready to "disappoint" some customers.

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2021 at 07:17. Reason: Please be calm, polite & respectful even in debate. STRICTLY NO PERSONAL ATTACKS or rude posts on Team-BHP
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Old 30th January 2021, 06:45   #209
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

The same old comments keep on coming.

First one: this is not the "real" Safari. Deal with it. It is a Safari, Tata owns the brand, they named it the Safari. Regarding the old body on frame contraption, thank god the new one is not that, else Tata would expect to sell 100 Safaris a year.

Second: won't the sunroof compromise the structural integrity? Hello is Xi jinping coming and holding the Chinese Hector's roof together in a crash? These sort of questions only occur when Tata makes a sunroof, the rest of the world can make big holes in the roof and we happily put our kids out of it at a 100kmph without a care.

Third: No 4*4. Again being said by folks who never take any car off-road. The proof of this lies in the fact that 4*4 sales make about 2% of all suv sales in India. The same folks will cry of poor fuel economy of an awd or 4*4 is provided.
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Old 30th January 2021, 07:30   #210
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Re: Driven : 2021 Tata Safari XZA+ 6 seater

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Third: No 4*4
Looking at some Harrier videos on Youtube it seems that the New-gen Safari will be much better than a 4x2 Storme in commonly faced sticky situations like slush etc due to the ESP modes. Not sure of the effect of RWD vs FWD though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
New Safari is identical to the last gen Safari storme in length and it is a little narrower than the storme too.
.
As per the table, new gen Safari will be longer and wider than the Storme while being shorter.
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