[PatienceWins]

Nice review.
Good to know that the good old ride and handling is very much there.

[revved_up]

Have the bookings for MJD started.. any idea what is the delivery time like?

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Now, who wouldn't vote Italian on that?

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Now, who wouldn't vote Tata on that?

Arey yeh to dharam sankat mein daal diya aapne...!!

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by amit

but for all those who are flaming Palio's interior quality, do you realise how ergonomic and thoughtful the interiors are laid out?

Yes Amit, I do. I know for a fact that the accelerator and the brake are so close together in the Palio that one can easily hit both of them together. Or maybe I just have really big feet.

This is because the footwell is ridiculously small. Anyone with a shoe size > 9 will find it difficult to manage the pedals, until they get used to it. Or until they stop driving other cars.

While on the subject of power window buttons, the ones on the Palio are hosted on some sort of pod (not built into a ledge on the door trim that also includes an arm rest, unlike other cars). They do not fall naturally to hand if your arm is on the door/door sill - one has to search for them.

I could go on like this, but then you're so used to the car that you will not notice these. Its a bit like I dont find the Safari's clutch pedal to be heavy anymore (I did, the first time around) but a person driving it for the first time will still find it heavy.

When you say a car is ergonomic, it should mean that you are instantly comfortable when you sit inside and all controls are naturally reachable without requiring any significant adjustment on the driver's part. The Palio and the Indica (the latter because of its ridiculously high steering wheel) are hardly the epitomes of ergonomics. The most ergonomic hatch (IMVHO) I have driven in India is the Hyundai Getz.

[Raajiv]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Yes Amit, I do. I know for a fact that the accelerator and the brake are so close together in the Palio that one can easily hit both of them together. Or maybe I just have really big feet.

This is because the footwell is ridiculously small. Anyone with a shoe size > 9 will find it difficult to manage the pedals, until they get used to it. Or until they stop driving other cars.

While on the subject of power window buttons, the ones on the Palio are hosted on some sort of pod (not built into a ledge on the door trim that also includes an arm rest, unlike other cars). They do not fall naturally to hand if your arm is on the door/door sill - one has to search for them.

I could go on like this, but then you're so used to the car that you will not notice these. Its a bit like I dont find the Safari's clutch pedal to be heavy anymore (I did, the first time around) but a person driving it for the first time will still find it heavy.

When you say a car is ergonomic, it should mean that you are instantly comfortable when you sit inside and all controls are naturally reachable without requiring any significant adjustment on the driver's part. The Palio and the Indica (the latter because of its ridiculously high steering wheel) are hardly the epitomes of ergonomics. The most ergonomic hatch (IMVHO) I have driven in India is the Hyundai Getz.

Steer,

Have you ever had a chance to drive the i10?It is perfect on the i.

Just let me know your comments if you happen to get a TD.

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I know for a fact that the accelerator and the brake are so close together in the Palio that one can easily hit both of them together. Or maybe I just have really big feet.

This is because the footwell is ridiculously small. Anyone with a shoe size > 9 will find it difficult to manage the pedals, until they get used to it. Or until they stop driving other cars.

I am hearing this for the first time!
Wondering why none of the TD reports of Palio on this forum mentioned this!

[PatienceWins]

I agree that the built quality of Palio is good. But I disagree with the ergonomics. We had a diesel Palio and it was gem of a vehicle in terms of build quality, ride, handling, driveability and power. If taken care properly it would easily go for 2 lakh kilometers. But the sad part was that Fiat would not allow to keep the vehicle for long with their legendary after sales support.

But in terms of ergonomics the main pain points were:
The pedals are very close.

The steering was not tilt adjustable. The steering is quite high and not suitable for highway driving.

The dashboard is inclined with a peculiar design. Difficult to store things and reach out from drivers seat.

Very few cubby holes to store things. Getz is very good in this respect.

Originally Posted by finneyp

I am hearing this for the first time!
Wondering why none of the TD reports of Palio on this forum mentioned this!

I think it has to do with height of the person and size of the foot.

I am 6' 2" tall with long foot. It is difficult until you get used to it.

[abhibh]

I am not bashing up FIAT. I always loved Palio. It was my opinion that i think the interiors are not at all great considering the interiors of Swift and old Palio. And i never said TATA gave FIAT interiors or because of TATA-FIAT JV TATA has a role to play with bad quality interiors.

By saying FIAT has gone TATA way i meant they are not improving their interiors unlike TATA and the interior quality has decreased from the earlier Palios.

Regarding engine vibrations and noise i can't say much, but as so many of you are saying that FIAT engines always get better after run in it might be the case.

EDIT: As Steeroid said yes the break and accelerator and close to each other comparing other cars. I didnt had any problems as i m just 5'10 but my friend was 6'2 and he did had some problems but he adapted pretty well.

[deepakhon]

My comments inline in bold...

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

But in terms of ergonomics the main pain points were:
The pedals are very close.

I sometimes thought so, especially when using one pair of shoes I have. Otherwise, I have not found this issue. I am around the average height of 5'5".

The dashboard is inclined with a peculiar design. Difficult to store things and reach out from drivers seat.

Agree with you on this one.

Very few cubby holes to store things. Getz is very good in this respect.

Cubbyholes are very few. It is really thoughtless of Fiat to provide room for bottles on the tray of the glove box.

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I think it has to do with height of the person and size of the foot.

I am 6' 2" tall with long foot. It is difficult until you get used to it.

I am 6' tall with a bit long foot (use No.9 shoes), but didn't face any difficulties using the Accl & brake pedals.

[manson]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I know for a fact that the accelerator and the brake are so close together in the Palio that one can easily hit both of them together.

Exactly the problem i faced with the Santro when i had the Sierra Turbo for my daily use. That was one car i hated to drive, which meant i must have not driven it more than 20 times in two years of having it.
Would prefer my base model Zen over a the 'fully loaded' Zip Drive Santro if my Sierra wasnt ever around.
These TATAS really tend to pamper you in terms of space.

manson.

[codemarauder]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Gear box was not much to talk about i had problem slotting 1st and 3rd gear but only 2 times but yes still the problem is there. 5th gear was pretty smooth.

I own a Stile 1.6 sport and its gearbox was a bit hard initially when I tried to engage 2nd and 3rd gears, but it smoothened out within 1000 kms of run. I think it is normal.

When i started the car i was clearly able to make out it was a diesel. There was clear sound inside the cabin during idling but on the move it was quiet smooth and felt like swift. One can even feel a bit of vibration on the floor. Not as refined as Swift.

And when I start 1.6, people ask if it is diesel IMHO, both of these issues which are mentioned as shortcomings are characteristic traits of a Palio.

[PatchyBoy]

Originally Posted by finneyp

I am hearing this for the first time!
Wondering why none of the TD reports of Palio on this forum mentioned this!

I remember reading this mentioned in one of the reviews and specifically checked when I bought the car. I am 5' 8" and wear a size 8 shoe, but did not find this issue. Ever. Not even on my test drive.

I made it a point to wear my Lee Cooper ankle length hiking boots, with a 1.5 inch thick sole for the test drive.

Will try to get photos / measurements of the space between the pedals of different cars and post a comparision.

Cheers,
Rajan

[spadival]

erm... I for one, would not buy a car just because it has more cubbyholes or because the pedals are miles apart. I would rather consider the whole package and see if I can live with some of its "defiencies".

Steer, V1p3r - There are as many Fiat-haters as there are Fiat-lovers in this forum. While I cant identify who are the other haters, you two fit that description rather nicely

[codemarauder]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Yes Amit, I do. I know for a fact that the accelerator and the brake are so close together in the Palio that one can easily hit both of them together. Or maybe I just have really big feet.

I agree with you that when one is used to driving a particular vehicle, then s/he needs a little time to get accustomed to some other vechicle.

My shoe size is 10+ and I find Palio pedals being positioned thoughtfully. It is put close for heel-toe movement. When I was in bumper to bumper traffic, only then I realised it for the first time. Keep the heels where they are and simply rotate the foot by 20 degrees to brake. It helps prevent straining your right thigh...

Edit: I am 5'11" and everything seems ergonomic to me except the lack of lumbar support. May be I have got used to the car and have become too much obsessed with Fiat - a new Fiat Fan.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

While on the subject of power window buttons, the ones on the Palio are hosted on some sort of pod (not built into a ledge on the door trim that also includes an arm rest, unlike other cars). They do not fall naturally to hand if your arm is on the door/door sill - one has to search for them.

Only the buttons for rear power windows are in the central consol so that the co-driver can also operate them, reducing the driver's workload a bit. It's a boon when driving with wife and naughty kids - there's lesser distraction for the driver. However, when you're driving alone, yes, it's better to have all the buttons on the driver's door. Best would be to have these buttons at both the places!

Worst is Indica - all buttons in the central consol, nothing on the driver's door, not even the button for the driver door power window!

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I could go on like this, but then you're so used to the car that you will not notice these. When you say a car is ergonomic, it should mean that you are instantly comfortable when you sit inside and all controls are naturally reachable without requiring any significant adjustment on the driver's part. The Palio and the Indica (the latter because of its ridiculously high steering wheel) are hardly the epitomes of ergonomics.

Except for the pedals being a bit too close, I find the Palio's (or rather Adventure's) ergonomics and features excellent. Adventure has tilt steering too and visibility from the driver's seat is much better than in Palio.