[phamilyman]

Suman ji, lovely logic as always, and I have no reply.

RGeo: He has promised to write up something similar about the Indica Xeta. Though from our calls, I am sure it'll get less than half of any of these cars. I haven't posted any of my views - just the disclaimer that my own individual decision was made on seeing the Tata Fiat workshop I would've had to go to!

And if my own VDi order gets inanely delayed, I'll go back to the SDX, but swear to God, I'll first take the SWM out to booze and a couple of extra Gandhis each time to save me the hassle. That still doesn't allay my fear of the Rs 12,000 rear bumper!!

[tsk1979]

I would be wary of reviews by people who "Thrash cars for a living".
Currently I drive something which is a true boat by car standards, but in normal driving, I am yet to reach the limits of its handling.
Even on mountain roads in an indica, you would reach the limits of passengers tolerance before reaching the limits of the cars handling.
So when you test drive a car, use some common sense.
How many times would maximum corner exit speeds matter. Do you let the tail slide on every flyover exit?
you are not buying a car for racing, but for normal driving.
So things which matter are
1. Fuel efficiency
2. Driveability
3. Ability to soak up bumps
4. After sales service
5. Build quality
6. Comfort.

So drive it yourself. Just because car A can exit a corner 10kmh faster is meaningless, unless you go to track days every week.
If you find that it matches your requirement, buy it. The only thing which you can figure out online are A.S.S, real work fuel efficiency etc.,
Things like handling, ride comfort and other driving related bits are best experienced first hand.

for you swift may make more sense, because I think you are buying something for touring himalayas, right? Maruti has a service center in every nook and corner of this country. Fiat is better build and can take more abuse, ditto for indica.
So weigh your pros and cons.
When you are crawling over mountain roads, praying that the underbody does not kiss anywhere, what matters more is the strength of the sump guard, and not slalom timings

Originally Posted by suman

Far too many 7s, 8s & 9s, that's my take

None of the three models are near perfect in any way so why the high ratings, what say?

IMO
the numbers should not be looked at as absolute. they just illustrate the difference between the cars.
I suppose the high numbers also illustrate the level of satisfaction that the Test driver felt.
it would differ for you or me. we might give 4s 5s and 6s a lot more, but the difference between one car's score and the other might still be very similar (not identical) to our mysterious test driver

[suman]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

for you swift may make more sense, because I think you are buying something for touring himalayas, right? Maruti has a service center in every nook and corner of this country. Fiat is better build and can take more abuse, ditto for indica.

I was mentioning something similar to Mr Gandhi last week - a service center in every nook & corner is fine but is there a guarantee that you will get the same level of knowledge,competence, equipment & workmanship in the far reaches of Ladakh as you will in the air-conditioned lounges of Mere Apra Auto in Sector 14, G'gaon? I read a recent travelogue of a gentleman on a Travel forum that I'm a member of - his Baleno sprung a leak in the sump, eventually it was the Indian Army that bailed him out, not Maruti Udyog!

Originally Posted by tsk1979

When you are crawling over mountain roads, praying that the underbody does not kiss anywhere, what matters more is the strength of the sump guard, and not slalom timings

Well said, by the way

[supremeBaleno]

suman, you have a point about service competency not being same at all service centres. But ain't something better than nothing ? A Tata showroom in a far nook of the country would mostly stock Indica/Indigo parts (perfectly logical too) and comparitively much lesser parts of the top-end Safari. But if you are stuck there, it atleast helps that there is a service centre there, won't it ? Especially if it is a repair issue (not requiring spares) which they might be able to address.

And yes, tsk1979, well put.

[phamilyman]

tsk bhai,

Let's grab a smoke or a peg or lassi and take a step back. This is just something which a friend did, I found it cool, and shared. Would request to neither take it too seriously - like Anup saab keeps saying - a car is as much a heart choice as a mind decision.

That said, my own purchase is a completely different plan. Not getting into it right now

And no, he's not an auto mag guy (i have friends there too) - he's a guy who actually tests them for a living. Whose pushed proper european SUVs around, or desi ones, or even the likes of Swift AWD among others aorund on test tracks - but he just gave a whole raft of criteria.

To my mind, the utility is in choosing a smaller consideration set (like you've done) for each one - to their own. Nothing more, or less

[blue_pulsar]

Wow, nice review. All points have equal weightage here. i.e, 1*10. It is upto the individual readers to prioritize the points they want. For e.g, if build quality is of supreme importance, make it 5*10. If cornering is of little importance, make it 2*10. If safety is more important, make it 6*10 etc.

Most of the points are correct except(IMO)

Gearshift quality - 8/8/8
Gearshift feel - 8/7/8
Gearshift throw/ease - 7/7/8

According to me:
Gearshift quality - 8/7/6
Gearshift feel - 8/8/6
Gearshift throw/ease - 9/8/7

Rear seat comfort - 8/8/8

According to me:
Rear seat comfort - 6/6/8

The Swifts have a sporty gearshift whereas the Palio is rubbery. Both are precise though.

The Palio beats the Swift easily on rear seat. Swift has pretty bad and flat rear seat.

[suman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

suman, you have a point about service competency not being same at all service centres. But ain't something better than nothing ?

You didn't comment on the second part of my post - the incident with the Baleno took place up in the mountains, not too far from civilization but there really wasn't anyone around - other than the army.

They would bail me out too I hope (in my Safari I mean). By the way, the average Tata workshop in the Northern part of the country would stock Indica and Sumo and (to a lesser extent) Safari spares - maybe not so much Indigo specific ones.......

[harry10]

Originally Posted by iceman7

2. The SWIFT has pathetic leg room in the back. PERIOD. I am 6ft tall and i dread sitting in the back. That brings me to the front seat. Dont know how many of you have noticed, but, have you ever noticed the dashboard on the passenger side? No matter how much you push back the passenger seat, the pointed edge of the dashboard keeps staring at your knees. Wonder how it will impact in case of an accident.

I am 6.1 and when i drove it i was wondering the same as my knees were almost touching it. I do feel Maruti should had done something about the rear. Even 2 people of 6 feet sitting at the rear had to bend sideways a bit as the legs simply wont fit in!

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So things which matter are
1. Fuel efficiency
2. Driveability
3. Ability to soak up bumps
4. After sales service
5. Build quality
6. Comfort.

When you are crawling over mountain roads, praying that the underbody does not kiss anywhere, what matters more is the strength of the sump guard, and not slalom timings

If we consider the above points only for the judgement am sure Swift will win in most people's point of view here

[architect]

1. Take the ratings and then multiply them by an "importance factor" and you have your marks depending on your priorities in a car. Simple statistical method, you don't have be Duckworth-Lewis!

2. The ratings of the cars (leave the famous A.S.S. and the rear wiper-demister aside) is co-incidentally following the pricing. Cheaper MJD scores less.

3. Would mark the Palio higher on the seating and boot space front, esp rear.

4. If you are stuck in a remote region because the friendly neighbourhood service station at Keylong doesn't have the replacement for your busted ECM, its understandable. But if they can't fix your alternator or replace a smashed headlight, then it's not worth it. That's where you could be better off with MSIL then TATA.

Sorry to go OT, but phamilyman, for your buying decision:

You can expect things to get better for Palio MJD owners with Indica V3 launched with the same engine. But not for Palio specific parts! Worse, how many have bought the Indica Dicor? I wonder how successful the V3 will be. If it is successful, then the Palio MJD is as good as discontinued IMO.

[phamilyman]

yaar

sab ke sab load le rahe ho. If this triggers the usual responses, or adds to the noise, let's shut the darn thread down. I just thought it to be interesting for whatever it's worth, and more of a curiosity. Why so Serious?

[hrag]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

let's shut the darn thread down. I just thought it to be interesting for whatever it's worth, and more of a curiosity. Why so Serious?

Nobody can test better than TBHP. We need a chest thumping / ape cry emoticon - something like Tim Allen / Tim the Tool Man Taylor in "Home Improvement".

If you had said my friend (without any qualifications) rated the cars this way, it would have been a normal thread or merged with something else. But a man who thrashes cars for a living? Ooh, we cannot let that pass.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by suman

You didn't comment on the second part of my post - the incident with the Baleno took place up in the mountains, not too far from civilization but there really wasn't anyone around - other than the army.
.......

I did not see anything there to comment about. I mean, yeah a Baleno sprung a sump leak in the mountains, the army helps, so ? Are you intending that MUL should be having service centres every few kms ? If it is a place up in the mountains with no one really around, any auto company would think it not worth its time/effort/money to have a centre there.

Originally Posted by suman

By the way, the average Tata workshop in the Northern part of the country would stock Indica and Sumo and (to a lesser extent) Safari spares - maybe not so much Indigo specific ones.......

Average does not mean that the stocks would be same at all workshops. Each one could differ in what they stock, based on their calculations/presumptions about what kind of vehicles are there in that area. Sumo, yes, but I doubt they would stock up on Safari. Given the low sales numbers, it dont make much sense.

[suman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Are you intending that MUL should be having service centres every few kms ? If it is a place up in the mountains with no one really around, any auto company would think it not worth its time/effort/money to have a centre there.

I was merely highlighting the misconception that Maruti has a service center just about everywhere. It doesn't. This is the main Manali-Leh highway by the way.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Sumo, yes, but I doubt they would stock up on Safari. Given the low sales numbers, it dont make much sense.

Remember, you were talking North India here - that is where the Safari sells the most. In the rural belt, you'd find more Safaris than Indigos......

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by suman

I was merely highlighting the misconception that Maruti has a service center just about everywhere. It doesn't.

It might not have a service centre everywhere, but it does have much more of them in India than any other manufacturer, which means the chances of being in the vicinity of one is more than what it would be for the competition.

Originally Posted by suman

Remember, you were talking North India here - that is where the Safari sells the most. In the rural belt, you'd find more Safaris than Indigos......

Oh OK, I was not aware of that.