[Ashley Nair]

Calling the VLX not having Jeep Character and all is not called for here. Just like you call the VLX un-Jeep, someone can also say that the DI Turbo is tut-tut turbo engine.

Sorry I missed your observation(or dictation, rather)till now.I was thinking that i was within my rights when saying what I felt about a particular variant.In future I will place my opinions first before the CRDIians for their approval .
When I said that the DI is more befitting to the character of Bolero, I meant that.VLX is only a station wagon with a refined CRDI engine and in that category, it is excellent. It doesn't have the elementary Jeep characterstics ie, short gearing, out and out low end torque, which is mandatory for offroading of any sort. The CRDI oomph is available only after 2000 RPM( jut like in swift DDIS) and that makes the VLX more of a car or softroader and not a JEEP.And if the CRDI behaves like a car and you like that behaviour,then why and how could you call it a JEEP and why are you people irritated when it is called un-JEEP? One cannot keep the powertrain constantly in high revs when climbing an incline or while off-roading. And that is why M&M do not offer a 4x4 version for it, even as a custom vehicle( DI turbo 4x4 is available upon placing special order provided you are willing to wait for 2 months and to drain your pocket).And those"someone"who say the DI Turbo is tut-tut will have to be counted from this Forum alone-to see the number of people who swears for the DI, just keep a watch on the road.

Then as to the referring of "Marshal" as "tractor". Well it is a tractor and I own one. But that tractor has carried me for 85,000/- Kms without a single complaint or breakdown and it's roar is music to my ears and I personally know another so called "tractor" which has run 3,50,000 kms and still going strong.The guys at Mahindra service,Kottayam tell that these "tractors" can easily do 5,00,000 kms before rebuilding and all their service vehicles have these "tractor" engines.The cost of rebuilding these "tractor" engines is only Rs30,000/-but CRDi engines( I am qouting the cost of a scorpio engine) cost Rs 75,000/- for an overhaul, yours truly!

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by Ashley Nair

Sorry I missed your observation(or dictation, rather)till now.I was thinking that i was within my rights when saying what I felt about a particular variant.In future I will place my opinions first before the CRDIians for their approval .
When I said that the DI is more befitting to the character of Bolero, I meant that.VLX is only a station wagon with a refined CRDI engine and in that category, it is excellent. It doesn't have the elementary Jeep characterstics ie, short gearing, out and out low end torque, which is mandatory for offroading of any sort. The CRDI oomph is available only after 2000 RPM( jut like in swift DDIS) and that makes the VLX more of a car or softroader and not a JEEP.And if the CRDI behaves like a car and you like that behaviour,then why and how could you call it a JEEP and why are you people irritated when it is called un-JEEP? One cannot keep the powertrain constantly in high revs when climbing an incline or while off-roading. And that is why M&M do not offer a 4x4 version for it, even as a custom vehicle( DI turbo 4x4 is available upon placing special order provided you are willing to wait for 2 months and to drain your pocket).And those"someone"who say the DI Turbo is tut-tut will have to be counted from this Forum alone-to see the number of people who swears for the DI, just keep a watch on the road.

Then as to the referring of "Marshal" as "tractor". Well it is a tractor and I own one. But that tractor has carried me for 85,000/- Kms without a single complaint or breakdown and it's roar is music to my ears and I personally know another so called "tractor" which has run 3,50,000 kms and still going strong.The guys at Mahindra service,Kottayam tell that these "tractors" can easily do 5,00,000 kms before rebuilding and all their service vehicles have these "tractor" engines.The cost of rebuilding these "tractor" engines is only Rs30,000/-but CRDi engines( I am qouting the cost of a scorpio engine) cost Rs 75,000/- for an overhaul, yours truly!

My word !! Finally 1 vote someone thinks like me

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by Ashley Nair

Sorry I missed your observation(or dictation, rather)till now.I was thinking that i was within my rights when saying what I felt about a particular variant.In future I will place my opinions first before the CRDIians for their approval .
When I said that the DI is more befitting to the character of Bolero, I meant that.VLX is only a station wagon with a refined CRDI engine and in that category, it is excellent. It doesn't have the elementary Jeep characterstics ie, short gearing, out and out low end torque, which is mandatory for offroading of any sort. The CRDI oomph is available only after 2000 RPM( jut like in swift DDIS) and that makes the VLX more of a car or softroader and not a JEEP.And if the CRDI behaves like a car and you like that behaviour,then why and how could you call it a JEEP and why are you people irritated when it is called un-JEEP? One cannot keep the powertrain constantly in high revs when climbing an incline or while off-roading. And that is why M&M do not offer a 4x4 version for it, even as a custom vehicle( DI turbo 4x4 is available upon placing special order provided you are willing to wait for 2 months and to drain your pocket).And those"someone"who say the DI Turbo is tut-tut will have to be counted from this Forum alone-to see the number of people who swears for the DI, just keep a watch on the road.

Then as to the referring of "Marshal" as "tractor". Well it is a tractor and I own one. But that tractor has carried me for 85,000/- Kms without a single complaint or breakdown and it's roar is music to my ears and I personally know another so called "tractor" which has run 3,50,000 kms and still going strong.The guys at Mahindra service,Kottayam tell that these "tractors" can easily do 5,00,000 kms before rebuilding and all their service vehicles have these "tractor" engines.The cost of rebuilding these "tractor" engines is only Rs30,000/-but CRDi engines( I am qouting the cost of a scorpio engine) cost Rs 75,000/- for an overhaul, yours truly!

OK , on a serious note, he is right, thats what i had tried to explain, the crde is more of a car or a soft roader SUV, for a vehicle to classify as JEEP, it should match some basic criteria such as a good low end torque, an engine that is maintenance free, trouble free, fit for any job thrown at it, u put it in 1st or 2nd gear n just release the clutch, u'll be surprised to see how beautifully and effortlessly it climbs even steep inclines on its own without any need for slightest acceleration. We are not here to debate which is more faster or smoother or latest technology, there are loads of new gen cars and other high end SUV's to compete for that position, what we are looking at is a 6Lakh range basic jeep, which initially was not meant to race, but deliver like a humble modest practical uncomplicated no nonsense minus the frills vehicle, in other words, the main reason a JEEP was developed and segregated from other vehicles, which was never on the basis of speed/pick up/smooth noiseless engine. But anyway this topic is very controvertial and its better to talk something else, both are good vehicles, just need two very different people to appreciate them, there's audience for both depending on personal likes and requirements and budget.
Dude there is 1 thing however, you say DI 4x4 is available, i dont think so, or maybe i'm not properly informed. Last time i checked with M&M in Aug '08, i was told that 4x4 came only with the IDI Peugeot engine, and if i wanted it i had to place an order for it, and would take a bit longer to be delivered, but there was no 4x4 with the DI engine...dont know if they have it now though, would have 100% gone with the 4x4 version if they had it!!

[Ashley Nair]

u put it in 1st or 2nd gear n just release the clutch, u'll be surprised to see how beautifully and effortlessly it climbs even steep inclines on its own without any need for slightest acceleration.

Exactly what is to be expected from a machine with a certain extent of offroading ability! Many may argue that it is only a matter of driving style but whatever may be your style of driving,if you attempt any offroading with the revcounter above 2000( which is necessary for the CRDi to do some serious climbing without stalling), you are sure to land in happy hunting grounds in an uncomfortably short span of time !

what we are looking at is a 6Lakh range basic jeep, which initdially was not meant to race, but deliver like a humble modest practical uncomplicated no nonsense minus the frills vehicle, in other words, the main reason a JEEP was developed and segregated from other vehicles, which was never on the basis of speed/pick up/smooth noiseless engine.

Ideal definition for a JEEP

But anyway this topic is very controvertial and its better to talk something else, both are good vehicles, just need two very different people to appreciate them, there's audience for both depending on personal likes and requirements and budget.

Right again and fair too; but it is an attitude to be reciprocated .

Dude there is 1 thing however, you say DI 4x4 is available, i dont think so, or maybe i'm not properly informed. Last time i checked with M&M in Aug '08, i was told that 4x4 came only with the IDI Peugeot engine, and if i wanted it i had to place an order for it, and would take a bit longer to be delivered, but there was no 4x4 with the DI engine...dont know if they have it now though, would have 100% gone with the 4x4 version if they had it!!

[/quote]
Got the information that DI 4X4 is available upon special order from the Mahindra dealer at Alappuzha, my hometown. Told me to book the vehicle by paying 200000K initially and warned that I will have to spend 100000K more than the regular 4X2 SLE. Also asked me to follow the path of one Goutham Gambhir but when I showed them a somewhat unproportionate hole in my shirt pocket, most sympathetically advised to go for an old 4X4 MM540. Jokes apart, I confess that my source of information is as stated supra, which may not be correct afterall.

[MudMover]

Hi, this ownership thread was started by someone who bought a CRDE bolero and wanted to share his experiences about it. Hence basically -- THIS IS A CRDE BOLERO THREAD, so if DI folks and Scorp dudes log in to this thread hoping to hear praises about their respective rides, it's like a Pakistani walking into the Indian Parliment (hypothetical situation) and expecting to hear the MPs singing the Pakistani national anthem -- NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

This thread is already begining to look like a paragraph-writting contest so I don't want to add to the clutter . I'll just leave a video of what I use my VLX for (except during the rainy season):

YouTube - Gudalur Estate Ride

Is that a Car? Is that a station wagon? Hmmm... definitely not a jeep. Is it a flying saucer?!

[Ashley Nair]

Is that a Car? Is that a station wagon? Hmmm... definitely not a jeep. Is it a flying saucer?!

It's a good CAR going through the driveway of a farmhouse, definitely!

[MudMover]

Originally Posted by Ashley Nair

It's a good CAR going through the driveway of a farmhouse, definitely!

If that's looks like a driveway then Sachin Tendulkar is the world's best marble player! Look, I can keep trading one-liners till we both get banned from this forum or this thread gets locked. But the fact is that M&M has decided to put a more powerful engine into this JEEP (whether you like it or not) and though it you might say it has become un-jeepish & car-like, nothing detracts from the fact that it still LOOKS like a JEEP, SOUNDS like a JEEP and MOVES like a JEEP. The day M&M smoothens the pointy edges of this vehicle, cuts down the GC, adds a boot and has a female voice prompt, that day I will call this JEEP a CAR! Until then, the BOLERO VLX will remain a member of the JEEP fraternity - however unpalatable to fellow 'JEEPERS'.


MODS please note that all my future responses to this conversation will be just a sign... because basically that's what this thread has turned into.

[headers]

Hey MM, Chill. Some guys cant accept the Bolero "Storm through". Hence the questions.

There is nothing wrong even if M&M brings out a new rounded vehicle and calls it by any name.

The fact that it can go where other vehicles dare not is by itself good enough to distinguish itself.

[Ashley Nair]

Look, I can keep trading one-liners till we both get banned from this forum or this thread gets locked.

Attack is the best form of defence. Pleez don't take it as a personal matter, friend. This forum is for discussion, and the discussion may get hot over the vehicles, but it is, in no case,against any felow team-bhpian. Anything I have said is upon the vehicle(and I stand to what I said) and it is no reflection upon YOU.

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by Ashley Nair

Attack is the best form of defence. Pleez don't take it as a personal matter, friend. This forum is for discussion, and the discussion may get hot over the vehicles, but it is, in no case,against any felow team-bhpian. Anything I have said is upon the vehicle(and I stand to what I said) and it is no reflection upon YOU.

Ur being a good sport, keep it up !!

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by MudMover

If that's looks like a driveway then Sachin Tendulkar is the world's best marble player! Look, I can keep trading one-liners till we both get banned from this forum or this thread gets locked. But the fact is that M&M has decided to put a more powerful engine into this JEEP (whether you like it or not) and though it you might say it has become un-jeepish & car-like, nothing detracts from the fact that it still LOOKS like a JEEP, SOUNDS like a JEEP and MOVES like a JEEP. The day M&M smoothens the pointy edges of this vehicle, cuts down the GC, adds a boot and has a female voice prompt, that day I will call this JEEP a CAR! Until then, the BOLERO VLX will remain a member of the JEEP fraternity - however unpalatable to fellow 'JEEPERS'.


MODS please note that all my future responses to this conversation will be just a sign... because basically that's what this thread has turned into.

Strictly speaking, it is a drive way only, not a highway, maybe a muddy one of a farm or farmhouse. Of course the built and the ground clearance and other technalities (except the engine part) of both are exactly same so driving on unforgiving surfaces would be same experience in both, except that the DI or IDI will be better in off road conditions just like the CRDe would be definitely better on a highway with its better acceleration. Why cant we accept facts rather than defending and saying what we own is better? I admit DI is not good on highway and for overtaking, if i admit its weakness, and also recognise its exceptional capabilities, why cant you guys? We are here to discuss machines, not any mud sliding on each other, lets learn, accept, share, and acknowledge what's correct without any bias and egoism. Let us have open minds gentlemen....thats all i gotta say, CHEERS !!

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by headers

Hey MM, Chill. Some guys cant accept the Bolero "Storm through". Hence the questions.

There is nothing wrong even if M&M brings out a new rounded vehicle and calls it by any name.

The fact that it can go where other vehicles dare not is by itself good enough to distinguish itself.

Correct till some extent as the new STORM does storm on the highway, but in order to give it the boost of the higher speed and pick up, the pulling and hauling capability had to be compromised to an extent, you cant have everything pal, you win some and you lose some. So the STORM is more now in the category of a soft roader/highway cruiser, not the rustic sturdy typical JEEP, those JEEP roots are slowly being uprooted, sorry to say, again my personal opinion. Try yourself some time, rather experiment sometime going to a farm, in a field with lose mud or other similar terrain where u can really test a Vehicle's low end torque and off roading capability, try with both CRDe and with DI, and you will really find the DI much better equipped to handle it, u dont have to rev the engine all the time trying to get it out or avoiding it getting stuck, it will easily and effortlessly come out, all you have to do is manoeuvre it out, with the CRDE you will have to keep the engine RPM's too in the correct range too much or too less could get you stuck, so the gear, clutch and the accelerator paddle co-ordination will be more stressful in CRDE. That's my humble version of it, sorry if somebody disagrees with me, you have a righ to, PEACE !!

[MudMover]

Hey guys, I'm cool. Basically what each camp is trying to imply is that the particular variant of Bolero which they own is most suited to their specific user profile. The friction arose when one camp tried to project their variant as the best -- when actually the truth is that their variant is the best for THEM.

Ashley & Maheep, the above is my position. I admire the lengths to which you've gone to explain the technical logic of your view, but you have only convinced me that the CRDE was/is the best for me. Wow! the designers of the Bolero will be proud that their product has such die hard fans!

P.S: The best thing about using pseudonames is that nothing is personal!

[headers]

Originally Posted by maheep007

So the STORM is more now in the category of a soft roader/highway cruiser, not the rustic sturdy typical JEEP, those JEEP roots are slowly being uprooted, sorry to say, again my personal opinion. Try yourself some time, rather experiment sometime going to a farm, in a field with lose mud or other similar terrain where u can really test a Vehicle's low end torque and off roading capability, try with both CRDe and with DI, and you will really find the DI much better equipped to handle it,

Well, thats your version and driving ability sir!

Originally Posted by MudMover

Hey guys, I'm cool.

Yup, you are cool.

Now, I would like Maheep007 to define offroading and what it means to him.

I dont see any issue in handling a different kind of vehicle over a same terrain and get it out and My aim is not to let an engine idle while i steer it out

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by headers

Well, thats your version and driving ability sir!



Yup, you are cool.

Now, I would like Maheep007 to define offroading and what it means to him.

I dont see any issue in handling a different kind of vehicle over a same terrain and get it out and My aim is not to let an engine idle while i steer it out

Hi, off roading to me simply means when ur not cruising down on the highway with a well mettled road underneath you, the topography can be muddy, rocky, steep inclines, bad stretches which can be a combination of lose mud/sand, rocks, water logged way etc etc. i agree with you it depends on each individuals driving skills too in these terrains, but a good vehicle with an engine made to chug out good low end torque, is an added advantage, for example a tractor can do wonders in a field whereas you would be overexpecting if you expect a car to do the same. Dont take me for word to word, all i'm saying is some technical aspects do matter under different driving conditions, it does depend on each individual's driving skills too, a bad driver can get u stuck in a good proper 4x4 offroader, and a good driver can manage to get out of a tricky situation using his experience and good driving skills in a different vehicle. All i'm saying is some engines coupled with similar transmissions (complete powertrain) are better equipped to handle stress and are manufactured keeping in mind their functions, eg a tractors engine, its a great puller, can haul tonnes of load without any problem, but not designed to run on the freeway, the older mahindras and the DI are in a way similar, though not same, the are designed to haul, pull, the gear ratios too are designed to perform the functions of a load carrier, the 1st and 2nd gear have lot of power even on low RPM's. In the CRDe you would have to manipulate with the accelerator, gear, clutch to achieve what you can achieve with relatively much less effort with these older hauling engines, i'm guy who loves machines, all machines are different, all are good performers, in different leagues, some are meant to run, some to haul, some are made keeping in mind modern age technology some are intentionally kept the old way keeping in mind their functionality, thats the reason CRDe was never introduced in pick up versions and other commercial vehicles, it would be of no use there, and be actually a disservice to them. Hope i made some sense up there, and really hope you try to understand what i tried to explain without any personal ego/bias.