[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by vishalrao

@mkc15, itnerd, immortalz (and any other civic owners): How accurate are the odometer and speedometer? I think I only read somewhere that the speedo shows a little higher readings. I hope the odo is not too bad giving inflated mileage figures

The odo will be accurate so long as the rolling radius of the tyres are not changed. The odo is maintained by the ECU by counting the revs of the engine and calculating the distance by using the gearbox's final drive and the wheel rolling radius. The speedo however, is controlled by a sensor in the gearbox and is a little less accurate.

Your mileage numbers are very good I get around 8.5-9 on my A/T with 100% AC at 22degC and peak traffic driving and relatively short distances. But your numbers aren't so good that you should suspect odo accuracy - there are people who have coaxed 16KMPL+ from their A/T Civics on the forum.

[mkc15]

Originally Posted by thegman

Congratz on the purchase mkc15, the car looks simply awesome!
Im planning on buying either the altis or the civic before jan and wanted to know what you thought of the sheer driving performance of the Civic vs the Altis?

Thanx. From my TD of both, I would say both are excellent cars but in different ways. IMHO, if driving pleasure is the prime parameter, its a Civic without a doubt and if driving pleasure is one of the parameters, then its an Altis without a doubt. I would suggest, you take extensive TD of both and see which one ticks more marks for you.

Originally Posted by vishalrao

@mkc15: did you get the reverse/parking sensor fitted yet?

I'm yet to receive the letter from Honda, so no idea about the backup sensors. Will update you once I get them installed.

***********************************

From my 2 weeks of ownership experience with 690km of highway driving (560km on GQ and the rest on Mysore road) and 330km of city driving, here is what I have to say about Civic.

Ride and handling:
I would give 8/10 for the ride, 1 less for the thud that filters into the cabin at times at low speeds and other 1 is for what I haven't tested at med/high speeds yet. It consumes bad roads nicely without much body movement/vibrations (more so at med/high speeds). At times, it gives some thud sound (mostly due to the tyre landing hard on the surface). So far I haven't seen the rear bottomming out even at 115kmph over undulations(I dont know how old Civic fares here). Ofcourse the roads I have travelled were amazing, especially the Bangalore-Vellore/Kanchi GQ. I will have to put it under more tests.

Have I scraped any bump ? Sadly yes, but it was a real huge one and my mistake too. There is one massive bump on J.P.Nagar ring road approximately 1 signal away from the restaurant, 'Cable Car', which gave a slight scrape (no hit). As the car was full (5 persons but no luggage), I slowed down until the front cleared off and then released the brakes a little early. I think I need some time getting used to driving/controlling an AT on bumps.

Mid/high speed handling is awesome. I tried some curves at different speeds (ofcourse nothing like in ghats). With speeds upto 110/115kmph (didnt try faster than this) it feels absolutely safe, stable and well in control. I thoroughly enjoyed the steering feedback.

Changing lanes/sharp turns at high speeds feels so easy and the car feels so much in control. It simply honors everything you do with the steering. Body roll was very minimal and the way the weight transfer happens feels too good. Overall, I love the way it handles without a niggle.

Performance:
During the weekend drive on GQ, the car felt so much powerful (more so in 'S' mode) throughout, and the engine note/vibration that seeps into the cabin at 3K+ rpm is very addicting. Adding to all this fun was the cruise control. Tried cruise control on some straight open roads with cruise speed set at 105kmph in 'S' mode. I slowed the car down to around 65 kmph and then hit 'resume'. It kicked down to 3rd (I guess) and took the tacho to ~3k for a couple of seconds, and then kicked down to 2nd (I guess) and took it to 4K (for a couple of seconds) till it reached the set speed. It was a great feeling, it pulled like a rocket till 105kmph and then started cruising. If used carefully, cruise control can be a
lot of fun(and excellent FE too) especially on an AT car. However, I noticed one thing, a couple of times in 'D' mode (in 5th gear) at around 2500+ rpm, the rpm intermittently goes up by ~500. Is this the VTEC kicking in a little too early? (though I doubt) Is this possible at all?

Brakes:
It does inspire a lot of confidence at mid/high speeds even with 5 persons, but does not give enough feedback. It feels a bit inconsistent at times. Maybe it takes a while to get used to it. I haven't tried harsh braking yet. More on braking later.

FE:
Well, I haven't been able to do the manual method. But the indicator is showing 15.3kmpl over 570km highway driving and 13.5 over 666km city+highway driving (570km on highway). Even if its showing +1, I'm more than happy for ~14kmpl on highways for an auto with 5 persons, 100% AC(set to ~23 C on a hot day). When I reached Kanchi the odo was showing 16.8kmpl (over a range of around 280km). I think this is awesome if the meter accuracy turns out good.

I'm very happy overall with the car and even more happy because the run-in is completed (as per owner's handbook)! The odo reads 1057km and its time to book for 1st service.

Here are some minor nits.
> Power window lock on driver side door, locks the passenger windows even for the driver! (driver side window alone is allowed). I don't understand this logic at all.

> Security system does not beep/alarm, when the boot is opened with the key (when the car is locked).

> B-pillar is blacked-out using black stickers (and not very well finished), rather than by paint.

> Low-beam is too low. Sometimes it gets tough to see a bump ahead and slow down.

> Plastic around the steering column feels a bit unfinished

> Getting a feeble rattling noise from left door, need to get this fixed in 1st service.

> Internal rear-view mirror has a longer play between normal and dim positions (compared to Ikon's), a little uncomfortable to operate.

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by mkc15

> Power window lock on driver side door, locks the passenger windows even for the driver! (driver side window alone is allowed). I don't understand this logic at all.

This is the case with my Esteem as well and am pretty much used to it. Also, can you clarify if the driver side window has the auto roll up/roll down feature (upon flicking the switch up or down ) as opposed to holding the switch till the window rolls up or down fully?


Overall, nicely written review there.

[vishalrao]

Yes, there is "one touch" rollup/down action for the driver's window button...

BTW, I thought it is expected behaviour for the driver's lock to lock ALL passenger windows (or something I've missed) ?

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by vishalrao

BTW, I thought it is expected behaviour for the driver's lock to lock ALL passenger windows (or something I've missed) ?

Thats my understanding as well. Maybe it is different in some other cars. mkc can shed more light on this one, I suppose.

[rkbharat]

Congrats for Civic-san

BTW may be I am late, but I really liked the way Hand Brake is put it

[v.anand]

Originally Posted by mkc15

> B-pillar is blacked-out using black stickers (and not very well finished), rather than by paint.

The only Indian car (common segment of-course) that I have seen with good quality B-Pillar blacking is Ford Fusion. It carries a plastic enclosure thats attached to the pillar. Every other car carries cheap stickers.

[rr_zen]

The Civic I owned in the US had its B - pillars blackened out by stickers but I can vouch for its quality and workmanship. Used to look very neat without giving that cheap feeling.

[mkc15]

Originally Posted by rr_zen

Thats my understanding as well. Maybe it is different in some other cars. mkc can shed more light on this one, I suppose.

Actually in Ikon, it does not lock any window for the driver, but it locks for all passengers. This IMO is quite logical as the driver is the master control. I always thought this is the same on all cars and I never tested this feature on any car I have TDed.

I still wonder why the driver is not allowed to operate passenger windows. If he has to, then he needs to unlock all of them and then operate. While the driver is operating a window, all windows remain unlocked. Isn't it defeating the purpose of power-window-lock? (more so if the driver forgets to lock again).

[vishalrao]

Oh now i understand what you mean... right, the driver probably should be able to operate the passenger windows even when they are locked for the passengers themselves...

Edit:

Question about the mirror: can we close/retract the mirror physically from outside without using the buttons or will it break? (dont try it at home tho!)

Also, where can i get this "service manual" like it seems to have juicy information about cars as i've seen mentioned on other threads...

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by mkc15

However, I noticed one thing, a couple of times in 'D' mode (in 5th gear) at around 2500+ rpm, the rpm intermittently goes up by ~500. Is this the VTEC kicking in a little too early? (though I doubt) Is this possible at all?

Doubtful it's VTEC. The R18A's VTEC system is inverted compared to normal VTEC. When you are cruising (or your driving matches a set parameters in the ECU), it activates the low cam which closes one of the intake valves thereby providing higher mileage. So, even if you are at a low RPM, you are not guaranteed to be on the low cam and conversely, even if you are at a rather high RPM, you are not guaranteed to be on the wild cams.

It's a bit screwy, yes. Honda has started calling all it's VTEC systems as i-VTEC. There is the economy VTEC in the R series, there is the completely different economy VTEC in the K series found in the Accord and the CR-V (only intake camshaft benefits from the system) and there is the performance VTEC+VTC system in the K series engines that come in the sports oriented cars like the TSX, RSX-S and the Civic Si/Type-R.

Originally Posted by mkc15

> Low-beam is too low. Sometimes it gets tough to see a bump ahead and slow down.

I change the headlight levelling knob to 0 to get the max height out of the low beams. But the lamps are not very bright to begin with.

[mkc15]

Originally Posted by vishalrao

Question about the mirror: can we close/retract the mirror physically from outside without using the buttons or will it break? (dont try it at home tho!)

Yes, you can manually fold the mirrors, but it gives a harsh click at the end, as if its spring-loaded. I have decided not to do it manually at all.

Originally Posted by vishalrao

Also, where can i get this "service manual" like it seems to have juicy information about cars as i've seen mentioned on other threads...

I think, all that juicy info is in owner's manual. There is a section on maintenance/service.

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

It's a bit screwy, yes. Honda has started calling all it's VTEC systems as i-VTEC. There is the economy VTEC in the R series, there is the completely different economy VTEC in the K series found in the Accord and the CR-V (only intake camshaft benefits from the system) and there is the performance VTEC+VTC system in the K series engines that come in the sports oriented cars like the TSX, RSX-S and the Civic Si/Type-R.

I believe, Honda puts their latest tech in their latest generation (across models) as applicable. (I think R18A came out later than K20A for Civic. No?) However, playing with cam-sets based on multiple parameters and not on the rpm alone(ofcourse there may already be more) is a good thing, IMO. I wont be surprised if Honda implements this trick on K series as well in future.

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

I change the headlight levelling knob to 0 to get the max height out of the low beams. But the lamps are not very bright to begin with.

Yes, its a mere 51w lamp and the geometry of the low-beam reflector does not allow it to spread much. Even at 0, its too low.

[mkc15]

Odo reads 1078 and first service is done (at Whitefield Honda). Overall, the dealer experience has been quite decent. The service adviser asked me if I can wait for a couple of hours and he will get the car ready, as there is nothing much to be done for 1st service. I liked his honesty. He also explained that its completely free and they top-up all fluids except windscreen washer.

Said he will call me by 12pm once the car is ready, but he didn't (I never expected too!). When I called him, he said the car is ready. Well, I went there and it indeed was. He gave me another wash as it had rained and the bill came to Rs.168 (40 for Rapid and 125 for nitrogen on 5 tires with 3 months warranty).

Problems reported during first service:
> A feeble rattling noise from LHS door or dash
> Top left corner of rear seat backrest had a small gap into the boot
> Driver side door beading near the quarter glass had come off slightly

To my surprise the last 2 were totally fixed. I was not expecting them to fix the rattling anyways and they proved me right! Now I need to carefully check it myself and go to them or fix it myself.


I had a chat with a sales person there and she said they have sold only 15 Civics in Oct and the reason being shortage of stocks. Honda seems to be busy producing City's. I guess, Civic numbers will be low this month. Let see.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by mkc15

I believe, Honda puts their latest tech in their latest generation (across models) as applicable. (I think R18A came out later than K20A for Civic. No?) However, playing with cam-sets based on multiple parameters and not on the rpm alone(ofcourse there may already be more) is a good thing, IMO. I wont be surprised if Honda implements this trick on K series as well in future.

The R18A incorporates quite a bit of performance tech that is tuned towards economy. For example, piston oil squirters that let the engine run high compression ratios while running low octane fuel. This was first seen in the TSX 2.4L K24A2 motor. It later trickled down to the K20A in the Euro Accord Type-R. That motor then got insanely optimized to become the K20A which powers the current Type-R, generating 220BHP from 2L of displacement.

The R18A was designed from the ground up for economy. None of the K series motors have the economy VTEC system like the R series. Most new K2x performance heads (K20Z3/Z4 f.ex.) incorporate a VTEC system that engages within a range of RPM (say 4500-5800RPM). So the engine is always on the low cam below 4500RPM and always on the wild cam above 5800RPM. The switchover happens inside this window depending on a variety of parameters.

Re: rattles. My A.S.S has always fixed the rattles I point them towards. There was a very annoying one from the steering column that I couldn't trace to where exactly. They fixed it promptly on the first service. There is also a faint rattle from the LHS front door pad and from the RHS seat belt top mounting point. But these are hard known to be hard fix and I haven't asked them to look into them.

[ashthedivx]

Originally Posted by mkc15

I had a chat with a sales person there and she said they have sold only 15 Civics in Oct and the reason being shortage of stocks. Honda seems to be busy producing City's. I guess, Civic numbers will be low this month. Let see.

Call it City effect or Altis effect.

Whatever it is Honda needs to provide more value per rupee rather than playing on brand value and superb engineering.