[Shanksta]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

What does that have to do with the Altis? The Innova does not have rear brake pads. Innova has drums at the rear and we are discussing Altis rear disc brake pads.

Vid this has nothing to do with the altis if you look at my post I had quoted drmohitg ,who also owns a innova, and was just sharing info with him. Sorry that I forgot to mention OT in my previous post.:-)

[amartya sinha]

My altis D-4D G variant has run 26K now, I had to change both the rear discs and pads at 23K kms., and the cost me a whooping 15K + taxes. Have mentioned the same in detail in Dr. Mohit's thread, have also written mails to Toyota corps citing my example, as well as, various other such examples of other users who are exactly facing the similar problem. And, as stated by Toyota , all of us cannot be bad drivers. I request all old and new users of altis who are facing this problem to at least register a mail with the company expressing their views. With a forum like T-Bhp with us, who knows, we just might be able to move a mountain collectively.

[abs182]

Originally Posted by amartya sinha

My altis D-4D G variant has run 26K now, I had to change both the rear discs and pads at 23K kms., and the cost me a whooping 15K + taxes. Have mentioned the same in detail in Dr. Mohit's thread, have also written mails to Toyota corps citing my example, as well as, various other such examples of other users who are exactly facing the similar problem. And, as stated by Toyota , all of us cannot be bad drivers. I request all old and new users of altis who are facing this problem to at least register a mail with the company expressing their views. With a forum like T-Bhp with us, who knows, we just might be able to move a mountain collectively.

Well I'm really amazed that the New Altis's break pad and brake disc performances are even worse than my 2005 Corolla. I remember I went crazy complaining about the breaks and disc when they first started happening with my car at around 40k. But at 23K it's simply unacceptable and unpalatable. I think a very strong representation needs to be made to Toyota because people who buy toyotas for their durability suddenly find themselves laden with such issues. I would write though that mine is approaching 92k and I'll service one more time in March before I sell the car mid year. But I'm pretty sure the A.S.S. will ask me to get my brakes revamped when I meet them!

But I am with new owners in putting up this issue with Toyota because it really challenges the hassle free ownership we attach to Toyotas in our minds.

[NGM]

I think by now Toyota knows that they have brake pad issue which needs replacement quickly compared to other vehicles with the data they have.As posted earlier mine was changed at 15K km and the size of front pad which was changed earlier is getting reduced very quickly .Now the front pad started competing with the backpad for replacement...poor me
The service engineers are considering it quite normal to change the brake pads.So i expect it to be changed soon which is not a happy thing to do.Other than the brake pad issue i dont have to spend much during service.But still i didnt expect this from a Toyota especially after hearing all those stories about hassle free ownership.
Can someone share the mail id to which we can raise our concern?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by abs182

Well I'm really amazed that the New Altis's break pad and brake disc performances are even worse than my 2005 Corolla.

Originally Posted by NGM

Other than the brake pad issue i dont have to spend much during service.But still i didnt expect this from a Toyota especially after hearing all those stories about hassle free ownership.
Can someone share the mail id to which we can raise our concern?

For brake pads to last around 30k is quite normal. The real problem here is the cost for brake pad replacement.

Etios's brake pads costs just 3,000 odd. ( And it has got the best in class brakes compared to Dzire, Manza, Verito and Sunny )
Corolla used to cost 7,000 odd
The Altis brake pads are priced too high @ 15,000

I'm not sure why there is such a huge difference in cost for the Altis brake pads ? Is it ceramic ? Maybe, there could be a more sensible alternative without lose in braking power.

[NGM]

Originally Posted by amalji

The Altis brake pads are priced too high @ 15,000

Yes i agree.I believe if we do a side by side comparison of major spare parts of Altis and old Corolla we can see such a big difference.But very few people notice this.I discussed the same with a service engineer and his claim was that they are positioning Altis a bit higher than the old corolla which i don't buy into.

[amartya sinha]

Originally Posted by amalji

For brake pads to last around 30k is quite normal.
==============
Maybe, there could be a more sensible alternative without lose in braking power.

Saar, in my case, both my break pads as well as break discs had to be changed, as per A.S.S, both have simultaneously worn out, now i hope one can understand why am I so peeved.

[NGM]

My god !!! brake pads and brake discs too...that will have a big impact on your pocket.I strongly believe it is a design issue and not a driver issue.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by amartya sinha

Saar, in my case, both my break pads as well as break discs had to be changed, as per A.S.S, both have simultaneously worn out, now i hope one can understand why am I so peeved.

That can happen only if the brake pads got worn out completely and metal to metal contact happened with the discs.

This is what, I normally do to prevent such occurrence.

After every service, Toyota notes the amount of brake pads remaining in their bill. For instance, on my Etios, they mentioned brake pad remaining as

7mm on 10,000 kms
4.5 mm on 20,000 kms

The total size of Etios brake pads are 10 mm. So, this meant that
30% gone by 10,000 and
55% gone by 20,000

Once, you use up around 50% of your brake pads, you need to be extra careful before next service.

So, what I did was I took the vehicle to service center on 26,000 kms again and asked them to check for current status of brake pads.

They told that I still have around 3 mm left, which means that
I've used only 70% of the brake pads after 26,000 kms. So, I would bet that the remaining 30% would last for the next 4,000 kms.

The total cost for brake pad status checking was Rs. 98/- ( @ 50% discount since, I took the SMILES package during my last service )

I would change my brake pad for sure on 30,000 kms service because I want my vehicle to be ready for a long drive always.

Another way of doing it is to wait for the sound from the brakes. When brake pad gets into 1mm remaining, there is an indicator which rubs the brake disks and create a sound. This is an indication that you should take your vehicle to the nearest Toyota service.

The rule Toyota follows during regular service is to replace brake pads as soon as it becomes 2.5mm.

So, you might want to

--> get into a conversation with your SA and find out the total thickness of brake pads used on Altis.
--> You might also want to check for the brake pad thickness every time you do a service and based on that input, you should plan an additional trip to service center between services ( if the brake pad wear during the last service was more than 50% )

These kind of practices will prevent you from having to replace the discs.

[amartya sinha]

+1 to the way amal has mentioned the procedure followed by Toyota A.S.S for checking of break pads. When I went for the 20K service, I was informed that my pads have 3mm left in them and I should get them replaced with in another 1500 - 2000 Kms. Sadly, I required the car due to personal commitment, and could not take the car for brake pad replacement within 2000 Kms., I drove an extra 1000 Kms. and then went for replacement. But, by then, as informed by A.S.S, the discs were not even worth using after skimmimg. I could have overruled the SA and asked him to skim my discs and use fresh pads, would have saved a lot of money, but the issue being brakes, and this being a family sedan, did not seem like worth taking the risk.

[Murugan]

Had a couple of calls from 'Toyota' to discuss the brake pad issue. I was informed that a company representative will meet me for a discussion on this topic. I am waiting...

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Murugan

Had a couple of calls from 'Toyota' to discuss the brake pad issue. I was informed that a company representative will meet me for a discussion on this topic. I am waiting...

Lets say we are all waiting to hear on this. Meanwhile I have 1500 kms more to go before my 20k kms service. Mentally preparing myself to hear that the brake pads need a change.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by amalji

I'm not sure why there is such a huge difference in cost for the Altis brake pads ? Is it ceramic ? Maybe, there could be a more sensible alternative without lose in braking power.

Here's what I feel about the brake issue.

The Altis' brakes have had problems since the car was released in 2008. My car's brakes (Oct 2008 model) used to squeak and screech when the brakes were applied. The entire brake system including ABS and pads is/was made by Bosch. Not sure if the system in newer cars (post 2010) is Bosch/Nissin

TKM replaced the front brake pads only under warranty and the continued in-warranty replacement with other cars too. What I have noticed is after about a week of use the rear brakes shed a lot of black brake dust and the front brakes do not. That makes me feel the rear pads are wearing out faster. I could be wrong as this is just a hunch.

As for why the Altis' brake pads are costlier I believe it is because the brake system is far more effective and confidence inspiring than on the older 9G Corolla (which I sold). If you look at the 9G Corolla and Altis brake discs you will see that the latter has larger discs at both front and rear, with different pads, calipers - hence the better braking.

This upgrade may have been done since they retuned the old 1ZZ-FE engine from 123 PS in the 9G Corolla to 132PS in the Altis. The new 2ZR-FE engine develops 140 PS. All other things being equal, wear and tear should be greater in cars with more powerful engines and more so with vehicles with auto trannies.

My car hasn't run much years as I travel frequently and use the company's bus and/or public transport to commute to work. So no brake pad replacements for me yet. The car went for its annual service in Nov '12 and the brake pads were in very good condition according to the SA.

Since brakes are critical to safety of the car and its passengers i.e. me and my family - if it costs me 15K to replace the pads so be it. There can be no compromise here.

[Vid6639]

I think I mentioned this somewhere else as well. The reason why the brake pads wear out a bit faster in the Altis manual is the lack of engine braking. This has been tuned into the ECU for controlling emissions.

Altis owner's will notice that when they press the clutch to change up/down a gear the engine rpm's don't drop immediately. For a fraction of a second the rpm goes up by 200rpm and then starts falling down very slowly. This basically means no engine braking as the engine is still revving. I tried to get to the bottom of this and did a lot of research on the net. Finally realised that this is a known design in the Altis thanks to the settings of the drive by wire throttle. The issue is known as rev-hang which reduces engine braking considerably and can also result in jerky gear shifts sometimes.

On the other hand it makes it very easy to downshift since the rev hang issue also ends up matching the revs resulting in a smooth downshift.

Because of the rev-hang issue the brakes end up being used a lot more in the Altis as the car doesn't slow down enough by just releasing the gas in gear.

[abs182]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I think I mentioned this somewhere else as well. The reason why the brake pads wear out a bit faster in the Altis manual is the lack of engine braking. This has been tuned into the ECU for controlling emissions.

Altis owner's will notice that when they press the clutch to change up/down a gear the engine rpm's don't drop immediately. For a fraction of a second the rpm goes up by 200rpm and then starts falling down very slowly. This basically means no engine braking as the engine is still revving. I tried to get to the bottom of this and did a lot of research on the net. Finally realised that this is a known design in the Altis thanks to the settings of the drive by wire throttle. The issue is known as rev-hang which reduces engine braking considerably and can also result in jerky gear shifts sometimes.

On the other hand it makes it very easy to downshift since the rev hang issue also ends up matching the revs resulting in a smooth downshift.

Because of the rev-hang issue the brakes end up being used a lot more in the Altis as the car doesn't slow down enough by just releasing the gas in gear.

Being a corolla owner since last 8 yrs I haven't ever noticed this. I'll surely see this now. Because if its true and not that I doubt it it'll go a long way in explaining these curious instances of diminishing brake pads in the corolla. But now the question arises that does the lack of engine braking due to some design causes them to fade at 20k to 35k instead of lasting them till around 50k. But thanks for sharing the information. It's very intriguing and enlightening. Goes on to prove that if you get to the bottom of anything there's always a very simple answer to anything relating to engineering. Thanks once again for the knowledge share.