[vina]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

As per my talks with Service Manager he is OK with filling the Oil that we bring as long as the Oil meets or betters the requirements.

But Vina, ford's OEM oil is good enough for the car. So if I were you I won't bother unless I have some special requirements like going on continuous drive for 7 days or something. I am suggesting this after doing some considerable research on whether or not I should upgrade to a better Oil.

Well I think I wasn't clear in my question. The post I was replying to lists engine oils - all are Ford specs. It is just a question of which ford oil to use. The 913-B is the default (according to amit1234singla) and 934-A is the one Ford recommends worldwide for DPF cars.

Also keep in mind that DPF is a new thing on Indian diesels, and ash accumulation takes time. You can not go by your or other Indian drivers' experience on this one - you simply don't have enough experience yet because Euro-4 compliant diesels from Ford are so new in India (previously they were not, and so didn't have DPF) and the DPF will go kaput in a few years, not even months.

Given the likely cost and trouble of replacing a DPF, and the price I'll be paying in reduced FE in the months/years leading to DPF replacement - I would rather use a low-ash oil to begin with even if it is marginally more expensive.

The question is whether it is available in the first place.

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by amit1234singla

Hi Mustang, it was me asking this question. Now since you confirmed that TDCi is DPF equipped, I have further question on the Ford approved engine oil for TDCi engine. The sticker on the car says oils with WSS-M2C913-B need to be used. Some of the service centres (e.g. Bhagat Ford Chandigarh) are using Shell Helix HX7 AF 5W30 which meets the WSS-M2C913-B standard. However, this oil is for Fords cars w/o DPF (see oil tech spec attached as word file). Also, I thought the diesel cars equipped with DPF require oils which have ACEA C1 or C2 or C3 rating. These are new low saps oils (ash <0.8%) to protect DPF. My dad's Figo D is going for first service in next week or so, so the detail oriented in me wanted to check on this first . Sorry for technical details on this thread and many thanks in advance for you and other members to share any info on this if you have. BTW, below are Ford engine oil approvals for pessanger cars. So for Ford cars with DPF, should the oil specification be WSS-M2C934-A?

WSS-M2C913-A - Engine oil, Initial and service fill, SAE 5W-30. This specification meets the ILSAC GF-2 and ACEA A1-98 and B1-98 and additional Ford requirements.

WSS-M2C913-B - The Ford M2C913-B specification is released in Europe for initial fill engine oils used for lubrication of spark ignition engines using gasoline and for compression ignition engines using diesel fuels. The specification is also used to define engine oils for servicing Ford engines where applicable. The oil shall meet all the requirements of the ILSAC GF-2 and GF-3 specification, the ACEA A1-98 and B1-98 specification and additional Ford requirements.

WSS-M2C913-C - Fully backwards compatible and is strongly recommended for all applications that currently require the specification Ford M2C913-B. The new engine oil provides various benefits to the customer such as improved fuel economy benefits and high robustness to biodiesel fuels.

WSS-M2C917-A - Viscosity SAE 5W40 engine oil for pump injector diesel engines.

WSS-M2C934-A - Extended drain engine oil for vehicles equipped with diesel particulate filter (DPF).

Source of this info is thread below and google. If you feel more comfortable, we can discuss on this thread as well.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2342811

Hi there

Omg I do not know so much about oils. I just check for the grade and get it filled. My fusion tdci recently got mobil super 5w30 filled.

But I know one thing. You need not worry on which oil the service center will be filling as whatever oil that is used by the service centers is actually selected from a briefing from ford and the same check is made by a sr. Ford official and then the contract b/w the service center and the oil company is signed. Also at the time of renewal/change of contract, the same procedure is again carried out.

So there is nothing much to think about. Just give your dad's car for service and the right oil will only be filled.

[anilisanil]

UPDATE: I just spoke to the RSM on the stalling issue. It seems Ford has acknowledged the problem and are working to replicate it on their test tracks. If the RSM is to be believed there should be some solution soon and he would inform me as soon as one evolves.

[amit1234singla]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

UPDATE: I just spoke to the RSM on the stalling issue. It seems Ford has acknowledged the problem and are working to replicate it on their test tracks. If the RSM is to be believed there should be some solution soon and he would inform me as soon as one evolves.

Thanks Anil. I thought Mustang earlier mentioned that the issue has already been rectified on the newer cars (so it had to be detected already). If Ford is trying to replicate, then it might not be fixed in the current batch of cars. I bought my dad's car on 3rd July, it's a June 2011 make and I assumed this problem won't be in there. Well, to my knowledge, it hasn't happened as yet, or if it happened, my dad might have thought of it as his mistake and not mentioned to me about it.

BTW, his car completed 2k km's already and is going great. First service will be done in next week or so. FE is around 19 with 100% AC, but that's due to open and much less crowded roads in Punjab.

EDIT - just saw that you posted on the stalling issue thread as well. I should have replied there as it's more relevant there.

[vina]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

...

PS - I can't seem to multiquote on my phone and someone asked me if the TDCI has a DPF or not, the answer is yes it does.

...

Hi Mustang are you sure about the above - I have read on some places on the internet that TDCi engine couldn't pass Euro-4 without a DPF, so now all TDCi engines come with a DPF (and no 16V option - that doesn't pass even with DPF) BUT look at this:

2011 Ford Fiesta - Small car fuel efficient technology - Ford UK

Apparently TDCi 1.6 clearly mentions a DPF, while 1.4 doesn't. Given that Figo has a 1.4 engine does it mean it wouldn't have a DPF?

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by vina

Hi Mustang are you sure about the above - I have read on some places on the internet that TDCi engine couldn't pass Euro-4 without a DPF, so now all TDCi engines come with a DPF (and no 16V option - that doesn't pass even with DPF) BUT look at this:

2011 Ford Fiesta - Small car fuel efficient technology - Ford UK

Apparently TDCi 1.6 clearly mentions a DPF, while 1.4 doesn't. Given that Figo has a 1.4 engine does it mean it wouldn't have a DPF?

It has a DPF, like you mentioned in the early part of your post.

[vina]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

It has a DPF, like you mentioned in the early part of your post.

Bu then how come there is no mention of it on the Ford UK site?

Also apparently DPF is standard kit on all engines except 1.4L over there (read some old news reports on the internet)

I think your Fusion probably has it owing to the 1.6L engine.

EDIT: I did read about it on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine#DLD-414

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by vina

Bu then how come there is no mention of it on the Ford UK site?

Also apparently DPF is standard kit on all engines except 1.4L over there (read some old news reports on the internet)

I think your Fusion probably has it owing to the 1.6L engine.

EDIT: I did read about it on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine#DLD-414

Some things are always missed out on websites. My fusion does not have it as its a euro 3, 1.4 tdci. 1.6 tdci has never been released in India.

[r_devakumar]

I have one question about the Figo music system. The shuffle option for the USB applies to all the music files in the USB. Is there any way to shuffle within the sub-folder in the USB?

[amit1234singla]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

Hi there

Omg I do not know so much about oils. I just check for the grade and get it filled. My fusion tdci recently got mobil super 5w30 filled.

But I know one thing. You need not worry on which oil the service center will be filling as whatever oil that is used by the service centers is actually selected from a briefing from ford and the same check is made by a sr. Ford official and then the contract b/w the service center and the oil company is signed. Also at the time of renewal/change of contract, the same procedure is again carried out.

So there is nothing much to think about. Just give your dad's car for service and the right oil will only be filled.

okay, thanks Mustang for assuring words. Can you please help by getting an answer to this question from technical dept in Ford (I know I am asking a lot, hope you won't mind) .

"Did Ford upgrade their oil recommendation after introduction of DPF in BS-4 TDCi engines from what it was in non DPF BS-3 one's".

If not, I see an issue (and I hope I am wrong).

Vina - I read your post in another thread about location of DPF. Not sure about Figo or fiesta (and can't check as the car is not with me), it should mostly be situated after exhaust manifold. If not there, then near to the cat con. Manifold area is mostly used to place DPF as it saves costs, (I think) there is a need to have additional heather to burn particulates if placed near cat con and that is expensive.

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

Some things are always missed out on websites. My fusion does not have it as its a euro 3, 1.4 tdci. 1.6 tdci has never been released in India.

Mustang, what is the service requirement for DPF? I reckon if it exists there should be some maintenance schedule for the same, could you let us know if there is one?

[amit1234singla]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

Mustang, what is the service requirement for DPF? I reckon if it exists there should be some maintenance schedule for the same, could you let us know if there is one?

If I may answer this . There is no active service requirement of DPF if the car is driven regularly at good speeds (say for an hour or so on highway). It increases temp inside DPF to be able to burn off the particulates. The problem is only when the car is continuously driven at low speeds (say with in the city for weeks) in which case additional filter regeneration have to be carried out by actively raising the exhaust temperature to around 600 °C every 1,000 to 1,200 kilometres. At this temperature, the particulate matter trapped in the filter burns off.

I picked up the above detail from link below which is not for Ford cars but the logic should apply here as well. I am still not sure what they mean by active regeneration (does it have to be done manually). May be, (repeating may be) this is why Figo manual advises to run the car at 3k+rpm once a week.

Technical Glossary < Innovations < Welcome to Volkswagen India

EDIT - I realize that last page or so has been technical enough for a test drive thread. The only reason I see we are continuing this discussion here is to get valueable inputs from all members on Figo (especially mustang). If members object, please let me know and I'll stop posting technical details here. Cheers!

[vina]

Originally Posted by amit1234singla

If I may answer this . There is no active service requirement of DPF if the car is driven regularly at good speeds (say for an hour or so on highway). It increases temp inside DPF to be able to burn off the particulates. The problem is only when the car is continuously driven at low speeds (say with in the city for weeks) in which case additional filter regeneration have to be carried out by actively raising the exhaust temperature to around 600 °C every 1,000 to 1,200 kilometres. At this temperature, the particulate matter trapped in the filter burns off.
...

I think the point anil is making is that even with regeneration the DPF is guaranteed to go blocked over time. Also after 50k km it should be checked regularly. And this is in countries that have ULSD available - with our diesel (even the standard unadulterated variety) it will last a lot less.

Now Figo manual has a very detailed service plan (valve clearance @ 1.6L km) - but doesn't even mention DPF anywhere at all - so the question is what is going on?

[amit1234singla]

Originally Posted by vina

I think the point anil is making is that even with regeneration the DPF is guaranteed to go blocked over time. Also after 50k km it should be checked regularly. And this is in countries that have ULSD available - with our diesel (even the standard unadulterated variety) it will last a lot less.

Now Figo manual has a very detailed service plan (valve clearance @ 1.6L km) - but doesn't even mention DPF anywhere at all - so the question is what is going on?

I see an item called heater-fuel to be replaced every 60k km or 6 years. Any idea what that is?

On a side note, does any member know if there is any DPF service requirement for Skoda/ GM/ VW cars. I know Cruze, Captiva, Laura, Jetta, Passat, Vento(?) are DPF equipped so is there anything on DPF service in those cars.

The irony is that all this is so new to India (atleast for cars <12L) and there is not much of ownership experience available. It would take time for something like DPF to get choked and replacement cost is going to be very high. Even if in warranty, it may not be covered due to bad quality of fuel.

Even I was surprised that there is no mention of DPF in Figo manual. That's why I asked you this in DPF thread and then asked mustang here. It may not be the case but I have seen manuals being copied from earlier variants, so in this case Figo manual's engine section might be a copy from BS-3 Fiesta/ Ikon. At least my manza manual has content which is applicable to earlier Tata cars and not manza.

[Mustang.101]

The DPF is totally maintainance free in the figo. That's why there is no mention of it in the manual.