[Lukeskywalker]

Did anyone else had this "rusting" problem and is it so normal ?

The shield in my car is hanging by two bolts for over a week now, as you said, the part is "ordered" and yet to be delivered, this time am planning to get an antirust treatment done before fitment.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

The shield in my car is hanging by two bolts for over a week now, as you said, the part is "ordered" and yet to be delivered, this time am planning to get an antirust treatment done before fitment.

Exactly, that's [Antirust] the same is suggested and planning to take it too
I believe, you are trying your luck with Prerena and me with Concorde

[Lukeskywalker]

I believe, you are trying your luck with Prerena and me with Concorde

I am getting the anti rust done outside, have requested them to give me the shields once they get them and will get if fixed after I get the treatment done.

[kaviprem]

All right, here comes my big expense !

Today, I gave my beast for a regular checkup [not the routine service though] along with the need to replace "Shield" under the vehicle.
The guy took a road test and said RPM is raising abnormally and there might be a problem with clutch.

In next 3 hours, I received a call saying Clutch is almost gone/burnt and need to replace the assembly. So, what does it cost ? 14K + labour.

I am running @ 36K on my ODO and had a couple of hill trips [Ooty, Yelagiri] and beach drive [which was pathetic though] where I had to pull hard the vehicle with the clutch closed.

Now, do I have any option other than changing the clutch assembly on the whole ? Is it too bad [less] a reading on my ODO to change the clutch assembly for Safari ?

Prem.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

All right, here comes my big expense !

Today, I gave my beast for a regular checkup [not the routine service though] along with the need to replace "Shield" under the vehicle.
The guy took a road test and said RPM is raising abnormally and there might be a problem with clutch.

In next 3 hours, I received a call saying Clutch is almost gone/burnt and need to replace the assembly. So, what does it cost ? 14K + labour.

I am running @ 36K on my ODO and had a couple of hill trips [Ooty, Yelagiri] and beach drive [which was pathetic though] where I had to pull hard the vehicle with the clutch closed.

Now, do I have any option other than changing the clutch assembly on the whole ? Is it too bad [less] a reading on my ODO to change the clutch assembly for Safari ?

Prem.

Try this.

Originally Posted by avanishphatak

hi,
I came across with the Scorpio thread where there was a simple test to check the clutch plate life.

"Find a steep slope (the 45 degree types), engage first gear, turn AC on and then let the car climb up WITHOUT touching the accelerator. If it does without any stalling, you can presume that your CP is OK."

I did this test in the same slope/gradient which i mentioned earlier , my safari climbs without any problem!

I assume the clutch plate is fine as told by the Tata service engineer, and the service engineer at tata (KH motors brookefield/whitefield) assured me that since the job card is not closed even if the warranty closes they can still get the coverage for this issue, which is a good sign

anyone has encountered the problems which i have mentioned earlier, please suggest solutions

regards
avanish

and FYI

Originally Posted by trance_nut

The cylinders are touched only if there is a problem with them. The clutch set including the clutch plate, pressure plate, bearing etc + labour comes to around 11K for the 3L and there is a 500/- variation plus or minus for the 2.2L.
The cylinders together are around 2K.

Hope this helps.

36k is too low for a clutch change unless you had really messed it driving in the above said places.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

Now, do I have any option other than changing the clutch assembly on the whole ?

Why do you need to change the whole assembly?
Change the clutch and pressure plates, alongwith the release bearing IF the there is play. In case the ASC does not sell these parts separately, you can easily buy them from JC Road and get them changed at any Sumo mechanic of repute.

Further, clutches should last much longer and to draw an inference, Hariya's clutch is now 80k kms old and going pretty strong.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by jkdas

36k is too low for a clutch change unless you had really messed it driving in the above said places.

Yes, looks like I messed it up :(

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Why do you need to change the whole assembly?
Change the clutch and pressure plates, alongwith the release bearing IF the there is play. In case the ASC does not sell these parts separately, you can easily buy them from JC Road and get them changed at any Sumo mechanic of repute.

Further, clutches should last much longer and to draw an inference, Hariya's clutch is now 80k kms old and going pretty strong.

I guess, you covered the whole assembly - Clutch Plate, Pressure Plate, Release/Bearing, Tube - Total in 4 parts.

Hari - you mean "Luke" or other "HappyWheels" ? "HW" according to me, he is on great roads and kind of traffic free as compared to other Bangalore City parts I don't know about "Luke" though.

But, yes - SA too told me about 75 or 80K for the clutch change. So, am sure, its due to me. My bad :(

Prem.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

The guy took a road test and said RPM is raising abnormally and there might be a problem with clutch..

Have you felt these symptoms when you drive? If not, I'd strongly advise you to get a 2nd opinion from an independent garage. Do not blindly trust the SAs/technicians word that the clutch is gone. A couple of hill trips and beach drives are not enough to burn a clutch.

Also, apart from the Clutch Plate, Pressure Plate, Release/Bearing, Tube, I guess the clutch assembly also includes the slave and master cylinders? Question him if their replacement is really required too.

Cheers,
Vikram

[ACM]

Yes a clutch can burn out any time post 25000 Kms and it be referred to as normal and caused by driving style. But a safari clutch should last around 50,000-70,000 kms usually.
A specific part failure like say the bearing can speed up the failure but you would have noticed a bearing failure through irritating vibrations on the clutch pedal when pressed.

I guess you should go ahead and get the clutch changed this time round even if will last a few 1000 Ms more to avoid a revisit and inconvenient breakdown.

Drop in fuel efficiency in recent times by about 10% would indicate clutch being worn out.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

Have you felt these symptoms when you drive? If not, I'd strongly advise you to get a 2nd opinion from an independent garage. Do not blindly trust the SAs/technicians word that the clutch is gone. A couple of hill trips and beach drives are not enough to burn a clutch.

Also, apart from the Clutch Plate, Pressure Plate, Release/Bearing, Tube, I guess the clutch assembly also includes the slave and master cylinders? Question him if their replacement is really required too.

Cheers,
Vikram

Good question on "observation". Yes, I have seen/felt a similar trend a few times, but, thought its "As designed"

2nd opinion and trust on that SA/technician - I differ and of course, its a personal opinion too. I have a great trust with that team who looks after my Safari in the past 3 years without any trouble. So, I am good with their advice. But, hey, no offence, I understand your point.
Only plates [pressure and clutch] and release/bearing are replaced, NOT the cylinders.

Originally Posted by ACM

Yes a clutch can burn out any time post 25000 Kms and it be referred to as normal and caused by driving style. But a safari clutch should last around 50,000-70,000 kms usually.
A specific part failure like say the bearing can speed up the failure but you would have noticed a bearing failure through irritating vibrations on the clutch pedal when pressed.

I guess you should go ahead and get the clutch changed this time round even if will last a few 1000 Ms more to avoid a revisit and inconvenient breakdown.

Drop in fuel efficiency in recent times by about 10% would indicate clutch being worn out.

yes, I am going ahead with the change and exactly for the reasons you mentioned. But, I didn't see any drop-in FE. It was always 9.5 KMPL almost for all 3 years !

Thanks anyway guys, This is something good about TBHP. When someone shares a problem or observation, all the interested folks come in to help/bail out.

Appreciate it and Long Live TBHP

Prem.

[Lukeskywalker]

36k is too low for a clutch change unless you had really messed it driving in the above said places.

Yes a clutch can burn out any time post 25000 Kms and it be referred to as normal and caused by driving style. But a safari clutch should last around 50,000-70,000 kms usually.

But, yes - SA too told me about 75 or 80K for the clutch change. So, am sure, its due to me. My bad :(

In the new Safaris (2009 till current), the clutch starts getting hard to depress just after 20k kms, in my case the first set was changed under warranty when the Safari was around 22k kms, if it exceeds 25k kms, usually warranty is denied as they claim wear and tear has resulted in premature failure.
My second clutch lasted me till the vehicle had run 66k kms, so this time warranty was denied as it had crossed 25k kms of it's life and I had to pay for the replacement. I seriously doubt if it is your driving style, the clutch in a Safari simply does not last.
If I assume my driving style is bad for having replaced the clutch twice on my Safari in 69k kms, then how come I have not replaced clutch in any of my other cars which I have driven much more than 70k kms, my Optra clutch is still good inspite of having clocked 82k kms in bumper to bumper traffic.
Prem, if you had complained earlier (when odo was some 22 to 25k) then probably you could have got it replaced under warranty.
In my case too, I had no clue till Pavan Kadam and Gowda79 checked my clutch during a meet and told me that it was in bad shape, the thing is, we drive the vehicle everyday and the clutch hardness is gradual so we don't notice anything amiss.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by ACM

Yes a clutch can burn out any time post 25000 Kms and it be referred to as normal and caused by driving style. But a safari clutch should last around 50,000-70,000 kms usually.
A specific part failure like say the bearing can speed up the failure but you would have noticed a bearing failure through irritating vibrations on the clutch pedal when pressed.

I guess you should go ahead and get the clutch changed this time round even if will last a few 1000 Ms more to avoid a revisit and inconvenient breakdown.

Drop in fuel efficiency in recent times by about 10% would indicate clutch being worn out.

Clutch should last around 150000kms with normal usage. 40-50000kms is what companies would like you to believe so that they can wriggle out of warranty replacement.
If you actually inspect clutch plates and pressure plates of clutches replaced around 40K-50K you will find that they still have life left.
People who abuse clutches get them changed within 25K

[ameaa]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

All right, here comes my big expense !

I am running @ 36K on my ODO and had a couple of hill trips [Ooty, Yelagiri] and beach drive [which was pathetic though] where I had to pull hard the vehicle with the clutch closed.

Mine is an Oct 10 BS4 safari and has crossed 75K as on date. I too had trips to Ooty, Yelagiri and many trips to my home town which is in one of Kerala's hilly regions. I used to get strong clutch burning smell on initial days while hill climbing but died off after some time. I am still on original clutch and nothing seemed unusual till now. Did the recent service in concorde and they haven't made any observation. In my safari, at 110 km/hr the rpm is exactly at 2500 on 5th gear on a level road surface. If required you may check at similar speeds.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

In the new Safaris (2009 till current), the clutch starts getting hard to depress just after 20k kms, in my case the first set was changed under warranty when the Safari was around 22k kms, if it exceeds 25k kms, usually warranty is denied as they claim wear and tear has resulted in premature failure.
My second clutch lasted me till the vehicle had run 66k kms, so this time warranty was denied as it had crossed 25k kms of it's life and I had to pay for the replacement. I seriously doubt if it is your driving style, the clutch in a Safari simply does not last.
If I assume my driving style is bad for having replaced the clutch twice on my Safari in 69k kms, then how come I have not replaced clutch in any of my other cars which I have driven much more than 70k kms, my Optra clutch is still good inspite of having clocked 82k kms in bumper to bumper traffic.
Prem, if you had complained earlier (when odo was some 22 to 25k) then probably you could have got it replaced under warranty.
In my case too, I had no clue till Pavan Kadam and Gowda79 checked my clutch during a meet and told me that it was in bad shape, the thing is, we drive the vehicle everyday and the clutch hardness is gradual so we don't notice anything amiss.

One good thing that I understand is that my driving style is not that bad since its a kind of nature of Safari's clutch
Let me try that <25K argument. I remember telling them "clutch being hard" in my 2 yr service [but ODO was <30K for sure]. But, I was told by the mechanic who took the road test that it was normal then. But, he didn't look for this particular test that this SA did y'day. I kind of liked the test this SA did which most likely would solve my other problem of climbing up any ugly ramp, like the one I had faced in Doddabetta peak few months ago.

Like the other above update mentioned about "burnt" smell, I too had that a couple of times in my Ooty trip, But, I thought, it might have come from tire !

Let me try my luck anyway.

Prem.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Clutch should last around 150000kms with normal usage. 40-50000kms is what companies would like you to believe so that they can wriggle out of warranty replacement.
If you actually inspect clutch plates and pressure plates of clutches replaced around 40K-50K you will find that they still have life left.
People who abuse clutches get them changed within 25K

Yep but then I kind off semi adbused mine in the TCIC Safari and had to get them replaced each time around the 60-70k mark. (thrice over 175,000 kms) I do guess the 90bhp engine did cause me to slip the clutch quite a few times on hillstation climbs and besides there were are a couple of traffic signal stops on steep inclines on route to office that caused had me hold on in half clutch quite a bit.

That said it would be hard for any one to prove that he/she did not abuse the clutch causing to to be replaced earlier even if it was a manufacturing defect.

Think that the 140 Bhp engines on the Aria and Strome should help reduce incidence of burning up the clutch on hill climbs.

Did get the Aria Gearbox, DMF, Clutch and pressure plates replaced under warranty around 50k kms. They would not have covered the Clutch and pressure plates but for me pointing to accelerated rate of failure due to DMF and Gearbox Failure. - All starting with a bearing in the Gearbox and then I guess the DMF developing vibrations due to a faulty design that they have now sorted out. The Clutch even at around the 50K kms mark could have gone on for a bit more but with the rest of the stuff being replaced it seemed quite stupid to just let that one element in the chain remain even with about 25% life remaining.

Sadly DMF being a relatively newer technology does seem to last even lesser than the clutch not just in TATA but also Ford, Skoda, VW and Audi vehicles. And DMF replacement around 30-40K mark is quite common especially in VW group vehicles. DMF costs between 2-3 times the cost of the clutch which in the case of DMF vehicles is about half so the overall cost of ownership of the more refined vehicles with DMF does go up quite a bit.