[vasoo]

Thank God, I am yet to hear a rattle on my 9k old car. May be a problem with my ears also! Or it may be due to the Michelin Primacy LC tyres which are super smooth and silent. I did notice some noise a couple of times and have always managed to trace it down to some loose items such as coins, bottle caps, pen etc in any of the umpteen cubbyholes in the car.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by vasoo

Thank God, I am yet to hear a rattle on my 9k old car. May be a problem with my ears also! Or it may be due to the Michelin Primacy LC tyres which are super smooth and silent. I did notice some noise a couple of times and have always managed to trace it down to some loose items such as coins, bottle caps, pen etc in any of the umpteen cubbyholes in the car.

It could be a function of the roads. They got beat up pretty badly in Hyderabad because of the monsoons and are rough enough to unsettle all but the best-built stuff. On top of that the routes I drive on regularly are "infested" with heavy bus/truck traffic (NH9) and/or are areas under development (frequent digging up of roads). That can take its toll.

Or it could just be that shuvc's and my cars were manufactured on a Monday/Friday . For instance, BQ was tagged with my name on 19th July (Monday; my order with the dealership was recorded on 17th July, Saturday).

FWIW the rear parcel tray rattle started occurring in the 1st month itself, within the 1k km mark. The other rattles cropped up after the 1st FS, so I wouldn't be surprised if some things "came loose" under the service centre's "care" .

Regards,
spadix

[vcx]

Spadix,

Good to see your BQ , I am contemplating to take a plunge as well into 15lacs car segement until seen Vento.

I initally wanted to upgrade to around 10-12 lacs cars from my Ikon abt 5 yrs now( its a black panther petrol, can relate the maintainence issues) so went about looking at ANHC , Linea.

ANHC good engine, space but tacky interiors and body feels like a wafer thin and doesn;t feel grounded and cost coming to ard 10.8 lacs for VMT and them Linea was not impressed by MJD( petrol for som reason was not event looked at ).

While in btw I felt to take a look at next segment(Altis, Cruze, Jetta, Laura and Civic).

Altis: Too bland looks , great engine. Diesel altis is a loot (charge 15 lacs for 1.4 engines haaaaaa)

Cruze: GM brand not confident and heard of bad qlty of interiors and space

Jetta: Pertol at 15 lacs only one variant not getting all the bells and whistles(unlike comfortline/highline) and is out going model. 2011 model just ard the corner in 2H 2011.

Laura: heard bad n the service and support, people with deep hole in pockets

Civic: Just love the way car appeals and great interiors, worried about GC driving mostly in city, understand its good on highways from you. Also heard it strggules with fully loaded capacity when driving on hill like ?(My friend had take a TD with Pride and took them around KBR road and J hills ups, wher he felt this issues. -You may wnat to add your observations.

Wht I felt sad is if one pasy 15lacs and still had to compromise on vibrations in cars is too bad.

After all this, I read soem excellent reviews on Vento and that too Diesel is killer for the price of ANHC VMT you get Vento Diesel Highline.

I felt Vento is very good bult car , but my wife feels its too plane by design and appeal and that factor of upgrade from my Ikon is felt low...

Currently I drive mainly to off abt 25-30km s per day and intend to take my next car for long drives as you, this was reason to think of vento diesel...

But heart is struck on civic's appeal, road presence and a driver car feel...

I have posted similar opinions to seek thoughts to help my decision...


Pride offering OTR for Civic VMT as 15.08 lacs

Not hurrying my decision, can wait if its worth that...
Look fowd to hearing from you!

[spadix]

Originally Posted by vcx

Good to see your BQ , I am contemplating to take a plunge as well into 15lacs car segement until seen Vento.

Not hurrying my decision, can wait if its worth that...
Look fowd to hearing from you!

Thanks for your compliments, vcx! Also your empathy regarding maintaining a black beauty .

Here's my take on your options -

I somehow haven't been too pleased with the ANHC. It's a brilliant all-rounder if you ask me but somehow never appealed to me at least. The same is the case with the Corolla Altis.

I didn't consider the Jetta for more than a few moments. It's costlier and again, didn't appeal as much as the Civic did to me at least.

The Laura was brilliant but I knew that maintenance would be more expensive as the car ages. Build quality is probably better but should something go wrong it's bound to be more expensive. This is corroborated even by the salesperson (who defends by saying that the service intervals are much longer compared to the Civic's). Regarding poor A.S.S. I've heard both good and bad. Generally the feedback I've received from people who got their cars serviced at Mahavir (Somajiguda) is that it's as good or as bad as the others. So you won't get a stellar job done, but it's not shabby either. This was what two friends of mine (Skoda RS and Octavia TDi) have said. The TDi in particular has aged really well. I don't think you should discount the Laura if you're based out of Hyderabad. Talk to Ravveendrra of TBHP Hyd. He has good things to say about Skoda A.S.S. From what they all said, I think Pride Honda Service and Skoda A.S.S. (in Hyderabad at least) are similar.

Now we come to the Cruze. I would've bought the Cruze, if not for the fact that I actually waited for 4 years to buy the Civic, the Cruze's interiors are cramped and that its controls are much harder. My wife has driven 25% of the 8650 kms BQ has done, and it would've been very difficult for her with the Cruze. In the end analysis the Civic won out only because I wanted it to. The Cruze is a really good car. Talk to Avi, again from TBHP Hyd. He has a Cruze.

I don't know much about the Vento and Linea, except that I did consider those cars too. However, information on the launch dates, specs and prices (Vento, Linea T-Jet) wasn't very clear and I wasn't really prepared to wait as they weren't the 1st choice anyway. My wife really likes the Linea. We stretched ourselves for BQ. If the T-Jet were already available around the time we booked BQ, who knows what might have been?

Something tells me the Linea T-Jet might appeal a lot to you.

Finally we come to the Civic. You have raised three concerns - vibrations, GC and lack of low-end torque.

Vibrations really irritate me no end, especially on a 15-lac car. But I have bigger issues with the Civic (it loses out on features to other cars in its segment, and boot space is vastly inferior). It could be a deal-killer and I'll totally empathize with you if it is. However, a very few of us seem to be facing excessive issues with vibes. Most Civic owners have reported no vibrations even after the 60k/80k kms mark. So it depends on the piece you get, the roads you drive on and the competence of the A.S.S. The 1st is random, and the 2nd and 3rd are definitely negative in Hyderabad.

GC - let me assure you that once you master the technique, the Civic will absolutely surprise you with its manners over anything but the biggest, baddest bumps out there. Yes, there will be scrapes in certain unavoidable situations but thankfully they won't hurt the car much and you'll realize that in most cases it's bad driving that causes it. Let this not be a negative factor.

Lack of low-end torque - Any turbo-diesel will exhibit this characteristic. The key is to be in the right RPM range always, whether it's the Civic or the Cruze or (presumably) the Vento. Again, let this not be a factor that goes against the Civic because other cars in your consideration set suffer from it too. I was going up the Tirumala ghat with 5 people in the car (incl. myself of course) and the boot *full* of luggage and the car never struggled. I drive regularly around Jubilee Hills - albeit not fully loaded - and it's never struggled. If I am not in the right gear at the right speed, though, the car (and any car for that matter) would struggle even on a level surface. It's as simple as that. The only place where the lack of LET affects you (badly) is starting from a standstill. You have to gun the engine a bit. Not ideal, but the alternative is a knocking/jerking engine/car. You'll get used to this is as well. As I said, it is a pain, but most of the other cars you're considering are no better. If you're used to a certain style of driving you may have to change that. Decide based on extensive TDs of all the cars you're considering.

My regular usage is exactly in the 25 - 30 km range. The Civic suits my purposes really well. However I drive mostly between Miyapur and Gachibowli which gives me good mileage and relatively empty roads. Not that the difference is huge, but the mileage drops by at least 1 km/lit if I have to constantly negotiate peak city-center stop-start traffic.

On the highway, the Civic will pamper you. You'll come off a 6 hr/500 km drive without showing even the slightest bit of tiredness. This is where the lack of some fancy features just stops bothering you .

If 15 lac is going to be a huge stretch, get a used Civic. Given that you like the car so much you'll probably enjoy it more than a Vento or a Linea T-Jet. If the priority is to buy new, though, do give both of them a serious look, even if you eventually end up buying the Civic.

Regards,
spadix

[vcx]

Good points Spadix, neat observations.

Looks wise Linea no doubt about the style factor, but Linea has cramped interiors though the car appears big enough and so are the inferior interiors.

TJet is pure drivers car but I want a car which ages well since I want to keep for long say atleast 5-7 years.

I can relate that its the luck the car you pick which could give you peace or some niggling issues( I had my share with Ikon, but luckily this was a good piece)

Could you share more about the features you wish Civic should have had and compared to which cars from the comptetion ?

Thanks for pointing to Ravveendra and Avi for checking on Laura and Cruze. Laura I fully agree with your thought and Cruze somehow already lost in the crowd.

The Pride guys says that GC is common issue with Civic's and 2010 model is much better than the previous models and car also has some metal sheet like( as told by Sales rep). Now come what I concurr its more of getting used to the car dynamics and know to handle it .

Agree on points about lack of low end torque .

My usage is just as yours and drive btw srinagar colony to hitech city , so some bumper to bumper traffic but not all along.

How has been the FE in city and long drives?

I am looking for a new car so keenly looking through all factors.

VW folks say the same points as you mentioned of Laura, that service intervals are at 15k on Vento , but hint at 4-5k per service and also a point abt pricey spares....

I do not want to regret for strech if I opt for Civic ( thats the only car appeals to be me in that segment), which I feel could happen if I pick up ANHC or Vento!

[spadix]

Originally Posted by vcx

Looks wise Linea no doubt about the style factor, but Linea has cramped interiors though the car appears big enough and so are the inferior interiors.

TJet is pure drivers car but I want a car which ages well since I want to keep for long say atleast 5-7 years.

Valid points. I think a Linea will last for 5-7 years easily. I want to keep the Civic around for 10-12 years!

Originally Posted by vcx

Could you share more about the features you wish Civic should have had and compared to which cars from the comptetion ?

I've covered these in some earlier posts but let me re-cap -

1. Remote (key-mounted) boot lid opener
2. Steering-mounted audio controls
3. Foldable rear seat (yes, the Civic's rear seat doesn't fold down -- so it's like insult to the injury of a small boot)
4. Addition to the above point - split foldable rear seats (I think the US Civic has split foldable rear seats; at least the manual makes mention of it)
5. Speed control on intermittent setting of windshield wipers - there's only one intermittent speed!
6. DVD media (incl. DVD+/-R/RW) support in OEM head unit
7. Backward-compatibility with older iPod models
8. Better stock headlamps (not exactly a "new" feature but the stock H/Ls are inadequate in my opinion)

There are a bunch of other features (heated/cooled glove box, light in glove box, puddle/take-me-home lamps, instantaneous F/E indicator, rain-sensitive wipers etc.) which other cars in this segment have but I don't need them on a regular basis. I've only listed those which I know I'll use every week, if not daily.

Originally Posted by vcx

The Pride guys says that GC is common issue with Civic's and 2010 model is much better than the previous models and car also has some metal sheet like( as told by Sales rep). Now come what I concurr its more of getting used to the car dynamics and know to handle it.

He's right about the 2009 model update w.r.t. GC and rear suspension.

Unless my understand is wrong and observation is poor, he's wrong about the metal sheet/mesh. It was and is the G-Con shell that gets scraped and there's no additional metal to protect that metal shell. I've looked at the underside of the car in the Pride Honda Service center and there is a small metal plate which protects part of the exhaust assembly. Usually that part would probably never come in touch with the ground unless a mountain passes exactly in between the wheels of your car. This plate got bent very slightly on the very second day of ownership (when I lost the chrome tips of the exhaust :(). But overall this metal plate sees very little "contact" compared to the G-Con shell's beams/bars.

I haven't observed the area under the engine bay enough. It should definitely help if there's some metal plate underneath this but I doubt it because that would impede airflow, and I've never "heard" anything hitting that area (*fingers crossed*).

Originally Posted by vcx

My usage is just as yours and drive btw srinagar colony to hitech city , so some bumper to bumper traffic but not all along.

How has been the FE in city and long drives?

Oh, Srinagar Colony is among the list of places I visit regularly as I've got relatives there. Maybe we should catch up some time.

F/E in city: Anywhere between 9.5 and 10.7 kmpl (calculated using tankful-to-tankful or yellow light-to-yellow light methods) - AC on 100% of the time

F/E on the highway (with a bit of city driving on either end, obviously): Anywhere between 11.4 and 13.8 kmpl - AC on 100% of the time; load between medium (2 people, light luggage) and heavy (4-5 people, full luggage); all kinds of road conditions (ghats, two-lane undivided with lots of overtaking, four-lane divided with lots of cruising)

Originally Posted by vcx

I do not want to regret for strech if I opt for Civic ( thats the only car appeals to be me in that segment), which I feel could happen if I pick up ANHC or Vento!

You won't regret buying the Civic. The rattles can get irritating but the positives of the car far outweigh that irritation. GC/lack of LET are something you'll just get used to as I've mentioned earlier.

Buy the A/T if you can (budget permitting, that is). On NH9, when I get stuck in crawling traffic for 30 mins to 1 hr sometimes, the left foot starts to hurt a little . You might encounter such traffic daily on your commute (Kavuri Hills jn to Hi-Tec City OR Filmnagar).

It's fun operating the manual shift but sometimes you just want those paddle shifts. In my case getting stuck in these jams is a bit of a rarity so I went with the V M/T.

Regards,
spadix

[vcx]

Originally Posted by spadix

Valid points. I think a Linea will last for 5-7 years easily. I want to keep the Civic around for 10-12 years!
====================
Regards,
spadix

Awesome , thank you for your patience taking time out to reply to my queries and thoughts.

I am doing a 2nd TD for Vento btw tomm and the day after( if also Pride called be with offer for 15.03 OTR for Polished metal metallic VMT, shall again check it out.

Looks I am keeping ANHC aside for now and keeping it btw Vento for the Diesel value ,much talked about awesome engine , qlty of the overall product and Civic for the X factor , move to next leauge and keeping its for long as 10 yrs..

Ya we should meet up it would be good, Drop me a note if you are around.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by vcx

Awesome , thank you for your patience taking time out to reply to my queries and thoughts.

I am doing a 2nd TD for Vento btw tomm and the day after( if also Pride called be with offer for 15.03 OTR for Polished metal metallic VMT, shall again check it out.

You're welcome! All the best with the TD and your decision.

The Vento being a modern car (and European) will have lots of other little thoughtful features. One of the things I came across when I was glancing through the "official" test drive thread here was that the rear passengers can slide the front co-driver's seat! This is a stunning feature (not that it alone should influence your buying decision, but this is just so thoughtful!).

15.03 OTR is a very good offer. I got mine at 15.21 in July after all discounts.

By the way you should subscribe to the Hyd TBHP meets thread in the Shifting Gears section. The Hyd TBHP "chapter" is very active and you'll find Ravveendrra and Avi also there on a regularl basis.

Regards,
spadix

[vcx]

Originally Posted by spadix

You're welcome! All the best with the TD and your decision.

The Vento being a modern car (and European) will have lots of other little thoughtful features. One of the things I came across when I was glancing through the "official" test drive thread here was that the rear passengers can slide the front co-driver's seat! This is a stunning feature (not that it alone should influence your buying decision, but this is just so thoughtful!).

15.03 OTR is a very good offer. I got mine at 15.21 in July after all discounts.

By the way you should subscribe to the Hyd TBHP meets thread in the Shifting Gears section. The Hyd TBHP "chapter" is very active and you'll find Ravveendrra and Avi also there on a regularl basis.

Regards,
spadix

My TD got postponed for tomm, acught with some work at office.However, my colleuage did took it today and he was very much impressed by the diesel variant. say the quality of car is great even the body is well built.

VW is offering 6 yrs under body warranty and claims no need to go for any teflon kindof treaments( seems cars are given paint protection treatement)

He did mention about very good a/c and rear vents and this lever for pushing the passenger seat from the rear.( its an intresting feature)

Suprisingly my colleuages claims that std audio on Vento is clean and sounds good.

But some hitches like no steering audio controls, no usb /bt supported audio, a hump in rear for 5th person( though rare) to be comfortable.

Like Honda, spare is no alloy . need to find more myself tomm.

I was impressed by the wonderful review on tbhp which has impacted my thinking for Vento and also few intially ownerships reviews flowing on tbhp.

Ya I shall subscribe for tbhp hyd meets.

Here's an intresting one. I am an old memebr of tbhp with id VC12 ( still can find it), but in 2008 and the silly part that this id was tagged to my offical work id.

After my long stint here , when changed gears and moved abroad just realized later that its not possible to retrive your pswd (which I forgot)w/o the email.

Afte many trials, realized that it better I join back with new Id so I am back as vcx( but been low key) with my travel has come down and now more at one place.

Look fwd to make it to one of the Hyd meets soon!

[dot]

Originally Posted by spadix

Or it could just be that shuvc's and my cars were manufactured on a Monday/Friday . For instance, BQ was tagged with my name on 19th July (Monday; my order with the dealership was recorded on 17th July, Saturday).

If you seriously think there is a manufacturing defect, then isn't it possible to invoke the warranty? BQ should be under warranty, no? One suggestion is, if you visit another city like Bangalore, maybe check it up with Honda there. Long shot I know, but Civic (BQ) deserves this! The plastic top cover of the shaft, behind the steering wheel and between the wiper and indicator stalks comes out with little pressure from nails. One can see the mechanicals below. Maybe one can tighten if anything needs to be tightened there.

Originally Posted by spadix

GC - let me assure you that once you master the technique, the Civic will absolutely surprise you with its manners over anything but the biggest, baddest bumps out there. Yes, there will be scrapes in certain unavoidable situations but thankfully they won't hurt the car much and you'll realize that in most cases it's bad driving that causes it. Let this not be a negative factor.

Lack of low-end torque -

If 15 lac is going to be a huge stretch, get a used Civic.

So true about bottoming out issue. So far I have never faced it. Yesterday I was driving around 70+ near Wakadewadi (Pune) and a ugly bump+ pothole suddenly cropped up. The front tyres crashed on the bump and went inside the pothole. By that time, I was applying brake and speed had come to around 30. The car came out without any underside scraping. I checked out the tyres and shock absorbers after sometime. No issue at all. Only my mind was hurt.

In AT variant there is no evidence of lack of torque, as so many others have also pointed out before. Below 10kmph, AT goes to 1st gear by default.

used Civic - Thats a TBHP secret!

[spadix]

Originally Posted by dot

If you seriously think there is a manufacturing defect, then isn't it possible to invoke the warranty? BQ should be under warranty, no? One suggestion is, if you visit another city like Bangalore, maybe check it up with Honda there. Long shot I know, but Civic (BQ) deserves this! The plastic top cover of the shaft, behind the steering wheel and between the wiper and indicator stalks comes out with little pressure from nails. One can see the mechanicals below. Maybe one can tighten if anything needs to be tightened there.

That's an interesting angle I didn't think of! I wonder if "rattles" are covered by warranty clauses, but it's worth a shot.

And yes, Bengaluru is only 7 hours away .

@vcx: Ah, sorry to hear about your ID SNAFU. These things hurt even though they aren't life-changing.

Yeah, give the Vento a good shot and then make your decision. I can assure you regarding long-term satisfaction with the Civic (despite any niggling issues) as can many others here.

Regards,
spadix

[dot]

Originally Posted by spadix

That's an interesting angle I didn't think of! I wonder if "rattles" are covered by warranty clauses, but it's worth a shot.

Glad you found this worthwhile. If the rattle is a result of something more serious, then the part can be replaced under warranty. For my Ikon, the engine belt was making noise. When Ford service's tinkering failed, they replaced the belt and noise disappeared for good. Car was still under warranty and I didn't have to pay one paisa. I suppose warranty clauses of Ford and Honda might be similar.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by dot

The plastic top cover of the shaft, behind the steering wheel and between the wiper and indicator stalks comes out with little pressure from nails. One can see the mechanicals below. Maybe one can tighten if anything needs to be tightened there.

Read this while sitting in the car. So I tried it. Nothing's loose in there.

I think both BQ and my car has a rattle within the steering boss.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by shuvc

Read this while sitting in the car. So I tried it. Nothing's loose in there.

I think both BQ and my car has a rattle within the steering boss.

BQ actually has a loose plastic cover! But the rattle is probably coming from within the steering boss as well because that cover doesn't vibrate/move easily even when loose. The service is only 20 days away now. Hopefully I'll be able to get to the bottom of this.

In the meantime, BQ's been pampered with some 3M love (CR70 on the front and RE35 all around including the rear - 11.2k INR in all) and is currently happily sunning herself in the car park. So while I planned better head lamps and tyres as the first set of upgrades for BQ it turned out window films pipped those to the post.

The car was left in a royal mess at the end of it all, though, so for the first time I took her to a professional car wash and clean (exterior and interior) yesterday and am extremely pleased with the results for only INR 270! Pride Honda Service does such a shoddy job in this area :(.

Regards,
spadix

[vcx]

Originally Posted by spadix

That's an interesting angle I didn't think of! I wonder if "rattles" are covered by warranty clauses, but it's worth a shot.

And yes, Bengaluru is only 7 hours away .

@vcx: Ah, sorry to hear about your ID SNAFU. These things hurt even though they aren't life-changing.

Yeah, give the Vento a good shot and then make your decision. I can assure you regarding long-term satisfaction with the Civic (despite any niggling issues) as can many others here.

Regards,
spadix

Spadix,

Done TD on vento (Sunday) , I felt the Diesel heart is indeed a winner, never felt any turbo lag , has good GC , one of the smooth gear shift on diesel variants, cabin feels well built and finished, the displays shows FE as 14KMPL, innovative gear shift indicator in this segment, remote key is hands down a winner like AUDI et al( also Fiat do have them) with remote all windows down and up, remote boot lid open, foldable key, good space at rear even after max pushed on front seats, looks calssy and the overall design from wht I have seen read abt Jetta and new passat are on same lines.


on the flip side find the road presence is low( no wow factor), design thats not negative nor good, just looks as polo in other rear view mirror, hump in the passenger section ( problem for 5th passenger whenever), dashboard too simple but well built.

Same day did looked at Jetta , I must says its one of those well built cars( just like a tank), 6 airbags and pertol variant is low on features

Yesterday Orion VW called up with an offer for Jetta that all inclusive Jetta trendline petrol is for 15.10 OTR with GPS 3.5 inch touchscreen etc..

My and wife has thought to give it timw till this Mar'11 to see other cars coming up and take a plunge....

In the mean, keenly shall follow you all to understand more!

As I am writing :

Head says=Vento for Diesel value and good engine built to last and German engineering

Heart: Civic, futuristic design, good handling and real feel that you have arrived!

Lets see how this saga truns with any twist in the story!