[Parm]

short summary on THAR:

Mechanically & Technically, a wonderfull vehicle, without a doubt!
Asthetically & egronmically, a big let down.

india is a land of extreme weather conditions, HOT summer, COLD winter, WET monsoon, LOVELY spring/fall.

so in what season, a ST & non AC thar is expected to be used?

i could see some people already want it as a daily driver and not a weekend vehicle, so HT & OEM AC is a need!

if it gets a removable/fixed HT & OE fitted AC, it could be a first car for many families!

i have changed my decision 3 times (NO, YES, NO) about Thar since this detailed review came into TBhp!

[getsurya]

these are not very flattering pics! I am sort of disappointed seeing rust on a display vehicle.

hopefully it is a one of case!

Like many others on this forum and in this country- I was eagerly waiting for the THAR! However, my waiting has been proven waste due to lots of regular M&M niggles.

Behram, while on one side you are saying that "we will do whatever we can to keep the customer first" for THAR the product's softer aspects do not match to the statement. Are you saying that there would be a V2 and we all should wait to buy the V2?

I am saying this as the INTERIORS, steering wheel position, paint quality(read rust), wiring exposure, ECM safety etc are a BIG LET DOWN to many of us. If you feel & treat that customers are for TRIAL & ERROR(TATA's automobile divisions philosophy-in my personal opinion) model, then it is not correct.

If THAR is a lifestyle vehicle, then it better meet the needs of a Lifestyle vehicle owner and not M&M's own definition. While I understand you had lots of budgetary constraints etc, it does not explain the finesse of underhood to the overhood cheapness

[slalom]

The Thar thread has been informative as well as entertaining , from all angles .

I though of not cribbing , but we have come far from the ages where we have to buy an ambassador from the showroom and take it directly to a workshop to get it welded and painted again so that it will not fall apart and looked better .

The first time when I saw the Thar, I was just looking at the mechanicals , as I have mentioned earlier , inspite of my driver pointing out the dash and the glove box I ignored it .
The second time , went for the "TD" and just saw the plastics and was shocked , the Amby had better plastics all around ;I now understood how a manufacturer's lack of coordination can tarnish a great product .
I wonder how the hard top will turn out .
The dealer can sell the vehicle to me but still has no clue about the AC fitment , in this information age I wonder how much time will it take to pass info from Mumabi to Kerala,M&M is amusing .
Hope M&M will clean up its act .
Vinod where are you ?

The drivetrain , the chassis is a smoothie , the IFS might impress us ,(we never know ) even old man emu might come up with something and turn the whole tide around , of course some $$ might have to be thrown in ..

Hope the Thar changes the scenario and impress us all .

cheers guys !!

[Ym-enjn]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

There is no bolero 4x4 which can be sold in tier one(BS-IV) cities.
Scorpio is way above 10L
So Mahindra Thar is the only 4x4 BS-IV vehicle by mahindra below 10L

Originally Posted by Jaggu

----
Yes but we wanted capable 4x4 tourers with AC and HT to make the longer trips and participate in OTR's. Hence many are waiting for news from M&M.

Atleast this time they will get it right on pricing front

What I want to say is every thing/vehicle/person has few things bad and few things good in them.. Nothing can be perfect.. Its upon us what we are looking for.. If we see what we have in Thar and stop seeing what it doesn't have then we will be more happy..

There is no end to the "we want" things. After HT and AC we would want a front facing rear seat.. {For longer distance with family you just cant go with side seats} then the luggage space at the back will be less we want to have space for long travel to keep goods, then it will become a long wheel base and ultimately a Bolero.. Then we want style, better interiors,more features and ABS Airbags and all things then it becomes a Scorpio.. You have to pay for everything man. The list will go endless.

So first enjoy what it is already having. MB, CJ3B or classic never came with HT and AC, still M&M have said we will get that soon.

Even I will buy when both things HT and AC are here. But that in no way takes away the credit for building such a nice machine..

As per one of my friend, two more Thar booked in our group and total 8 booked in Jaipur. M&M have assured delivery by end of Jan..

[SubuS]

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

What I want to say is every thing/vehicle/person has few things bad and few things good in them.. Nothing can be perfect.. Its upon us what we are looking for.. If we see what we have in Thar and stop seeing what it doesn't have then we will be more happy..
============
As per one of my friend, two more Thar booked in our group and total 8 booked in Jaipur. M&M have assured delivery by end of Jan..

Listen to this man - he makes a lot of sense. Buy it with the extra costs (about 1.5L) in mind as a 8.8L jeep, you won't be disappointed.

[KMT]

Ym-Enjn
You are correct, one has to pay for everything but I dont think people are asking for too much when they ask for Gypsy build quality on a 7L+ vehicle.

Hard core people will pick this version up 'as is' because they are Jeep loyalists (no choice) and for them this is still a step up (of sorts) from the comfort and ability of their current rides.

Lifestylers will keep away as this will certainly change their lifestyle, unfortunately in the wrong direction-
-your wife / gf will dump you (no ac/& dusty)
-your kids will curse you (side facing seats on a 140kph vehicle)
-your tinker/mechanic will fall in love with you- rust/suspension maintenance/ etc etc
- you will cycle to work (as this is going to be the easiest vehicle to break into and steal).

Maybe all the hype and expectation that Mr Behram created was too much and some of us expected too much from a co like M&M.

Anyway in the end the market will decide whether there is a V2 or not (personally I hope there is).

[somubj]

Originally Posted by KMT

Ym-Enjn
You are correct, one has to pay for everything but I dont think people are asking for too much when they ask for Gypsy build quality on a 7L+ vehicle.

=================
Anyway in the end the market will decide whether there is a V2 or not (personally I hope there is).

People are not expecting too much i guess, just 2 basic things - a/c and h/t which they deserve for a vehicle at this price. Any additional cost and they would prefer to buy a safari/Scorpio after adding little more moolah to the existing spend - this is for life stylers.

Jeepers are not forced to buy Thar Crde as the only option available, all enthusiasts already have their mean machines (remember someone else quoting this as well.) From what they already have, they would prefer a decent upgrade - a no hassle rig, which Thar can easily be if paid proper attention to by the manufacturers. They can even go for the di version which looks to be more "cost-effective".

Personally, i will book Thar tomorrow itself if the cost includes at least an a/c, forget the h/t. I am not an off-roader but do a little bit of trail driving though. Rust..etc can be taken care of, ignore the dash as well, some DIY can be done to fix the rough edges with minimal costs.

Mahindra folks: cost of providing a/c can be recovered with the extra sale that you will have.

[SubuS]

If all you need is an AC, that is barely a 15-20k fitment. I would think you are missing out on the fun ownership opportunity for saving very little money (compared to the whole package).

[shekaran]

As per from my friend's a/c spares shop :
there are 2 different types of compressors for sale (in pondicherry).
the widely used compressor is Sanden 507/508 series of 108cc.
1. complete import from USA - rs. 7,300/- and 2. assembled in china - rs. 4,900/-
2. unicla superking blower imported - rs. 13,000/- and 2. OE Indian - rs. 7,500/-
3. multiflow condenser 1418 size - rs. 1,700/-
4. JPI 120waats Fan - rs. 1,600/-
5. dryer - rs. 500/-
6. tube set - rs. 1,300/-
7. installation - rs. 2,500/-

So total A/C costing comes to Rs. 20,000/- to a max of 28,000/- depending on the location, installer, etc.,.
So anyone who takes a THAR add this 25k to your budget - for a chilling interiors.

Best Regards.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by SubuS

If all you need is an AC, that is barely a 15-20k fitment. I would think you are missing out on the fun ownership opportunity for saving very little money (compared to the whole package).

Its not about the money. Even at 30-40K a HVAC is a good deal inside this vehicle. However, when you buy a brand new vehicle and get AC fitted, you will lose your warranty. Nobody likes to lose warranty. Thats why irrespective of the cost, Mahindra has to offer HVAC themselves.
With an AC and HT even at 7L ex showroom the Thar will be a decent deal, considering that all other 4x4s with HT and AC cost 11-12L+

[SubuS]

You should confirm the warranty thing with Mahindra - because I did this for my Invader, and don't remember losing warranty. Infact the AC was a dealer fitment then.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

What I want to say is every thing/vehicle/person has few things bad and few things good in them..

I can talk for myself and i really did not expect Thar to be a perfect offroader. All i wanted was a better option than Gypsy for long distance commute but with decent offroadability and a VFM price. I have given the pro's and cons in my dilemma thread and concluded it also.

When i saw the real Thar i was honestly taken back by bad fit/finish. Suddenly i became a fan of Gypsy which costs me a lakh less and will offer everything except, ride quality and diesel economy. One lakh for me is a big amount for a second or third vehicle.

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

Nothing can be perfect.. Its upon us what we are looking for.. If we see what we have in Thar and stop seeing what it doesn't have then we will be more happy..

You are not at all stupid, what you are talking is true about 100% perfect. Nothing is! even life is not, but one needs to see value for what you are paying. For me Thar did not.

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

There is no end to the "we want" things. After HT and AC we would want a front facing rear seat..
=============
You have to pay for everything man. The list will go endless.

As i said i talk for myself and i still have the cheque book next to me. Give me AC & Alloys at the same price i will sign up. Not even HT. Then it will make sense to my VFM obsession

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

So first enjoy what it is already having. MB, CJ3B or classic never came with HT and AC, still M&M have said we will get that soon.

Dont you think M&M realized little late in the day that Thar will not fly off the counter without this. It is not because M&M wants to, but there is no option for them but to listen if they have to make it a better success than Classic in the long run.

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

Even I will buy when both things HT and AC are here. But that in no way takes away the credit for building such a nice machine..

Atleast am not shying away from giving credits where its required. Team indeed has done a great job pulling it off with whatever limitations they had. Its a great car no doubts in my mind.

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

As per one of my friend, two more Thar booked in our group and total 8 booked in Jaipur. M&M have assured delivery by end of Jan..

Very good news indeed, i think similarly people in hilly areas should see reasons to pick Thar up.

Originally Posted by SubuS

Listen to this man - he makes a lot of sense. Buy it with the extra costs (about 1.5L) in mind as a 8.8L jeep, you won't be disappointed.

8.8 Lakhs!! Are you serious, i can virtually build 2 jeeps or gypsies to perfection with that kind of money.

Originally Posted by somubj

People are not expecting too much i guess, just 2 basic things - a/c and h/t which they deserve for a vehicle at this price.

Originally Posted by somubj

From what they already have, they would prefer a decent upgrade - a no hassle rig, which Thar can easily be if paid proper attention to by the manufacturers. They can even go for the di version which looks to be more "cost-effective".

Yes exactly! Though i would prefer a Crde anyday.

Originally Posted by somubj

Personally, i will book Thar tomorrow itself if the cost includes at least an a/c, forget the h/t.
=============
Mahindra folks: cost of providing a/c can be recovered with the extra sale that you will have.

I am relieved that atleast one person in India share the same feeling like me.

Originally Posted by SubuS

If all you need is an AC, that is barely a 15-20k fitment. I would think you are missing out on the fun ownership opportunity for saving very little money (compared to the whole package).

Maruti 800 AC costs close to 21k just parts, do you think AC unit for Thar will be same? Both are AC ready vehicles mind you. EDIT I saw the update above. This is for a separate install with blower etc. Yes one can do that BUT if you want to retain the dash then cost will be much higher since one needs to buy from existing parts bin from OE manufacturer which is more expensive. OT: Quote is quite juicy though, usually install itself people charge around 4-5k, i know where to go when i get my gypsy.

EDIT 2 Quote seems too good to be true!!! We are getting ripped off here in BLR etc

At the end of the day people buy the whole package and is married to it for a while. I don't think we can ignore important factor like long drive comfort, an important and primary factor for buying Thar. Atleast i can not.

<Back to infinite loop!>

[2500cc]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Its not about the money. Even at 30-40K a HVAC is a good deal inside this vehicle. However, when you buy a brand new vehicle and get AC fitted, you will lose your warranty. Nobody likes to lose warranty. Thats why irrespective of the cost, Mahindra has to offer HVAC themselves.
With an AC and HT even at 7L ex showroom the Thar will be a decent deal, considering that all other 4x4s with HT and AC cost 11-12L+

For a 7L Ex-Showroom the OTR price would be around 8.2L.

As of now the OTR price for Bolero Vlx is 7.6L. If at all they launch Vlx with 4x4 setup, the price would be around 8.5L or tops at 9L. So the difference is only 70K. Do you think there would be any takers then ?

[DRC]

I am not a hard core jeeper. But I had convinced my self to buy a thar and become one after reading the 4x4 section of this forum.

When I saw the Thar at the auto show 2011 on sunday. It took the air out of mu enthu.

1. 8.11L for a jeep with fat tyres is way too much. The asking price is of a life style vehicle but the build is not. "we build jugad cars, and you build charecter fixing them" attitude is not acceptable by Mahindra.
2. Fit and finish is pathetic! It is not even at par with older jeeps I have seen.
3. It was better off with instruments mounted on a sheet metal on fire wall than the hacksaw cur dash board.
4. I was never able to engage turn indicators. Pushing it harder would only have broken the switch. IIANW, it is the same unit doing the duty on M800. MM might have gotten it from a local vendor for a cheap bargain.
5. I could not turn the steering wheel one complete round. My fingures would get stuck between the steering wheel and dashboard at the top.


OK, If Mahindra sells just the chassis and the cabin, just like Ashok Leyland trucks, I am willing to buy at 4L and fit the rest of the things like seats, dash, roll cage, etc at a good bus body builder. Let us appreciate them for their strength than beat them up for weaknesses.

[shekaran]

DRC sir, am in for this game. count +1 for this plan.
if mahindra gives me the bare chassis and engine, with the bare basic tub, i will also be very much happiest to build my jeep on that existing platform, according to my needs.